The “refs are out to get us” evidence is actually thin

[big dog cowboy]

Dez caught it.

 

[MarcusRock]

Gosh, it only took a page for this schtick to show up in the thread.

The NFL later admitted Dez made the catch and the Butler call wasn't correct because he never entered the huddle. You can kinda, sorta imagine the wording being OK with that thread but its a call that hadn't been enforced in 10+ years.

And it only took 4 posts for your lies to enter the thread. One I've busted you on in the past before you melted down like a toddler. Allow me to show everyone.

All of these things can be true:

1 - there is absolutely no conspiracy against any individual team and the calls always even out

2 - every team has fans that are convinced the refs are out to get them

3 - when Jerry challenged Goodell over Zeke's suspension and took money out of Goodell's paycheck, holding calls against opposing OL stopped for the eight or so weeks Goodell was fighting with Jerry.

Regarding your Scooby Doo and the Gang logic in #3, the simple question to be asked is how often such streaks happen in the NFL which I did. When you lied stating that it had "only happened twice in the history of the NFL" I pressed you on who it was and you couldn't answer, melting into a puddle at being owned.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/i-am-sick-of-one-side-officiating.418118/page-13#post-8609949​

And show proof that the NFL "admitted" Dez actually caught it back in 2014 under those rules and not that under the new rule it would have been a catch, which is what they stated when they rolled the new rule out years later. You can't because you're a liar on these boards.

And as for Butler, this is proof fools like you don't know the rules. Butler's foul actually had nothing to do with him in the huddle, although that could have been called too if they wanted. Observe the 2016 rules. I even made the pertinent parts a different color so even you can recognize it.

ARTICLE 8. PENALTIES FOR ILLEGAL SUBSTITUTION OR WITHDRAWAL. Penalties are:
(a) For 12 or more players in the offensive huddle (whistle blown immediately and ball remains dead): Loss of five yards from
the succeeding spot.
(b) For a substitute entering the field during a live ball: Loss of five yards.
(c) For interference with the play by a substitute who enters the field during a live ball: Palpably unfair act. See 12-3-3.
(d) For an offensive substitute who does not move onto the field as far as the inside of the field numerals: Loss of five yards
from the previous spot.
(e) For an offensive substitute who moves onto the field inside the field numerals and leaves without participating in one play:
Unsportsmanlike Conduct. See 5-2-5 Note.
(f) For a withdrawn player clearing the field on the opponents’ side or across an end line: Loss of five yards from the previous
spot.
(g) For illegal return of a suspended player: Loss of five yards from the previous spot if discovery is made while the ball is in
play, or five yards from the succeeding spot if discovered between downs, in which case the ball remains dead.
(h) For return of a disqualified player: Loss of 15 yards from the previous spot if discovery is made while the ball is in play, or
15 yards from the succeeding spot if discovered between downs, in which case the ball remains dead, and, in either case,
exclusion from the playing field enclosure.
Note: If the illegal return of a player is not discovered until the end of a down, but prior to the start of the next one,
enforcement is from the previous spot when definitely known. Otherwise, enforcement is from the succeeding spot as a
foul between downs. See 14-4-9.​

Note that in (a) with 12 men in the huddle the whistle is blown immediately. Did that happen with the Butler penalty? No, tool, because (e) applied. The ref actually made the wrong announcement when he called the penalty. This is discoverable by simple reading. Did Butler run past the numerals and not participate in the play? This is also a snap penalty, meaning that coaches could have told Garrett to call a timeout if they realized the confusion and what Butler did. But they didn't. However, CONSPIRACY! is easier to claim than actually knowing the playing rules. So go back to kissing xwalker's rear when he posts because because crossing into my domain does you no favors, son.

Owned again, clown. But keep trying to avenge being busted lying, fanboi. LOL.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

And it only took 4 posts for your lies to enter the thread. One I've busted you on in the past before you melted down like a toddler. Allow me to show everyone.

Regarding your Scooby Doo and the Gang logic in #3, the simple question to be asked is how often such streaks happen in the NFL which I did. When you lied stating that it had "only happened twice in the history of the NFL" I pressed you on who it was and you couldn't answer, melting into a puddle at being owned.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/i-am-sick-of-one-side-officiating.418118/page-13#post-8609949​

And show proof that the NFL "admitted" Dez actually caught it back in 2014 under those rules and not that under the new rule it would have been a catch, which is what they stated when they rolled the new rule out years later. You can't because you're a liar on these boards.

And as for Butler, this is proof fools like you don't know the rules. Butler's foul actually had nothing to do with him in the huddle, although that could have been called too if they wanted. Observe the 2016 rules. I even made the pertinent parts a different color so even you can recognize it.

ARTICLE 8. PENALTIES FOR ILLEGAL SUBSTITUTION OR WITHDRAWAL. Penalties are:
(a) For 12 or more players in the offensive huddle (whistle blown immediately and ball remains dead): Loss of five yards from
the succeeding spot.
(b) For a substitute entering the field during a live ball: Loss of five yards.
(c) For interference with the play by a substitute who enters the field during a live ball: Palpably unfair act. See 12-3-3.
(d) For an offensive substitute who does not move onto the field as far as the inside of the field numerals: Loss of five yards
from the previous spot.
(e) For an offensive substitute who moves onto the field inside the field numerals and leaves without participating in one play:
Unsportsmanlike Conduct. See 5-2-5 Note.
(f) For a withdrawn player clearing the field on the opponents’ side or across an end line: Loss of five yards from the previous
spot.
(g) For illegal return of a suspended player: Loss of five yards from the previous spot if discovery is made while the ball is in
play, or five yards from the succeeding spot if discovered between downs, in which case the ball remains dead.
(h) For return of a disqualified player: Loss of 15 yards from the previous spot if discovery is made while the ball is in play, or
15 yards from the succeeding spot if discovered between downs, in which case the ball remains dead, and, in either case,
exclusion from the playing field enclosure.
Note: If the illegal return of a player is not discovered until the end of a down, but prior to the start of the next one,
enforcement is from the previous spot when definitely known. Otherwise, enforcement is from the succeeding spot as a
foul between downs. See 14-4-9.​

Note that in (a) with 12 men in the huddle the whistle is blown immediately. Did that happen with the Butler penalty? No, tool, because (e) applied. The ref actually made the wrong announcement when he called the penalty. This is discoverable by simple reading. Did Butler run past the numerals and not participate in the play? This is also a snap penalty, meaning that coaches could have told Garrett to call a timeout if they realized the confusion and what Butler did. But they didn't. However, CONSPIRACY! is easier to claim than actually knowing the playing rules. So go back to kissing xwalker's rear when he posts because because crossing into my domain does you no favors, son.

Owned again, clown. But keep trying to avenge being busted lying, fanboi. LOL.

How funny is that? I cornered kaiser on a different lie in this same thread.

 

[Kaiser]

And it only took 4 posts for your lies to enter the thread. One I've busted you on in the past before you melted down like a toddler. Allow me to show everyone.

Same schtick, only now he is getting paid by the word. You are claiming people lied because you weren't willing to read the threads, instead posting "You gotta show me" nonsense.

The NFL admitted the Dez play was a catch and put in the "new rule" to clarify that and prevent the situation from ever happening again.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washingto...now-says-cowboys-dez-bryant-did-fact-catch-it

Now, run along and try to figure out who Golden Tate plays for.

 

[Kaiser]

How funny is that? I cornered kaiser on a different lie in this same thread.

The thread where you edited post #25 and lied about doing so?

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/the-“refs-are-out-to-get-us”-evidence-is-actually-thin.459177/page-2

 

[Kaiser]

Note that in (a) with 12 men in the huddle the whistle is blown immediately. Did that happen with the Butler penalty? No, tool, because (e) applied.

Then why did they wait until after a 22 yard gain to call it? And privately admit it was the wrong call?

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/01/19/nfl-admits-mistake-on-huddle-penalty-on-brice-butler/

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The thread where you edited post #25 and lied about doing so?

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/the-“refs-are-out-to-get-us”-evidence-is-actually-thin.459177/page-2

Thanks for linking to same posts I referenced!

Where’s the lie?

The screenshots are there.

Expose me.

What did I change?

Looool, you lying sack.

Congrats. You’ve got three active lies going on the forum right now (“Buh, buh, it means inpatient!”)

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Yes, I can deny “the refs swallow their whistles when we play”. We had 109 penalties called against us in 2019. Our opponents had 102. Take a sample game- week 16 against Philly- the most critical of the year. We lost, but Philly had more penalties called against them and for more yards than we did.

I think the key phrase you used earlier was “it feels like” because there’s no hard evidence of that.

Problem is barring some ref coming out publicly and saying "we were told to make bad calls against the Cowboys at some point in some games", there never will be "hard evidence". Even then if it's only one ref he would just be said to be crazy, or had a gripe against the head officials or dismissed as only being one ref.

But if there is such a thing as "soft" evidence, there's lots. I can't remember all of them, but there was:

1. The "moving the ball before the snap" call against Ladoceur (sic) or Frederick (don't recall who) when the center placed the ball like he does EVERY snap, but THIS time it's called. Ever hear of it being called against anybody else? I can't, unless it was a huge, obvious move.

2. Our receiver just running a route and two defenders both tried to cover another Dallas defender and ran right into our defender, then called our receiver for a pick, when teams like the Pats and Packers do more obvious picks all the time, and it's not called.

3. Even in the 90's, Aikman was changing the call at the line of scrimmage, held up his left hand with his fingers pointing straight UP, placed his other FIST against that palm, and the official called a time out, saying Aikman was calling for it. When Aikman placed his right hand with the fingers pointing up and the other hand flat on top, making an obvious "T" to show the ref the difference, it was ignored.

4. Even back in the 70's, Dupree caught a pass while in the air, landed with both feet down a couple of yards past the first down marker, and a defender grabbed him and threw him back behind the marker, and the ref marked it there, instead of where he came down, again an obvious first down if called correctly, but it wasn't.

It doesn't take more "bad" calls, as many have pointed out, it's the timing. Doesn't have to be a lot, and I'm not saying it's kept Dallas from Super Bowls, or was so egregious as the Saints non-call, but one false penalty here and there can really mess up a season...

 

[MarcusRock]

How funny is that? I cornered kaiser on a different lie in this same thread.

It's what he does. We're not the only ones who see it. I remember there was a thread full of people calling him a clown. I didn't even feel the need to join in it was so bad. Let's take a walk down memory lane:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/mccarthy-quote-on-kellen-moore.451629/

 

[MarcusRock]

Same schtick, only now he is getting paid by the word. You are claiming people lied because you weren't willing to read the threads, instead posting "You gotta show me" nonsense.

The NFL admitted the Dez play was a catch and put in the "new rule" to clarify that and prevent the situation from ever happening again.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washingto...now-says-cowboys-dez-bryant-did-fact-catch-it

Now, run along and try to figure out who Golden Tate plays for.

That's right, dig in. You didn't just get schooled and shown to be a liar. Nope. Didn't happen.

Did you not just see this tidbit in the very article you linked?

According to New York Giants owner and NFL competition committee member, John Mara, the league reached a unanimous agreement that it should be ruled a completion IN THE FUTURE. (emphasis mine)"

In other words, exactly what I said in my post above. I battled an entire thread of you emotional illiterates when this came out back then:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/competition-committee-says-dez-caught-it-merged.397355/

You're a clown show. For real.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It's what he does. We're not the only ones who see it. I remember there was a thread full of people calling him a clown. I didn't even feel the need to join in it was so bad. Let's taka walk down memory lane:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/mccarthy-quote-on-kellen-moore.451629/

Lol, I remember that thread.

Cornering him on his lies has become sport to me. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths someone will go to just not admit “hey, I was wrong.”

I know all his tricks.

Right now he likes to post meaningless links because it gives off the appearance that he’s actually substantiating his claim.

 

[MarcusRock]

Then why did they wait until after a 22 yard gain to call it? And privately admit it was the wrong call?

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/01/19/nfl-admits-mistake-on-huddle-penalty-on-brice-butler/

You are just more dense than a wet brick. I explained this whole situation in my post above. Again, more headline reading and no investigation. The NFL admitted nothing. This is a report on some guy who had "sources" the NFL said it was wrong to 2 teams but the NFL itself said they didn't talk to teams. Furthermore, there was this from the official on the field:

Referee Tony Corrente told a pool reporter after the game that it isn’t “an obscure rule” and that Butler “has to stay either in the game or they can call a timeout and get out of it.”

In other words, this is exactly what I said that Garrett could have called a timeout to get out of the penalty in part (e) of the rule that Butler DID break because it wasn't a pre-snap penalty. Why didn't you answer that question? With 12 men in the huddle, they blow the whistle immediately per part (a) of the rules because it IS a pre-snap penalty. Right? This is why you headline-reading, emotional parrots are no match for rational thinking and make yourselves look like idiots.

Now run along fan boi. You're no match here.

 

[Kaiser]

Thanks for linking to same posts I referenced!

Where’s the lie?

The screenshots are there.

Too funny you had to edit this one also.

Did you edit post #25 in that thread? (Hint, you did)

Did you say "100% of 37 is 74?" (Hint, you did)

 

[Kaiser]

Did you not just see this tidbit in the very article you linked?

​

In other words, exactly what I said in my post above.

In other words, you skipped over the quote in that article that proved you wrong:

The NFL competition committee appears to have unanimous agreement that controversial catch rulings involving Dez Bryant and Calvin Johnson should have been ruled complete, according to Giants owner John Mara.

Have you two noticed that the only likes you get is from each other?

 

[Redball Express]

Every year, during every Cowboys game, the cries of “These refs are out to get us”, or “Goodell has this crew paid off to get us” go out. But it does beg the question, Is this really true? What evidence do we have that we are getting hosed by the guys in stripes?

Looking at the number of total penalties called during the season is one way to look at the big picture of how often the Cowboys are being flagged during games compared to the rest of the league. Here’s a link to a pretty good free site to examine penalties called: https://www.nflpenalties.com/phase.php?year=2018

Here’s how the Cowboys stacked up last year when it came to penalties called against us:

• The Cowboys were 21st in the NFL last year in total number of penalties called against us. In other words, 20 of the 32 teams in the NFL had more penalties called than we did.
• We were ranked 10th in the league in offensive holding calls against us, which is in the top third. But here’s some perspective: We were called 25 times for offensive holding. Our opponents were called 25 times last year for offensive holding. Can’t say we were unequally called.
• In a year when defensive holding was seemingly called constantly, the Cowboys were ranked 24th in number of defensive holding calls.

So looking at 2019 in the penalties called department, it looks like we weren’t penalized as much as most teams.
one thing I will say is the quality of refereeing in the NFL has dropped in my opinion. But I don’t think any one team has been the beneficiary of the refs bad calls. This is a problem the NFL needs to address. It’s not a fairness issue as much as a quality issue.

Oh brother..

Been trying to post a reply to your thread all day. Type..phone ring, answer phone, page would disappear from screen on phone..

Start again.

So here goes.

When I think about this question I first have to know..

Do I believe pro football could actually cheat the fans and play funny with the rules.

I thought about penalties and how it relates to us the fans.

I looked at what you summarized as hard facts.

Then I consider minor things that tick me off as a fan.

Like when a penalty occurs.

Like penalties called and at what point in the game.

Like when a critical call is made and replay does not show it. Stuff like when a call is blown and it stands as called.

Then 15 minutes later another inexplicable call is made and announcers decide it was a bad call..

but the announcers say the 2 calls cancel each other out so things are even.

Right. Not.

Then I here about the Houston Astros stealing signs and winning a World Series.

Then I think about Pete Rose and betting on baseball games.

Or Brady on Deflatgate.

Or Belecheat with several problems with the league office.

So is there stuff going on.?

You bet. Is there clear evidence.?

Not enough.

Not yet.

I do know one thing for sure.

Las Vegas seems to know exactly what is happening at any given time.

How is it that happens?

Lucky, huh?

 

[MarcusRock]

In other words, you skipped over the quote in that article that proved you wrong:

The NFL competition committee appears to have unanimous agreement that controversial catch rulings involving Dez Bryant and Calvin Johnson should have been ruled complete, according to Giants owner John Mara.

Have you two noticed that the only likes you get is from each other?

That's not a quote, dimwit. That's a headline-grabbing summation of a quote. Here's Mara's actual quote from the article:

"The Jesse James play, I think SHOULD be a completion, Mara said, but I'm not sure we're unanimous on that. But plays where guys seem to make the catch and then make a football move with it, I think most of us agree those SHOULD be completions. Now it's just a question of coming up with the right language (emphasis mine)."

"coming up with the right language..." because the rule hadn't been changed yet, fool. So they changed it to where those catches WOULD be catches going forward.

And maybe we don't watch the like-o-meter because we don't need validation from others like the esteem-challenged. Nor do we need assistance from the media to tell us what took place because we can read a rulebook and reason without ..... wait for it ..... needing validation.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Too funny you had to edit this one also.

Did you edit post #25 in that thread? (Hint, you did)

Did you say "100% of 37 is 74?" (Hint, you did)

Check the date donkey (Feb. 4, 2019)



“What do inpatient mean?”

Can you get one of your “mathematician friends” to help you with the math problem?

That three month WyoTech program didn’t cover basic math?

 

[MarcusRock]

In other words, you skipped over the quote in that article that proved you wrong:

The NFL competition committee appears to have unanimous agreement that controversial catch rulings involving Dez Bryant and Calvin Johnson should have been ruled complete, according to Giants owner John Mara.

Have you two noticed that the only likes you get is from each other?

So why'd you drop the Butler argument? Aren't you going to answer my questions or just admit I was right about it?

Here's the NFL rule cited by the NFL on the Butler penalty. Note how they quote Article 8(e) of the rule just like I stated previously without even having to look for their proof. Knowing how to read is a great thing. You should try it.



You're overmatched. Just stop.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Every year, during every Cowboys game, the cries of “These refs are out to get us”, or “Goodell has this crew paid off to get us” go out. But it does beg the question, Is this really true? What evidence do we have that we are getting hosed by the guys in stripes?

Looking at the number of total penalties called during the season is one way to look at the big picture of how often the Cowboys are being flagged during games compared to the rest of the league. Here’s a link to a pretty good free site to examine penalties called: https://www.nflpenalties.com/phase.php?year=2018

Here’s how the Cowboys stacked up last year when it came to penalties called against us:

• The Cowboys were 21st in the NFL last year in total number of penalties called against us. In other words, 20 of the 32 teams in the NFL had more penalties called than we did.
• We were ranked 10th in the league in offensive holding calls against us, which is in the top third. But here’s some perspective: We were called 25 times for offensive holding. Our opponents were called 25 times last year for offensive holding. Can’t say we were unequally called.
• In a year when defensive holding was seemingly called constantly, the Cowboys were ranked 24th in number of defensive holding calls.

So looking at 2019 in the penalties called department, it looks like we weren’t penalized as much as most teams.
one thing I will say is the quality of refereeing in the NFL has dropped in my opinion. But I don’t think any one team has been the beneficiary of the refs bad calls. This is a problem the NFL needs to address. It’s not a fairness issue as much as a quality issue.

I'm not necessarily disputing the numbers here, but it doesn't necessarily matter how many flags come but when flags are thrown or not thrown. I'm not saying any fix was in but an example could be the 2018 conference championship game when the saints Lewis got mugged and no PI call was made. Other times it could be the opposite where a team, like the Cowboys could be trying to hold on to a lead and then get called for a phantom PI call, before they were for 1 season were able to red flag them. Like I said I'm not disputing the number of calls, but when calls are made or not made.
.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Every year, during every Cowboys game, the cries of “These refs are out to get us”, or “Goodell has this crew paid off to get us” go out. But it does beg the question, Is this really true? What evidence do we have that we are getting hosed by the guys in stripes?

Looking at the number of total penalties called during the season is one way to look at the big picture of how often the Cowboys are being flagged during games compared to the rest of the league. Here’s a link to a pretty good free site to examine penalties called: https://www.nflpenalties.com/phase.php?year=2018

Here’s how the Cowboys stacked up last year when it came to penalties called against us:

• The Cowboys were 21st in the NFL last year in total number of penalties called against us. In other words, 20 of the 32 teams in the NFL had more penalties called than we did.
• We were ranked 10th in the league in offensive holding calls against us, which is in the top third. But here’s some perspective: We were called 25 times for offensive holding. Our opponents were called 25 times last year for offensive holding. Can’t say we were unequally called.
• In a year when defensive holding was seemingly called constantly, the Cowboys were ranked 24th in number of defensive holding calls.

So looking at 2019 in the penalties called department, it looks like we weren’t penalized as much as most teams.
one thing I will say is the quality of refereeing in the NFL has dropped in my opinion. But I don’t think any one team has been the beneficiary of the refs bad calls. This is a problem the NFL needs to address. It’s not a fairness issue as much as a quality issue.

The aggregate numbers don't tell the story. The story is told by bad calls, particularly at critical times in the game. But it takes a lot of work to get that data *for the whole league*, which is what is needed to see if we're being singled out. Maybe a random sample of the league, but still, who's going to spend the time to do that?

Also, some teams make penalties part of their game plan. They take every edge. The Hoodie is like that. Never got the sense that Garrett was like that.

Hard to compete with the Saints for blatantly getting screwed, but the UnCatch is probably top 5 in the last decade.

And Zeke was thoroughly disproportionately screwed by the league on his suspension. For an accusation that didn't even result in an arrest. Was he even brought in for questioning?