Sunday's Super Bowl proves...

[COfWaBnOY]

like I've always said ..... PRESSURE KILLS!! So I ask this:

What would it take to trade up to St Louis for the #2 pick? Our two #1's? With the #2 pick take Chris Long or Glenn Dorsey, the one Miami doesn't take.

Anyway, if we got Dorsey we would've:

RE-Ratliff/Canty/Bowen
NT-Dorsey/Johnson
LE-Spears/Hatcher
SLB-Ellis/Spencer
MILB-James/Carpenter
MOLB-Ayodele/Burnett
WLB-Ware

If we got Long we would've:

RE-Long/Canty/Bowen
NT-Ratliff/Johnson
LE-Spears/Hatcher
SLB-Ellis/Spencer
MILB-James/Carpenter
MOLB-Ayodele/Burnett
WLB-Ware


Even with the pressure they had this year, either one of those lineup should be even better. Also, the #2 pick will be cheaper than the Miami #1 and about the same as both our #1's, I'm guessing.

 

[dalboy]

they would ask for more

 

[COfWaBnOY]

Spears and/or Carpenter?? That would free up even more money huh..?

 

[baj1dallas]

i kinda like ferguson back in the middle myself...canty and ratliff on the ends and spencer/ware/ellis outside....

 

[BigDPlayer]

This is a great post. THE singular reason the NY Giants are the champs is because of their defensive line pressure and effective blitzes. Look at their secondary...nothing special at all. It is upfront pressure that counts.

When Dallas won the superbowls in the 70s and 90s, it was our D LINE that was monstrous and effective. Sure we had Deion... but only for one of the titles. It was Haley, Maryland, Casillas, Lett, Hennings, et. al. that made it happen.

Anyone remember the now famous quote from Al Davis upon learning Dallas acquired Charles Haley via free agency? "Congratulations, you just won the Super Bowl".

Our offense is fine, sure we need a young WR or two and a backup RB to spell The Barbarian.

My 'fear' is that JJ and co. will be enamored with a stud CB or two... what this SB win, and our OWN history shows, is that another stud D lineman or OLB would be what puts us over the top. IMHO.

Great post...!

 

[COfWaBnOY]

i kinda like ferguson back in the middle myself...canty and ratliff on the ends and spencer/ware/ellis outside....

I didn't for get about Ferguson, I just thought that Ratliff played NT VERY well this year. If Dorsey was the one we got we could do without him. If it were Long, might really have to look at Ferguson then. IF the cap hit is worth it let him go, if not by all mean keep him. I'm not saying I don't think he can still play. Lineups might look that this.

If we got Dorsey we would've:

RE-Ratliff/Canty/Bowen
NT-Dorsey/Johnson
LE-Spears/Hatcher
SLB-Ellis/Spencer
MILB-James/Carpenter
MOLB-Ayodele/Burnett
WLB-Ware

Like I said, no need for Ferguson IMO. Do need someone to spell Ware and Spears/Hatcher however.

If we got Long we would've:

RE-Long/Canty/Bowen
NT-Ferguson/Johnson
LE-Ratliff/Spears/Hatcher
SLB-Ellis/Spencer
MILB-James/Carpenter
MOLB-Ayodele/Burnett
WLB-Ware

Ferguson in this case makes since, IMO. Also, still need someone to spell Ware.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Interesting read but I can't see us moving all the way up there just to get Long or Dorsey.

I'm not saying it would be a bad move, I'm not questioning anything about it, I just don't see it happening.

 

[TheCount]

You know what else the Giants did? They didn't give up two first round picks to get Osi or Justin Tuck, even Strahan was a 2nd round pick.

You can find "heat bringers" without selling your future. They DID however, draft Aaron Ross in the first round to improve their secondary and Steve Smith (who we last saw catching huge passes in the playoffs) to improve their aging receiver core in the 2nd round. Sounds familiar, I know.

Let's see, We've got Ware, Spencer, Ellis, Canty, Ratliff and even on ocassion Spears to bring heat, do we really need to give up two firsts to get another guy at end or tackle who will end up getting maybe 3-5 sacks the entire season in a 3-4 defense? Probably not.

We've already moved quite a few picks to get the guys we have on our front 7, do we really need to keep doing it?

We need to looks for those guys in the later rounds, just like we found Ratliff.

 

[Doomsday101]

Well then what did last years Colts and Bears SB prove? I'm all in favor of trying to get more out of the pass rush but this gets to be a bit funny after every season to look at the SB as if it proves something and that our draft should reflect that the past winner of the SB. I like Dorsey and would love Long but moving up to the top 5 would be very costly.

 

[Woods]

You know what else the Giants did? They didn't give up two first round picks to get Osi or Justin Tuck, even Strahan was a 2nd round pick.

You can find "heat bringers" without selling your future. They DID however, draft Aaron Ross in the first round to improve their secondary and Steve Smith (who we last saw catching huge passes in the playoffs) to improve their aging receiver core in the 2nd round. Sounds familiar, I know.

Let's see, We've got Ware, Spencer, Ellis, Canty, Ratliff and even on ocassion Spears to bring heat, do we really need to give up two firsts to get another guy at end or tackle who will end up getting maybe 3-5 sacks the entire season in a 3-4 defense? Probably not.

We've already moved quite a few picks to get the guys we have on our front 7, do we really need to keep doing it?

We need to looks for those guys in the later rounds, just like we found Ratliff.

Agreed.

We can also pick up an ILB in FA who has some pass rushing skills as well.

I really hope we don't trade up that high. It will be prohibitive.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

You know what else the Giants did? They didn't give up two first round picks to get Osi or Justin Tuck, even Strahan was a 2nd round pick.

You can find "heat bringers" without selling your future. They DID however, draft Aaron Ross in the first round to improve their secondary and Steve Smith (who we last saw catching huge passes in the playoffs) to improve their aging receiver core in the 2nd round. Sounds familiar, I know.

Let's see, We've got Ware, Spencer, Ellis, Canty, Ratliff and even on ocassion Spears to bring heat, do we really need to give up two firsts to get another guy at end or tackle who will end up getting maybe 3-5 sacks the entire season in a 3-4 defense? Probably not.

We've already moved quite a few picks to get the guys we have on our front 7, do we really need to keep doing it?

We need to looks for those guys in the later rounds, just like we found Ratliff.

Agreed. Totally. I was going to say more in my response but I wouldn't have been as spot on as this and thought it might lead more to an argument, rather than a difference of opinion.

Good work.

 

[btcutter]

Big difference in the defense schemes in G men and Cowboys of the 70's and 90's. 4-3 depends on front 4 to get pressure on QB. 3-4 depends on LBs to get to QB for the most part. DE/NT in 3-4 ALWAYS have lesser pressures and sacks that their counter parts in 4-3 because their responsibilities are vastly different (that is regardless of Phillips 3/4 or Parcells 3/4).

If you want pressure in 3-4, get yourself a NT who simply can't be moved and constantly tie up 2 blockers so OL can't get to your LBs, then get more athletic ILBs who CAN blitz and cover (easier said then done) and couple them with our current players...........this D can be VERY good (assuming we get some help at CB).

 

[sago1]

FYI: We acquired Charles Haley in a trade with the 49ers in 92, before FA. The 49ers wanted to get rid of Haley because he was seen as a troublemaker and they also hoped he'd pose similar problems for the the Cowboys whom they saw as their biggest competitor to winning the SB. Guess what, Haley not only wasn't a problem but was the final big piece of the defense.

 

[COfWaBnOY]

This is a great post. THE singular reason the NY Giants are the champs is because of their defensive line pressure and effective blitzes. Look at their secondary...nothing special at all. It is upfront pressure that counts.....

That's what I'm thinking. With the pressure they got this year add Dorsey or Long and it should be even better. It's just a fact PRESSURE KILLS! By the way thanks for the compliment.

Interesting read but I can't see us moving all the way up there just to get Long or Dorsey.

I'm not saying it would be a bad move, I'm not questioning anything about it, I just don't see it happening.

As much as I would like to see it done, I'm with you on I don't think it will happen. IMO it could make a good defense a very good defense.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

And that relates to 3-4 ends and DT's, how?

 

[austintodallas]

You know what else the Giants did? They didn't give up two first round picks to get Osi or Justin Tuck, even Strahan was a 2nd round pick.

You can find "heat bringers" without selling your future. They DID however, draft Aaron Ross in the first round to improve their secondary and Steve Smith (who we last saw catching huge passes in the playoffs) to improve their aging receiver core in the 2nd round. Sounds familiar, I know.

Let's see, We've got Ware, Spencer, Ellis, Canty, Ratliff and even on ocassion Spears to bring heat, do we really need to give up two firsts to get another guy at end or tackle who will end up getting maybe 3-5 sacks the entire season in a 3-4 defense? Probably not.

We've already moved quite a few picks to get the guys we have on our front 7, do we really need to keep doing it?

We need to looks for those guys in the later rounds, just like we found Ratliff.

That's a great post.

 

[BlueStar II]

Well then what did last years Colts and Bears SB prove? I'm all in favor of trying to get more out of the pass rush but this gets to be a bit funny after every season to look at the SB as if it proves something and that our draft should reflect that the past winner of the SB. I like Dorsey and would love Long but moving up to the top 5 would be very costly.

:starspin Good point, and I certainly agree, moving up high enough to grab Long would be too costly.

 

[Oh_Canada]

I would rather not move up, but instead find ourselves a big nose a little later in the draft (Frank Okam comes to mind), because as others have mentioned finding a monster nose tackle will help our blitz schemes tremendously. The other benefit to drafting a NT is that it will eventually allow for Ratliff to play the end where he can be even more disruptive.
In the end....pressure DOES kill and can cover up a whole lot of warts in your secondary if you can do it consistently.

 

[COfWaBnOY]

You know what else the Giants did? They didn't give up two first round picks to get Osi or Justin Tuck, even Strahan was a 2nd round pick.

You can find "heat bringers" without selling your future. They DID however, draft Aaron Ross in the first round to improve their secondary and Steve Smith (who we last saw catching huge passes in the playoffs) to improve their aging receiver core in the 2nd round. Sounds familiar, I know.

Let's see, We've got Ware, Spencer, Ellis, Canty, Ratliff and even on ocassion Spears to bring heat, do we really need to give up two firsts to get another guy at end or tackle who will end up getting maybe 3-5 sacks the entire season in a 3-4 defense? Probably not.

We've already moved quite a few picks to get the guys we have on our front 7, do we really need to keep doing it?

We need to looks for those guys in the later rounds, just like we found Ratliff.

Point taken. BUT the receiver core can be addressed in FA. I think B Berrian is the answer. Not to pricey and would look alot like the Harper-Irvin combo of the 90's. The main problem in the secondary is Williams, and Reeves. They could always.....ahh.....like I said ..... "Point taken"

 

[big dog cowboy]

What would it take to trade up to St Louis for the #2 pick?

More than it's worth. We are not one player away on offense or defense.