Tavon Austin/draft strategy

[DFWJC]

Exactly. I love Sly, but he is Hatcher and Austin is Percy Harvin.

For one thing, we don't know about either at the NFL level.
So in a redraft, is Jason Hatcher the 18th-20th pick in the draft?
Without either playing an NFL down, you just downgraded Sly and turned Tavon in to a Pro Bowl player.

I'm not saying Tavon should not be rated a few slots higher than Sly. But as prospects they both grade out pretty good.

Sly looks almost just like Sheldon Richardson. Same size, speed, and agility...without the questionable attitude.

I'm not sure who Tavon looks like in the NFL.
He's way smaller than Harvin.

I'm not saying he won't be very good, but you guys are making him all world based on a college career playing against absolutely horrible defenses.

 

[visionary]

For one thing, we don't know about either at the NFL level.
So in a redraft, is Jason Hatcher the 18th-20th pick in the draft?
Without either playing an NFL down, you just downgraded Sly and turned Tavon in to a Pro Bowl player.

I'm not saying Tavon should not be rated a few slots higher than Sly. But as prospects they both grade out pretty good.

Sly looks almost just like Sheldon Richardson. Same size, speed, and agility...without the questionable attitude.

I'm not sure who Tavon looks like in the NFL.
He's way smaller than Harvin.

I'm not saying he won't be very good, but you guys are making him all world based on a college career playing against absolutely horrible defenses.

thank you for being the voice of reason

between posts recommending we take austin and/or lacy and/or "nuke", this place is going nuts

it is the jerry jones syndrome: forget about building a team, just go for the shiniest toy

 

[TheRomoSexual]

thank you for being the voice of reason

between posts recommending we take austin and/or lacy and/or "nuke", this place is going nuts

it is the jerry jones syndrome: forget about building a team, just go for the shiniest toy

It'd be nice if you posted actual substance as opposed to cliches'.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

For one thing, we don't know about either at the NFL level.
So in a redraft, is Jason Hatcher the 18th-20th pick in the draft?
Without either playing an NFL down, you just downgraded Sly and turned Tavon in to a Pro Bowl player.

I'm not saying Tavon should not be rated a few slots higher than Sly. But as prospects they both grade out pretty good.

Sly looks almost just like Sheldon Richardson. Same size, speed, and agility...without the questionable attitude.

I'm not sure who Tavon looks like in the NFL.
He's way smaller than Harvin.

I'm not saying he won't be very good, but you guys are making him all world based on a college career playing against absolutely horrible defenses.

Tavon is not a "few slots" higher on my board. From a pure talent perspective, he's top ten whereas Sly is around 25. A significant difference.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

It'd be nice if you posted actual substance as opposed to cliches'.

Tunnel Visionary?

 

[DFWJC]

Tavon is not a "few slots" higher on my board. From a pure talent perspective, he's top ten whereas Sly is around 25. A significant difference.

Fair enough
Stick to your guns. If you have him rated top ten, that's your board. It explains some of your passion for the guy. Maybe 1 in 20 people would rank Tavon top 10. You just happen to beone of them.

Kiper ranks them 15th and 16th respectively, fwiw.

Mayock has Williams barely behind Richardson--so 3rd best DT.
He has Tavon as the 3rd best WR.

It really is an eye-of-the-beholder thing.

Most everyone has Tavon a bit higher than Sly and both are rising. Some (not most) even have him going as many as 10 slots higher. There are some (ex. Charles Davis) who have Sly ahead of Tavor, but not too many.
But we are not talking Percy Harvin vs Jason Hatcher, imo.

 

[Gaede]

it is the jerry jones syndrome: forget about building a team, just go for the shiniest toy

I understand where you're coming from, but the mentality around here that the Cowboys absolutely 'need' an offensive lineman with the first round pick is a horrible approach to the draft and just as foolish as only targeting the 'shiniest toy'.

 

[visionary]

It'd be nice if you posted actual substance as opposed to cliches'.

this is a laughable post (but par for the course for you)

you are posting your opinion and i am posting mine

let me know when an NFL team hires you as a scout so the the so-called "substance" you post actually amounts to more than fluff

 

[visionary]

I understand where you're coming from, but the mentality around here that the Cowboys absolutely 'need' an offensive lineman with the first round pick is a horrible approach to the draft and just as foolish as only targeting the 'shiniest toy'.

i agree with you that going in saying "we will draft OL in rd 1" is the wrong way to approach things

but that is not what i am saying

in a draft that is deep and talented at OL, DL, and safety and where we can get value for all 3 in the first 3 rounds, i dont think it is wrong for a team to say "our 3 biggest needs are OL, DL, and safety and that is where this draft is the most talented and deepest so lets stack our board by value and see if we cant find a player on OL, DL, and safety that we can pick in rounds 1, 2, and 3"

so we are not going into a particular round focusing on one position, rather trying to target good players at one of several positions that are known to be deep in this draft

this year we can actually pick impact players at positions of need without having to reach

so, round 1, 2, and 3 can each be OL/DL/safety based on our draft board valuation

the reality is that teams do (and should) take need into consideration when putting together their board and making their pick, it should just not be the over-riding factor where you are reaching for a player you dont value based purely on need

constantly putting aside the trench players in favor of the WOW players is just as flawed as the opposite

 

[TheRomoSexual]

i agree with you that going in saying "we will draft OL in rd 1" is the wrong way to approach things

but that is not what i am saying

in a draft that is deep and talented at OL, DL, and safety and where we can get value for all 3 in the first 3 rounds, i dont think it is wrong for a team to say "our 3 biggest needs are OL, DL, and safety and that is where this draft is the most talented and deepest so lets stack our board by value and see if we cant find a player on OL, DL, and safety that we can pick in rounds 1, 2, and 3"

so we are not going into a particular round focusing on one position, rather trying to target good players at one of several positions that are known to be deep in this draft

this year we can actually pick impact players at positions of need without having to reach

so, round 1, 2, and 3 can each be OL/DL/safety based on our draft board valuation

the reality is that teams do (and should) take need into consideration when putting together their board and making their pick, it should just not be the over-riding factor where you are reaching for a player you dont value based purely on need

constantly putting aside the trench players in favor of the WOW players is just as flawed as the opposite

This is exactly how bad teams draft.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

This is exactly how bad teams draft.

I have said it before and I will say it again.

That is the type of mentality that got us Players like...Quincy Carter, Tony Dixon, Kareem Lattimore, Dwayne Goodrich and Ekuban.

 

[visionary]

This is exactly how bad teams draft.

hhmmmmm... sounds like a cliche that lacks substance

 

[visionary]

I have said it before and I will say it again.

That is the type of mentality that got us Players like...Quincy Carter, Tony Dixon, Kareem Lattimore, Dwayne Goodrich and Ekuban.

you honesty cant see the difference between taking quincy carter vs taking sly williams or bjoern werner over tavon austin or eddie lacy or "Nuke"?

maybe you should read what each poster is posting before forming an opinion

 

[NeonDeion21]

I have said it before and I will say it again.

That is the type of mentality that got us Players like...Quincy Carter, Tony Dixon, Kareem Lattimore, Dwayne Goodrich and Ekuban.

Could not agree more.

 

[Tejano15]

I have said it before and I will say it again.

That is the type of mentality that got us Players like...Quincy Carter, Tony Dixon, Kareem Lattimore, Dwayne Goodrich and Ekuban.

I agree, if the man is the best man on the board with no trade partners, take him. It seems as we are looking for a WR in this draft because of our injuries. I have the feeling they truly just do not trust Miles Austin will be healthy. Danny Coale was hurt, and Beasley looked great but he needs to get stronger.

But this is all moot, he won't be there at 18, I think he goes top 10. Browns, Bills, Jets, all could use him. Then you have Bucs at 13 and if he gets by there Rams will for sure take him. Wild card is NO with Payton back, that would be a scary thought.

 

[DFWJC]

I really does come down to how the Cowboys' board looks as the 18th pick (and then the 47th pick..and so on) approaches.

Just remember guys, they group these players. They may have a "list" but that list is broken into tiers. The issue of reaching for need does really not apply until you cross tiers groupings. Tiers allow you to much better match value and need....but, yes, value is a must.
They can't afford to miss on these early picks.

The draft can't get here soon enough.
For some reason, this is killing me more than most years!

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

you honesty cant see the difference between taking quincy carter vs taking sly williams or bjoern werner over tavon austin or eddie lacy or "Nuke"?

maybe you should read what each poster is posting before forming an opinion

I have 20/20 vision. For someone named visionary you only seem to see things from your perspective.

You don't reach for a player like Sly at that spot. Now if YOU would have read you would have seen that I did mention players like Sly and Werner. Werner you can make an argument that he is slated around the same or higher than Tavon. I don't think you can make the same argument for Tavon vs S.Williams. I think Tavon is graded much higher.

 

[DFWJC]

Just a reminder;
Kiper's latest Big Board has Tavon Austin at 15 and Sylvester Williams at 16.

After Williiams' pro day, Charles Davis now puts him ahead of Austin.

I know, that's just two opinions.

I'm not really arguing for Williams here, just saying..

 

[Idgit]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round

Anybody in retrospect have a problem with us taking Dez Bryant over the likes of Brandon Graham or Derrick Morgan?

Not bashing those players, but in the draft, if you've got a shot at what you think is a special player, you add him, regardless of his position. Those guys can't be found elsewhere.

Solid contributors are available in VFA every offseason. If you're not targeting someone you think can be special early, you're probably making a mistake.

 

[visionary]

I have 20/20 vision. For someone named visionary you only seem to see things from your perspective.

You don't reach for a player like Sly at that spot. Now if YOU would have read you would have seen that I did mention players like Sly and Werner. Werner you can make an argument that he is slated around the same or higher than Tavon. I don't think you can make the same argument for Tavon vs S.Williams. I think Tavon is graded much higher.

Mike Mayock:

austin #2 WR behind cordarelle patterson (who may go in top 15)

sly will #3 DT behind Floyd and Richardson (who will both go top 10-15)

bjoern werner #2 4-3 DE behind ansah

Mel Kiper:

Werner #13
Austin #15
Sly Will #16

Charles Davis:

Werner #21
Sly Will #23
Austin #27

clearly, based on projections of draft guru's austin is not "rated much higher", werner is clearly higher (and he was available in the post i responded to and was my option #2 after trading down) and austin is maybe a little higher by some but neck and neck by others

neither of us knows where actual NFL teams rank him (unless you are speaking to the janitor again)

we are NOT REACHING for a player like Werner or Sly as even YOU should now be able to see