The “refs are out to get us” evidence is actually thin

[ryanbabs]

While I don’t believe in a league wide conspiracy I don’t care what the penalty totals are. I care about when they are called. And it always seems we get hosed by a brutal penalty at a horrible time in the game.

This is exactly true. Not the quantity but the situational penalties.

 

[Mannix]

The Goon isn’t paying the refs to screw us...HOWEVER, the refs know that the Goon hates Jerry, so they have absolutely zero fear of any repercussions if they should look bad while levying their own personal biases against Dallas. Nor will the national media make a big deal out of it. I hold my breathe EVERY time we make a big play...because that is when we normally DO get called flagged.

 

[Bobhaze]

I'm not necessarily disputing the numbers here, but it doesn't necessarily matter how many flags come but when flags are thrown or not thrown. I'm not saying any fix was in but an example could be the 2018 conference championship game when the saints Lewis got mugged and no PI call was made. Other times it could be the opposite where a team, like the Cowboys could be trying to hold on to a lead and then get called for a phantom PI call, before they were for 1 season were able to red flag them. Like I said I'm not disputing the number of calls, but when calls are made or not made.
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I guess my take is quite simple. We get some bad calls from refs at bad times. So do all NFL teams.The best teams find a way to win anyway. The not so good ones don’t. I’m amazed at how many fans of all NFL teams complain about how their team gets screwed.

The great coaches we’ve had like Landry, Johnson and Parcells...never....ever...complained about calls. Why? Because it creates a loser’s culture. Excuses ruin accountability. Jimmy famously said, “Good teams make their own luck.” That’s the culture of a winner.

You win or lose because of the plays you make or don’t make. For every bad call that came at a terrible time, you can always also find plays that our players did or didn’t make. THATS where the game was decided.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I guess my take is quite simple. We get some bad calls from refs at bad times. So do all NFL teams.The best teams find a way to win anyway. The not so good ones don’t. I’m amazed at how many fans of all NFL teams complain about how their team gets screwed.

The great coaches we’ve had like Landry, Johnson and Parcells...never....ever...complained about calls. Why? Because it creates a loser’s culture. Excuses ruin accountability. Jimmy famously said, “Good teams make their own luck.” That’s the culture of a winner.

You win or lose because of the plays you make or don’t make. For every bad call that came at a terrible time, you can always also find plays that our players did or didn’t make. THATS where the game was decided.

So the 2018 saints weren't a good team? BTW just what did Parcells do with the Cowboys? The Cowboys didn't win a single NFC East title and lost in the wildcard games both times they got there under Parcells. Yes teams win more games when they play good but that doesn't mean that they also don't lose some games because at a crucial time, usually late in the game that a team gets hosed by a bad call or one that doesn't get called. It is utter foolishness to think that refs don't play an important part in the outcomes of some games. What you don't get is sometimes, whether during Landy's time or Johnson's time a penalty can change the momentum of one team and give it to the other team. If the Cowboys on a 3rd and long complete a pass and get a 1st down but holding is called on a lineman or offensive PI is called on the receiver and then the fail to make the 1st down and the other team get all hyped up and takes that momentum and scores and wins. I'm not saying every loss is due to a bad call or a non call but those do happen sometimes and they do have an effect on the game. Oh by the way your bolding doesn't make it more right.
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[MarcusRock]

The aggregate numbers don't tell the story. The story is told by bad calls, particularly at critical times in the game. But it takes a lot of work to get that data *for the whole league*, which is what is needed to see if we're being singled out. Maybe a random sample of the league, but still, who's going to spend the time to do that?

Certainly not a CONSPIRACY! theorist, that's for sure. They never come with proof. Some even ask others to prove their theories for them as if the burden of proof shouldn't rest with them seeing they're bringing the accusation in the first place. So we're just left with feelings and excuses for why we didn't win.

 

[MarcusRock]

So the 2018 saints weren't a good team? BTW just what did Parcells do with the Cowboys? The Cowboys didn't win a single NFC East title and lost in the wildcard games both times they got there under Parcells. Yes teams win more games when they play good but that doesn't mean that they also don't lose some games because at a crucial time, usually late in the game that a team gets hosed by a bad call or one that doesn't get called. It is utter foolishness to think that refs don't play an important part in the outcomes of some games. What you don't get is sometimes, whether during Landy's time or Johnson's time a penalty can change the momentum of one team and give it to the other team. If the Cowboys on a 3rd and long complete a pass and get a 1st down but holding is called on a lineman or offensive PI is called on the receiver and then the fail to make the 1st down and the other team get all hyped up and takes that momentum and scores and wins. I'm not saying every loss is due to a bad call or a non call but those do happen sometimes and they do have an effect on the game. Oh by the way your bolding doesn't make it more right.
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You're assuming any call would be a bad one or not legit. In this very thread people have failed to let go of calls that were right calls in the Dez non-catch and Butler penalty vs. Green Bay. Forget the actual proof by the rules. These plays aren't pieces of "evidence," they're feelings. There are many others. And EVERY team's fans can name their own and use the same "timely penalty calls" excuse for losses. Bob is right. They're used to soften the blow for losses so people who over-identify with their fandom can save face in the self-image department. "I'm not really a loser by extension. It's because someone CHEATED me out of a win."

 

[Bobhaze]

So the 2018 saints weren't a good team? BTW just what did Parcells do with the Cowboys? The Cowboys didn't win a single NFC East title and lost in the wildcard games both times they got there under Parcells. Yes teams win more games when they play good but that doesn't mean that they also don't lose some games because at a crucial time, usually late in the game that a team gets hosed by a bad call or one that doesn't get called. It is utter foolishness to think that refs don't play an important part in the outcomes of some games. What you don't get is sometimes, whether during Landy's time or Johnson's time a penalty can change the momentum of one team and give it to the other team. If the Cowboys on a 3rd and long complete a pass and get a 1st down but holding is called on a lineman or offensive PI is called on the receiver and then the fail to make the 1st down and the other team get all hyped up and takes that momentum and scores and wins. I'm not saying every loss is due to a bad call or a non call but those do happen sometimes and they do have an effect on the game. Oh by the way your bolding doesn't make it more right.
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Again. I hate excuses. Crying about refs is just excuse making. You don’t have to to agree with me. It’s just the way I see it. I support any fan’s right to complain about a refs bad calls. They happen. I just don’t think they determine the outcome of games because good teams USUALLY overcome them. When two good teams are playing like the saints rams game you referenced, both good teams can’t advance.

If you think the Cowboys are not advancing every year because of the refs, you or anyone else is entitled to that opinion. I’ll just be glad that opinion is not found in Mike McCarthy’s locker room.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Certainly not a CONSPIRACY! theorist, that's for sure. They never come with proof. Some even ask others to prove their theories for them as if the burden of proof shouldn't rest with them seeing they're bringing the accusation in the first place. So we're just left with feelings and excuses for why we didn't win.

Conspiracy is the natural and nearly inevitable result of a group of people with inside information, and the interest and power to use it.
It's the rule, not the exception of human institutions.

 

[BourbonBalz]

I don't think anyone ever thought it was a "refs are out to get us" situation. But you can't deny the refs swallow their whistle when we play. Have no issue with the calls against us. You can probably call something every play by a team. But it feels like they swallow their whistle when it comes to us.

This is the problem. Many teams, particularly the Packers, seem to get away with murder when they play us.

 

[MarcusRock]

Conspiracy is the natural and nearly inevitable result of a group of people with inside information, and the interest and power to use it.
It's the rule, not the exception of human institutions.

Then I'd love to know the "interest" in keeping a ratings juggernaut like the Cowboys down and out of the Super Bowl or from playoff runs in general.

 

[Playmaker3128]

While I don’t believe the nfl is rigged at all in terms of penalties. I still believe the numbers from the original post can be skewed.

for example - NE is playing. They have only had 2 penalties called against them and the opposing team has 9. Its late in the game they’re up by 21. The refs throw a couple “meaningless” flags to make the numbers look closer. Maybe 9 to 5-6.


I still wish officials would just ref every game like the super bowl. Where you never see a crazy amount of penalties.

 

[gjkoeppen]

You're assuming any call would be a bad one or not legit. In this very thread people have failed to let go of calls that were right calls in the Dez non-catch and Butler penalty vs. Green Bay. Forget the actual proof by the rules. These plays aren't pieces of "evidence," they're feelings. There are many others. And EVERY team's fans can name their own and use the same "timely penalty calls" excuse for losses. Bob is right. They're used to soften the blow for losses so people who over-identify with their fandom can save face in the self-image department. "I'm not really a loser by extension. It's because someone CHEATED me out of a win."

I'll repeat what I said. It is utter foolishness to think that penalties don't at times affect the outcomes of games whether they are penalties called or penalties that don't get called. If pebnalties have no affect on game outcomes then why have refs in the first place.
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[gjkoeppen]

Again. I hate excuses. Crying about refs is just excuse making. You don’t have to to agree with me. It’s just the way I see it. I support any fan’s right to complain about a refs bad calls. They happen. I just don’t think they determine the outcome of games because good teams USUALLY overcome them. When two good teams are playing like the saints rams game you referenced, both good teams can’t advance.

If you think the Cowboys are not advancing every year because of the refs, you or anyone else is entitled to that opinion. I’ll just be glad that opinion is not found in Mike McCarthy’s locker room.

I tdidn't say nor imply that the Cowboys don't advance because of the refs. What I am saying is the Cowboys like most other teams have lost some games because of bad calls made or not made. Your rebuttal that good teams over come those calls is fine when they happen in the 1st half or 3rd quarter or early in the 4th quarter, but when those bad calls or non calls are made in the final 2 minutes of the game when trying to either make their comeback or hang on to a lead, that "oh good teams over come them" just doesn't fly. As I said it's not necessarily the number of penalties call but when and if they are bad calls or non-calls. Also why is it that sportscasters when giving scores and doing highlights sometimes say that a penalty ended a teams comeback?
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[TheMarathonContinues]

This is the problem. Many teams, particularly the Packers, seem to get away with murder when they play us.

Packers are the main one. Every time we play it seems the refs kill us at bad times.

 

[phildadon86]

Then I'd love to know the "interest" in keeping a ratings juggernaut like the Cowboys down and out of the Super Bowl or from playoff runs in general.

Because more people watch when they get screwed. Not that hard to figure out. Why do people watch shows like 90 day fiancé? To see what happens next.

 

[Jarv]

don't know about last year but i went through the exercise 2 or 3 years back specifically on holding. it was the yardage differential that we were highest in the league.

it isn't the number of calls necessarily, it's the when it happens to kill drives or negate big plays say on a 3rd down.

Exactly...Last year actually wasn't bad, it was the prior 5-10 years that hurt.

 

[glimmerman]

It’s the timing of the calls. Game changing or altering. The penalty where they said LP moved the ball before the snap and cost us the win. Some are as bad as saints and rams playoff game. Lol.

 

[glimmerman]

Because more people watch when they get screwed. Not that hard to figure out. Why do people watch shows like 90 day fiancé? To see what happens next.

You watch that too. Lol.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Then I'd love to know the "interest" in keeping a ratings juggernaut like the Cowboys down and out of the Super Bowl or from playoff runs in general.

Ask Goodell.

 

[phildadon86]

You watch that too. Lol.

Yeah. It’s a show me and the wife watch together lol