Sturm: Xs and Os - 3 Things from Atlanta

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think the more plausible explanation might be that the Coaching Staff instructed Weedon to get rid of the ball quick. That might be a situation where the OC says, we want to see, ideally, 3 seconds and the ball is gone. I can see that being said and I would understand the reasoning for it. Not saying that's what happened but I am saying that it would make sense to me if that is what was said. Of course the leash is going to be shorter for Weedon then it is for Tony. That only makes sense but regardless of who might have said what, the league now knows the blueprint. We gotta take some shots down the field but also, we can't be stupid and run 5 running plays in a half for minus yardage. If the running game is not producing, then we need to stick with it and not give up on it. We start panicking and going to the pass and all that does is add that much more pressure on Weedon, which he doesn't need. We have to stick with the run. Penalties and poor blocking against the pass rush also played a huge part in this but still no excuse for just 5 rushes. That's just a recipe for disaster IMO.

 

[xwalker]

On the one where the TE runs the post and he goes underneath, there is a defender in the passing lane.

That defender is staying short to defend against Dunbar catching the ball. Witten is well past the underneath defender at the point that Weeden throws the ball and would have been over 10 yards past the underneath defender if Weeden waits a fraction of a second to throw to Witten. The middle of the field where Witten is running is wide open.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What "in cut?"

It looks like he ran to the post but it is still an inside route as the actual goal post is in the middle of the field. The defender is sitting on it looking in the backfield for the throw.

People talk about how good quarterbacks will try and bait the underneath throw and try to drop it in window. Guys like Romo, Rodgers, and Warner do stuff like that so why can't Weeden? He sucks!

I'm guessing Weeden is told to not take any chances with double coverage and that is what that is. Witten crosses only a couple yards behind the underneath db. You cannot throw it low and you are asking for a touch throw over the middle. I'm fine with the real decision.

 

[xwalker]

I think the more plausible explanation might be that the Coaching Staff instructed Weedon to get rid of the ball quick. That might be a situation where the OC says, we want to see, ideally, 3 seconds and the ball is gone. I can see that being said and I would understand the reasoning for it. Not saying that's what happened but I am saying that it would make sense to me if that is what was said. Of course the leash is going to be shorter for Weedon then it is for Tony. That only makes sense but regardless of who might have said what, the league now knows the blueprint. We gotta take some shots down the field but also, we can't be stupid and run 5 running plays in a half for minus yardage. If the running game is not producing, then we need to stick with it and not give up on it. We start panicking and going to the pass and all that does is add that much more pressure on Weedon, which he doesn't need. We have to stick with the run. Penalties and poor blocking against the pass rush also played a huge part in this but still no excuse for just 5 rushes. That's just a recipe for disaster IMO.

That makes sense in general; however, on the play in the Gif, Weeden could have thrown to Witten at basically the same time that he threw to Dunbar. Maybe he waits for Witten to take one more step.

 

[RunDMC]

Of course not............ but when you go an entire freaking game without getting any plays down the field, especially when tape shows he had multiple opportunities, then it's time to lay some blame at the feet of the backup and maybe consider finding another back up to do his job.

Yeah I'm sure the great Matt Cassell will hit every open receiver if he gets in the game.

 

[CowboyGil]

If I were Witten, I would be more upset about the second play where Weedwn throws it high, hanging him out to dry. When Witten stayed down for a few seconds I was like "Oh shish-kabob! Get up Jason!!"

 

[Kevinicus]

It looks like he ran to the post but it is still an inside route as the actual goal post is in the middle of the field. The defender is sitting on it looking in the backfield for the throw.

People talk about how good quarterbacks will try and bait the underneath throw and try to drop it in window. Guys like Romo, Rodgers, and Warner do stuff like that so why can't Weeden? He sucks!

I'm guessing Weeden is told to not take any chances with double coverage and that is what that is. Witten crosses only a couple yards behind the underneath db. You cannot throw it low and you are asking for a touch throw over the middle. I'm fine with the real decision.

Sitting is the key word. Witten was behind him, and he was looking back at the RB in front of him. The LB has no shot at Witten. It is not a window, it's the opening for hanger doors.

 

[conner01]

What're you doin' this Sunday night?

Throwing to the open guy
You don't want Weeden throwing into coverage but in the Falcons game there were open recievers down the field
That's the throws I want him to take

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That makes sense in general; however, on the play in the Gif, Weeden could have thrown to Witten at basically the same time that he threw to Dunbar. Maybe he waits for Witten to take one more step.

I agree. If not exactly at the same time, then a fraction later but still, within safety margin of avoiding a sack. The thing of it is that if this is what he is being told and this is what they are working on in practice, then it's likely that Weedon is simply going to go to the first open option he sees. That's not what Tony does and we get on him for that when he ends up taking a trap but the truth of the matter is that good NFL QBs will sometimes hold the ball in order to go down field with it. This is part of knowing the guys you are playing with. Tony trusts that Witt or Dez or whomever will find a way to get open and they trust that those guys can beat whomever is on the field defensively. Weedon is not going to do that because he doesn't have that same experience with these guys. It is what it is and only more playing time will solve this, assuming Weedon gets the opportunity. We are going to drop some games we shouldn't because of this but this is what it means to develop a new QB. Some people on this board don't know what it's like to have to do that because We've had Tony for a good length of time now but anybody who has been around to have to go through changes at QB (and I know you have been around long enough) knows that this is what you have to deal with. Weedon will eventually be better for it and so will the team.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That defender is staying short to defend against Dunbar catching the ball. Witten is well past the underneath defender at the point that Weeden throws the ball and would have been over 10 yards past the underneath defender if Weeden waits a fraction of a second to throw to Witten. The middle of the field where Witten is running is wide open.

We cannot read the dbs mind although your soothsaying is always fun if mindlessly and obviously one sided. Fact is the db is in position to do both at that point in the progression. Sure Romo likely looks the db off underneath and goes up top. Weeden isn't Romo though. He is much more mechanical and on a leash. Dude still had 10 YPA and an 85 rating anyway which should be more than enough.

If we can get dink and dunk 10 YPA that should mean a ton of first downs particularly if the OL can get it's head out of it's collective butt and start blocking as a unit. if the defensive line can get healthy we might win some games easily.

The reality of the play we are arguing is 4th and forever because of a string of penalties and negative poor blocking plays. People want to blame Weeden for not bailing the team out. I understand it but I must say that it evokes Nietzsche's sentiment when he wrote Human, All Too Human.

 

[Sydla]

It looks like he ran to the post but it is still an inside route as the actual goal post is in the middle of the field. The defender is sitting on it looking in the backfield for the throw.

People talk about how good quarterbacks will try and bait the underneath throw and try to drop it in window. Guys like Romo, Rodgers, and Warner do stuff like that so why can't Weeden? He sucks!

I'm guessing Weeden is told to not take any chances with double coverage and that is what that is. Witten crosses only a couple yards behind the underneath db. You cannot throw it low and you are asking for a touch throw over the middle. I'm fine with the real decision.

I think you are really overanalyzing that.

If your backup QB can't make a fairly easy throw like that, then he shouldn't be your backup. Witten is wide open.

 

[Sydla]

Yeah I'm sure the great Matt Cassell will hit every open receiver if he gets in the game.

He might (likely) suck too. But we have now seen Weeden apparently can't or won't or isn't allowed to challenge defenders down the field.

So try the next guy.

 

[Sydla]

We cannot read the dbs mind although your soothsaying is always fun if mindlessly and obviously one sided. Fact is the db is in position to do both at that point in the progression. Sure Romo likely looks the db off underneath and goes up top. Weeden isn't Romo though. He is much more mechanical and on a leash. Dude still had 10 YPA and an 85 rating anyway which should be more than enough.

If we can get dink and dunk 10 YPA that should mean a ton of first downs particularly if the OL can get it's head out of it's collective butt and start blocking as a unit. if the defensive line can get healthy we might win some games easily.

The reality of the play we are arguing is 4th and forever because of a string of penalties and negative poor blocking plays. People want to blame Weeden for not bailing the team out. I understand it but I must say that it evokes Nietzsche's sentiment when he wrote Human, All Too Human.

We don't have to read the DB's mind.

He's already trailing the play. The other S is 10+ yards away outside the other hash.

The LB, breaks for Dunbar.

Witten is about as open as one could get against that defense. If you can't expect your QB, even a backup, to make that throw................ we are in deep trouble. With a backup, you get few chances to take advantage of plays down the field. And if you just pass ones like that up, you are going to be in a lot of trouble. That's not a particularly difficult throw to think your backup QB can make.

 

[xwalker]

Sitting is the key word. Witten was behind him, and he was looking back at the RB in front of him. The LB has no shot at Witten. It is not a window, it's the opening for hanger doors.

We cannot read the dbs mind although your soothsaying is always fun if mindlessly and obviously one sided. Fact is the db is in position to do both at that point in the progression. Sure Romo likely looks the db off underneath and goes up top. Weeden isn't Romo though. He is much more mechanical and on a leash. Dude still had 10 YPA and an 85 rating anyway which should be more than enough.

If we can get dink and dunk 10 YPA that should mean a ton of first downs particularly if the OL can get it's head out of it's collective butt and start blocking as a unit. if the defensive line can get healthy we might win some games easily.

The reality of the play we are arguing is 4th and forever because of a string of penalties and negative poor blocking plays. People want to blame Weeden for not bailing the team out. I understand it but I must say that it evokes Nietzsche's sentiment when he wrote Human, All Too Human.

We don't have to read the DB's mind.

He's already trailing the play. The other S is 10+ yards away outside the other hash.

The LB, breaks for Dunbar.

Witten is about as open as one could get against that defense. If you can't expect your QB, even a backup, to make that throw................ we are in deep trouble. With a backup, you get few chances to take advantage of plays down the field. And if you just pass ones like that up, you are going to be in a lot of trouble. That's not a particularly difficult throw to think your backup QB can make.

That is not a touch pass to Witten. The LB to too far underneath to be an issue.

If there was any issue with the LB a pump fake to Dunbar would have that LB up on Dunbar instantly.

The LB was moving towards the sideline as Witten was moving towards the middle of the field. The LB is taking himself out of the throwing lane to Witten.

The LB appears to start forward before Weeden's arm comes forward.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think you are really overanalyzing that.

If your backup QB can't make a fairly easy throw like that, then he shouldn't be your backup. Witten is wide open.

Weeden reads Witten as he is crossing behind the DB who is back pedaling. You want him to stare it down and there is nothing keeping the DB from turning and running like they drill ad nauseum? No.

I get what you are saying. When he came off Witten the db committed hard underneath. He could have gone back over the top and it is something Romo does all the time. Instead Weeden went to the next progression who was 'open' and didn't do the playmaker thing.

That being said if Weeden can be that accurate and get 10 YPA week in and week out, I like our chances. Weeden didn't make your play but neither did he **** the bed. The OL and defense needs to step up.

 

[xwalker]

Weeden reads Witten as he is crossing behind the DB who is back pedaling. You want him to stare it down and there is nothing keeping the DB from turning and running like they drill ad nauseum? No.

I get what you are saying. When he came off Witten the db committed hard underneath. He could have gone back over the top and it is something Romo does all the time. Instead Weeden went to the next progression who was 'open' and didn't do the playmaker thing.

That being said if Weeden can be that accurate and get 10 YPA week in and week out, I like our chances. Weeden didn't make your play but neither did he **** the bed. The OL and defense needs to step up.

Always throwing underneath allowed the defense to crowd the line. That resulted in not being able to run. Running uses up the clock and keeps the defense off the field. The defense was short handed and needed to be off the field more.

Not making the throw like the one to Witten might not seem like a big deal when you look at it in a vacuum; however, when you look at the big picture it is indeed a big deal.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We don't have to read the DB's mind.

He's already trailing the play. The other S is 10+ yards away outside the other hash.

The LB, breaks for Dunbar.

Witten is about as open as one could get against that defense. If you can't expect your QB, even a backup, to make that throw................ we are in deep trouble. With a backup, you get few chances to take advantage of plays down the field. And if you just pass ones like that up, you are going to be in a lot of trouble. That's not a particularly difficult throw to think your backup QB can make.

The read is made as the underneath DB is still backpedaling. Witten had a guy trailing on his hip as well. Sure when Weeden comes off the db charges but who is to say that the DB doesn't turn and run if he stares Witten down instead? He only looks to have the middle wide open like that because of how the underneath db reacts to Weeden coming off Witten. He sold out to charge Dunbar hard. Sure the throw to Witten was there then but who is to say the next step in Weeden's progression wasn't to flip his hips and look at the other side of the field or even more likely 'get rid of the ball.'

 

[vaturkey]

Wonder if Weeden has ever heard the concept of "throw a guy open"? Me thinks not.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Always throwing underneath allowed the defense to crowd the line. That resulted in not being able to run. Running uses up the clock and keeps the defense off the field. The defense was short handed and needed to be off the field more.

Not making the throw like the one to Witten might not seem like a big deal when you look at it in a vacuum; however, when you look at the big picture it is indeed a big deal.

And yet the 5 TFL were from DL and LB. We've already seen Solial blow up a run in detail. I find your narrative AM radio fueled and suspect.

 

[TheDude]

Since everyone is entrenched in their position, may I ask

CAN WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LAST DRIVE - DOWN 11 WITH 3 MINUTES TO GO - DALLAS SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR DOWNFIELD RECEIVERS OR SIDELINE ROUTES TO PRESERVE CLOCK?

Does anyone think this is the time to checkdown in the middle of the field?