The Bucs lone TD

[Jarv]

I noticed this in the game, but it struck me again watching the replay. The BUCs have the ball on the 4.5 yard line. Winston makes his famous run where he drops the ball, then a late flag calls us for holding. Of course it can't be PI, because he never threw the ball. So they called holding and put the ball on the 1 yard line.

Now, shouldn't it be half the distance to the goal and approximatly the 2.25 yard line? Nope, the ball was placed on the 1 yard line. The ref said "The ball will be placed at the 1 yard line, at the spot of the fumble". So, if we recovered the fumble, why was the possession changed? If they took the penalty, which I assumed they did, then it should have been half of the distance to the goal line? Not the spot of the fumble, since they took the penalty and not the play?

So can anyone explain to me what happened and if the ref made the wrong call (Maybe there is a rule I don't know about), who on the Cowboys is responsible for pointing that out?

 

[JohnsKey19]

It's the right call. I've seen that in the past where the 5yd penalty, or in this case half the distance to the goal line, is added on to the end of the play. i don't know the specifics of the rule.

 

[jazzcat22]

I think Jarv is correct. Defensive Holding is a 5 yard penalty and 1st down. Therefore, the fumble never happened. Should have been half the distance.
However, Winston was so wide open on his run, it could have been at the 5 yard line, and he still would have scored.

 

[robjay04]

I think Jarv is correct. Defensive Holding is a 5 yard penalty and 1st down. Therefore, the fumble never happened. Should have been half the distance.
However, Winston was so wide open on his run, it could have been at the 5 yard line, and he still would have scored.

But they may have called another play..

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I noticed this in the game, but it struck me again watching the replay. The BUCs have the ball on the 4.5 yard line. Winston makes his famous run where he drops the ball, then a late flag calls us for holding. Of course it can't be PI, because he never threw the ball. So they called holding and put the ball on the 1 yard line.

Now, shouldn't it be half the distance to the goal and approximatly the 2.25 yard line? Nope, the ball was placed on the 1 yard line. The ref said "The ball will be placed at the 1 yard line, at the spot of the fumble". So, if we recovered the fumble, why was the possession changed? If they took the penalty, which I assumed they did, then it should have been half of the distance to the goal line? Not the spot of the fumble, since they took the penalty and not the play?

So can anyone explain to me what happened and if the ref made the wrong call (Maybe there is a rule I don't know about), who on the Cowboys is responsible for pointing that out?

That's exactly what I was thinking, too when it happened. I was at a sports bar, so I didn't know if it was a PI or a holding call. I had to imagine it was a defensive holding call.

So, I was surprised that it was on the 1-yard line.

As far as the holding call goes, the 5-yard chuck rule doesn't apply as Heath actually grabbed a hold of the receiver. Furthermore, it doesn't really apply that Winston was running because you can't hold an offensive player like that. For instance, if a guard is run blocking and blows by the DT and is trying to get to the second level and the DT grabs his jersey to prevent him from going upfield, that's defensive holding. However, the refs rarely call that and I can't imagine a time when they have ever called defensive holding in that regard.

My guess is that the refs felt that Heath held when Winston was in the pocket and looking to throw.





YR

 

[Derinyar]

It was a touchy call because of the scramble. If Winston is at the line or past it Heath could tackle the guy. Seems like one that the refs should have let go honestly. I'm sure they weren't trying to alter the game outcome, but the last two minutes seemed to be called very much to help one team.

 

[TheCount]

A defense hold doesn't negate an offensive play. It's not an either/or situation. That means that you get credit up to where the hold takes place, and then the penalty is tacked on.

Essentially, they got the half the distance to the goal from where Winston was when the hold took place.

All that being said, it was the wrong call period because Winston is running the ball, he's not looking to throw. Who the hell calls a defensive hold on a running play? Technically, it CAN happen, but you never see that called.

 

[jazzcat22]

But they may have called another play..

May have, but doubt it very much.

 

[Jarv]

A defense hold doesn't negate an offensive play. It's not an either/or situation. That means that you get credit up to where the hold takes place, and then the penalty is tacked on.

Essentially, they got the half the distance to the goal from where Winston was when the hold took place.

All that being said, it was the wrong call period because Winston is running the ball, he's not looking to throw. Who the hell calls a defensive hold on a running play? Technically, it CAN happen, but you never see that called.

Are you sure about that Count? A defensive hold is not a spot foul, it's 5 yards from the line of scrimmage and an automatic 1st down. If the 5 yards puts it in the endzone, it should be half the distance to the goal line. The ref did say "The ball will be placed at the 1 yard line, at the spot of the fumble" if you listen to it. So they either did 1 of 2 things....

1. Gave Tampa possession of the fumble, since the ball was placed at the spot of the fumble.
or
2. Screwed up on the half of the distance to the goal line.

Does anyone know of a place where I can a question to MIke Pereira or Strum to ask them about the ruling?

 

[Jarv]

Hmmm...

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Did he need to say bucs win? At the end.

 

[tyke1doe]

All that being said, it was the wrong call period because Winston is running the ball, he's not looking to throw. Who the hell calls a defensive hold on a running play? Technically, it CAN happen, but you never see that called.

Winston was in the pocket looking to throw, then he takes off running. It wasn't designed as a quarterback draw.

 

[tyke1doe]

Hmmm...

Good post. Good explanation.

 

[Kevinicus]

Hmmm...

Assuming he is right about the rule (and he's been wrong before, so this might not be the best assumption). That's a really stupid rule.

 

[Jarv]

A defense hold doesn't negate an offensive play. It's not an either/or situation. That means that you get credit up to where the hold takes place, and then the penalty is tacked on.

Essentially, they got the half the distance to the goal from where Winston was when the hold took place.

All that being said, it was the wrong call period because Winston is running the ball, he's not looking to throw. Who the hell calls a defensive hold on a running play? Technically, it CAN happen, but you never see that called.

Good call Count!

 

[Seven]

That's exactly what I was thinking, too when it happened. I was at a sports bar, so I didn't know if it was a PI or a holding call. I had to imagine it was a defensive holding call.

So, I was surprised that it was on the 1-yard line.

As far as the holding call goes, the 5-yard chuck rule doesn't apply as Heath actually grabbed a hold of the receiver. Furthermore, it doesn't really apply that Winston was running because you can't hold an offensive player like that. For instance, if a guard is run blocking and blows by the DT and is trying to get to the second level and the DT grabs his jersey to prevent him from going upfield, that's defensive holding. However, the refs rarely call that and I can't imagine a time when they have ever called defensive holding in that regard.

My guess is that the refs felt that Heath held when Winston was in the pocket and looking to throw.





YR

If Heath hadn't raped the dude he may have gotten away with it, IMO.

 

[TonyRomo17]

I cant believe they called that hold at that point in the game and not the clear push off on Dez

 

[jordan4vols]

Wouldn't have changed Wilcox looking as lost as ever on the one assignment he had on the play

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

If Heath hadn't raped the dude he may have gotten away with it, IMO.

Pretty much. It was extremely blatant and completely unnecessary. He had help and there was no way his guy was going to get the ball right there.

 

[Seven]

Pretty much. It was extremely blatant and completely unnecessary. He had help and there was no way his guy was going to get the ball right there.

Yep...............Heath panicked not wanting to lose the game for Dallas and ended up doing just that.

What bugs me the most is he was completely unaware of his surroundings. Football 101. They called a zone.......he panicked.

Schmuck.