Tennessee Titans ideal trade target from the Dallas Cowboys

Stash

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Dallas would not pay him top money had he played poorly. The pick only means something if the player actually performs to that level.

No, a first round pick is a first round pick. It's value is huge. It gives a team a chance at a premium player and a potential five year contract at a fixed rookie wage. It's value has nothing to do with Cooper.

You really think Dallas would pay him big had he played poorly? I don't think so. There are #1 picks who bust out who will never seen that big payday because their level of play.

Very few after the year and a half that the Cowboys would have gotten out of their 2019 1st round pick, to say nothing of the $14 million they're currently set to pay Cooper. They're locked into extending his contract and if they don't, the trade will end up being a huge bust no matter what. Cooper and his agent know this, and know they have that leverage. The Cowboys gave it up the day the trade happened.
 

Doomsday101

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No, a first round pick is a first round pick. It's value is huge. It gives a team a chance at a premium player and a potential five year contract at a fixed rookie wage. It's value has nothing to do with Cooper.



Very few after the year and a half that the Cowboys would have gotten out of their 2019 1st round pick, to say nothing of the $14 million they're currently set to pay Cooper. They're locked into extending his contract and if they don't, the trade will end up being a huge bust no matter what. Cooper and his agent know this, and know they have that leverage. The Cowboys gave it up the day the trade happened.

1st rd means nothing if a guy is not playing good ball. No one is paying big money for poor play regardless of you draft position
. As for Collins again Tenn like others can wait until he is a FA and bid against each other but chances are you will get a better deal when you don't have others competing for his services
 

quickccc

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They're not getting a 2nd for Collins. The Titans could sign him as a free agent next year for zero draft picks. They're not going to give a 2nd to get him for 1 year.

If Collins camp agrees to a trade to the Titans, Lael could agree to a mult-year deal with the Titans. and if the Titans are interested in a trade for Lael, they would be making that deal for Lael to be an immediate starter and contribute immediately this year, as opposed to next year when he becomes a FA, when multi teams could have a free run at him.

And you never know what/how other NFL teams see and value a player more than what it assumed. Players get overvalued often. If that happens in the NFL draft, it happens in FA, it can happen in trades.

it would be much like our near trade for Earl Thomas, when it's assumed we would've likely hammered out a long term deal while the two teams agree upon the trade compensation.
When it's substantial trade compensation/contract in question it would make sense for a team making that kind of acquisition to a long term commitment.
Only a lower risk type trade acquisition (ala Robert Quinn) may be more of an exception.
 

Stash

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1st rd means nothing it a guy is not playing good ball. No one is paying big money for poor play regardless of you draft position

You miss the point, the value of a first round pick has nothing to do with the player selected, or whether or not you "missed". A first round pick's value is a first round pick value.


As for Collins again Tenn like others can wait until he is a FA and bid against each other but chances are you will get a better deal when you don't have others competing for his services

Not when the player knows you have to keep him based on what you gave up to get him. Did the Bears "get a break" when they traded for Khalil Mack? Nope. He and his agent knew exactly what Chicago was giving up to get him, and they maximized their leverage. Just like Cooper and his agent are doing.
 

Doomsday101

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You miss the point, the value of a first round pick has nothing to do with the player selected, or whether or not you "missed". A first round pick's value is a first round pick value.




Not when the player knows you have to keep him based on what you gave up to get him. Did the Bears "get a break" when they traded for Khalil Mack? Nope. He and his agent knew exactly what Chicago was giving up to get him, and they maximized their leverage. Just like Cooper and his agent are doing.

No but Mack was well proven. Dallas did give up a 1st for Cooper but if he was out there dropping passes there is no way in hell Dallas would be looking to sign him to a long term deal. Collins is a player with potential but far from proven.
 

Stash

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No but Mack was well proven. Dallas did give up a 1st for Cooper but if he was out there dropping passes there is no way in hell Dallas would be looking to sign him to a long term deal.

They would still face a significant obligation to retain a player that they gave up their 2019 1st round pick to acquire, if for no other reason than to justify the trade and what they gave up. They need to justify the value of the pick they gave up to get him, that's the point.

Collins is a player with potential but far from proven.

Exactly right, so why would anyone be looking to give up a premium draft pick, pay him big money this year, and then have to work out a big money extension from there? You've debunked your own theory here.
 

Doomsday101

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They would still face a significant obligation to retain a player that they gave up their 2019 1st round pick to acquire, if for no other reason than to justify the trade and what they gave up. They need to justify the value of the pick they gave up to get him, that's the point.



Exactly right, so why would anyone be looking to give up a premium draft pick, pay him big money this year, and then have to work out a big money extension from there? You've debunked your own theory here.

Team will pull trades because they have scouted him as well and see the same potential but waiting until he hits FA market where you then have other team competing only drives up the price.
 

Stash

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Team will pull trades because they have scouted him as well and see the same potential but waiting until he hits FA market where you then have other team competing only drives up the price.

You yourself said it "Collins is a player with potential but far from proven". You can't out that toothpaste back in the tube now. If you can see that, people paid to scout sure can. And their bosses that would be giving up a whole lot for him do as well.

The fact is that Collins is vastly overpaid NOW, because Jerry is giving him the makeup money he promised. To now expect another team to give up draft equity and then continue to overpay him is unreasonable.
 

Doomsday101

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You yourself said it "Collins is a player with potential but far from proven". You can't out that toothpaste back in the tube now. If you can see that, people paid to scout sure can. And their bosses that would be giving up a whole lot for him do as well.

The fact is that Collins is vastly overpaid NOW, because Jerry is giving him the makeup money he promised. To now expect another team to give up draft equity and then continue to overpay him is unreasonable.

Then he stays put, again trade are not a 1 way street. Dallas does not have to trade him we can keep him and likely lose him next season but as long as they hold his right they can ask for the compensation they see as fit, if you feel different great. If Tenn wants him they can contend with other team who also may be interested. Now if you have 4 or 5 teams competing chances are Collins will look to the highest bidder
 

Stash

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Then he stays put, again trade are not a 1 way street. Dallas does not have to trade him we can keep him and likely lose him next season but as long as they hold his right they can ask for the compensation they see as fit, if you feel different great. If Tenn wants him they can contend with other team who also may be interested. Now if you have 4 or 5 teams competing chances are Collins will look to the highest bidder

Feel free to revisit this and let me know I'm wrong when Collins is traded.
 

Stash

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I would not be shocked if he is traded but Dallas is not going to give him away.

I will be shocked. For all of the reason I've mentioned. Adding in all factors, and a trade just doesn't add up.
 

tyke1doe

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Dallas always seems to hold on to players too long. Meanwhile, New England tends to get rid of their good players at the right time.
If a good deal is there to be made, trade. Continue getting possibly high or higher draft picks to replenish the roster.
McClay has shown he is pretty good at spotting talent so the high picks we get are more likely going to be players who can contribute.
Let's stop hanging onto players who will walk away leaving us with either nothing or a lower round pick via the compensation route.
 

xwalker

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If Collins camp agrees to a trade to the Titans, Lael could agree to a mult-year deal with the Titans. and if the Titans are interested in a trade for Lael, they would be making that deal for Lael to be an immediate starter and contribute immediately this year, as opposed to next year when he becomes a FA, when multi teams could have a free run at him.

And you never know what/how other NFL teams see and value a player more than what it assumed. Players get overvalued often. If that happens in the NFL draft, it happens in FA, it can happen in trades.

it would be much like our near trade for Earl Thomas, when it's assumed we would've likely hammered out a long term deal while the two teams agree upon the trade compensation.
When it's substantial trade compensation/contract in question it would make sense for a team making that kind of acquisition to a long term commitment.
Only a lower risk type trade acquisition (ala Robert Quinn) may be more of an exception.



Consider the Reverse Scenario
Example:

Cowboys do NOT have La'el Collins or Connor Williams.
Cowboy do have Cam Fleming and a rookie 4th round OT (and the same udfa rookie OTs).

Another team has La'el Collins and his is available in a trade.
He has the identical background as he does now in terms of past performance.
He is on the final year of his contract just like he is now.​

What would it be worth to the Cowboys to trade for La'el Collins in the hypothetical scenario?
  • They might get a small discount on the contact as compared to signing him as a free agent next March.
  • At best the discount would be something like 9M per instead of 10M per (i.e. about 10% at the very best).
  • The Cowboys are in Win-Now mode; therefore, they would have a significant focus on his performance for 2019.
  • It's possible that the 4th round rookie OT or one of the UDFA rookie OTs step up in training camp and out perform Fleming.
  • If not, then Fleming at RT is probably OK. Likely NFL average in his best games and a little below average in other games.
  • A Joe Looney at Center in 2018 type of performance or somewhere in that ballpark would be the expectation.
Is La'el Collins worth a 3rd round pick in that scenario?

Is it worth trading him away if only a 4th round pick is received as compensation?
He'll net a comp pick if stays for 2019.​

Other considerations:
Some GMs over-pay in trades for players with average performance history because the player has Wow type physical ability.
Collins doesn't have Wow type physical ability for an OT.
His foot quickness is on the lower end of the acceptable range.
His height is OK but the prototype is 6-5 to 6-6 and he is 6-4.
His arm length is OK but average at best even for Right Tackles. It's short for Left Tackles (33-3/4").
His height/arm-length wouldn't be an issue if he had elite foot quickness, but he doesn't.

A team wants Collins to play OG.
A team could target him as an OG but that makes him even less proven.
He did start 14 total games at OG for his first two seasons, but up & down performances.
Great power but abundant mistakes.

When Teams Over-Pay in Draft Pick Compensation
Earl Thomas was a game changing All Pro type player in his career. He might still be one.
Teams might over-pay in picks to trade for that type of player even at this late stage in his career.
Neither the Cowboys or other teams did (over-pay in trade) a year ago (probably because he wanted too much money).

I don't think any teams see La'el Collins as the type of commodity worth over-paying in a trade.

Summary:
Is Collins a slam-dunk quality starter in 2019 for a Win-Now team? Not really (better odds than most rookies, but not a "lock").

Is Collins a projected future Top 5 type at his position? Not really (it's possible, but not a high probability).

Can Collins move to LT in the future? Highly Unlikely.
 

Altestic

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Keep everyone and let Dak walk.

Seriously if we fail this year I'm ready to let Dak walk, trade Zeke and let Amari walk. Build around the defense.
You had me until the "let Amari walk" BS. Amari is the best player on our offense and his game fosters longevity. Also we gave up a 1st for him; you don't lose him for a bottom 3rd. He's a great player and a franchise WR. His game is similar to Larry Fitzgerald. You don't let that walk no matter what.

Quack? Absolutely let that bogus excuse for a starting QB walk.

Zeke is great, but if he wants top WR/LT money at RB, you have to consider letting him go and replacing as well.

Amari? Generational talent at WR for the next decade-plus. No way you let him walk.
 

xwalker

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True, however we pay him or he leaves next season, meantime we have 2 highly drafted OL players sitting in the wings. If Tenn is willing to offer a 2nd or 3rd for him then I make the move. Conner Williams was moved to OG but that is not the position he played in college that had him ranked as high as he was. In my view I see Williams as more of a natural OT not a G. Flipside we stay with Collins, he leaves via FA and we get less in compensation than we would have

1. Winning in 2019 is the top priority.

2. Teams unlikely to trade 2nd or 3rd round pick for average RT. They can get him for zero picks as a free agent in March (see trade history below).

3. Collins worth more to Cowboys than a 4th round pick even if Connor Williams beat him out for the starting job.

La'el Collins Trade Value
Teams can sign him a free agent next March.
The draft pick compensation would be the price to have him for 2019.

How much is it worth to have La'el Collins in 2019?

Past Trades for OTs
Prior to 2018 the Patriots traded for OT Trent Brown.
  • Brown had played RT for the Niners but the Patriots played him at LT.
  • Brown has freak measurable(s) including 36" arms.
  • Von Miller in two different interviews in 2017 said Brown was the best RT in the league.
  • Patriots received Brown and a 5th.
  • Niners received the 31st pick in the 3rd round.
  • Round3-Pick31 minus a 5th is equivalent value to Round4-Pick1 at best.
  • That's basically a 4th round pick for an OT with LT ability.

Prior to 2018, Panthers traded a 2020 7th for OT Corey Robinson (age 26). He had 8 starts prior to the trade.

Prior to 2018, Broncos traded a 2019 6th for OT Jared Veldheer (age 30). He had 101 starts primarily at LT prior to the trade. Denver wanted him to play RT.

In March 2019 AZ traded their compensatory 6th round pick for OT Marcus Gilbert. In 2015 he played 99.5% of the snaps and gave up 1 sack and 2 hits for the season.
 

Dak_Attack_09

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Tennessee Titans ideal trade target from the Dallas Cowboys
by Will Lomas 7 hours ago


Do the Tennessee Titans want to go after the big name or the small trade?
The Tennessee Titans and Dallas Cowboys are similar in a lot of ways, so it makes sense that there are actually two trade targets that the teams could discuss.

One of the big similarities between the two teams is that the Dallas Cowboys are also facing a cap crunch nightmare at the end of this season.

The difference there is that the Titans actually have some people signed after next year but it really feels like a huge chunk of the starters on both sides of the ball for the Cowboys are up for grabs after this season.

According to OTC, the Cowboys have 14 players set to hit free agency after this year that played 40% or more snaps. Compare that to just 10 from the Titans.

The big name stands out because he seems like one of the players in the NFL most likely to be moved before the season, La’el Collins.

The former LSU lineman had all the potential coming out in the 2015 NFL Draft and it looks like he finally lived up to that potential this year. However, the Cowboys are going to lose him to free agency after this year.


Trade the Collins and mid round pick for Jeffrey Simmons.


 
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