The Case Against Zack Martin

[CowboysLaw87]

Is it OLine or have the Cowboys just not been good at drafting after the 1st or 2nd round at most positions?

Let's just say Starters drafted in the 3rd round or later in the past 10 years:

DT: Hatcher, Canty and maybe Crawford
CB: Scandrick
WR: T. Williams
LB: ?
Safety: Maybe Wilcox
TE: Witten (was that 2003?)
4-3 DE / 3-4 OLB: ?
QB: ?

Murray- 3rd
Harris- 6th. Doesn't have to be a starter to be a "hit." Holloman was a great pick in the 6th too. That's our round apparently.
Free- 4th
Barber- 4th
Ratliff- 7th

But yeah, overall it's been tough sledding even outside the 1st round. We've been really good there. I know you're supposed to hit on your 1st rounders, but our percentage is incredible (knock on wood).

Great picks: Newman, Ware, Spencer, Dez, Tyron, Fredrick
OK: Roy Williams, Spears, Jenkins
Meh: Felix
Terrible: Carpenter

9/11 extremely acceptable, with a couple potential HOF'ers in there.

 

[xwalker]

Murray- 3rd
Harris- 6th. Doesn't have to be a starter to be a "hit." Holloman was a great pick in the 6th too. That's our round apparently.
Free- 4th
Barber- 4th
Ratliff- 7th

But yeah, overall it's been tough sledding even outside the 1st round. We've been really good there. I know you're supposed to hit on your 1st rounders, but our percentage is incredible (knock on wood).

Great picks: Newman, Ware, Spencer, Dez, Tyron, Fredrick
OK: Roy Williams, Spears, Jenkins
Meh: Felix
Terrible: Carpenter

9/11 extremely acceptable, with a couple potential HOF'ers in there.

Yep, I was not posing that to criticize the Cowboys drafting but to compare other positions to OL. I don't see any difference in the bust rate of mid to later round OL than the average of all positions.

 

[burmafrd]

Is it OLine or have the Cowboys just not been good at drafting after the 1st or 2nd round at most positions?

Let's just say Starters drafted in the 3rd round or later in the past 10 years:

DT: Hatcher, Canty and maybe Crawford
CB: Scandrick
WR: T. Williams
LB: ?
Safety: Maybe Wilcox
TE: Witten (was that 2003?)
4-3 DE / 3-4 OLB: ?
QB: ?

if you are going after the 2nd rd that takes Gurode out of the argument (and LA and the Hotel as well). Going 3rd and after is usually not that good for any team but as regards the O line we have been an unmitigated Disaster. Even if you toss Peitti in their since he started a season we have been EPIC in our futility as regards drafting O line after round 2 for 20 years. you have ONE multi season starter that was at least decent and sometimes pretty good and that is Free. NO ONE ELSE.

 

[xwalker]

if you are going after the 2nd rd that takes Gurode out of the argument (and LA and the Hotel as well). Going 3rd and after is usually not that good for any team but as regards the O line we have been an unmitigated Disaster. Even if you toss Peitti in their since he started a season we have been EPIC in our futility as regards drafting O line after round 2 for 20 years. you have ONE multi season starter that was at least decent and sometimes pretty good and that is Free. NO ONE ELSE.

If you include the 2nd round and go back to include Gurode, LA and Flozell, I think OL becomes one of the best positions in terms on non 1st round draft picks.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

If you include the 2nd round and go back to include Gurode, LA and Flozell, I think OL becomes one of the best positions in terms on non 1st round draft picks.

Right, but none of those were in the last 12 years. It's utterly ridiculous that the best non-1st round OL we've taken in the last 12 years is Doug Free.

 

[burmafrd]

If you include the 2nd round and go back to include Gurode, LA and Flozell, I think OL becomes one of the best positions in terms on non 1st round draft picks.

really just underlines how bad we have sucked picking O line doesn't it? I mean by far the best we found we got in the LAST CENTURY.

 

[xwalker]

really just underlines how bad we have sucked picking O line doesn't it? I mean by far the best we found we got in the LAST CENTURY.

You have not shown any evidence that they were worse at drafting OL than they were at other positions.

 

[burmafrd]

You have not shown any evidence that they were worse at drafting OL than they were at other positions.

wow the obvious really escapes you doesn't it?

 

[xwalker]

wow the obvious really escapes you doesn't it?

The fact that you want something to be true because emotionally it feels true to you is not relevant to me.

If you want to prove something, just present all of the facts to show if it is true. Just list all (100%) of the Cowboys draft picks for some period of time and review the exact number of successes and failures at each position. Pick a round number like 10 or 20 years to avoid gerrymandering the results.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jonathon Cooper may have been a better guard prospect although inline I don't think he had as good a punch nor was as good in his footwork.

At the end of the day, I would put Martin as the second best guard last year. In fairness Cooper was the best guard in a long time though. Top 10 talent really well trained elite athleticism and measurables. Martin only has very good athleticism.

Martin is better than the DeCasrto and Konz's and other Stanford/Wisconsin linemen people gush about every year.