The Cowboys Drafts

BoyzBlaster said:
Howie would have moved on from Dak years ago just like he moved on from Wentz.
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He moved on from Wentz because the players and coaches hated him and he flat out sucked. So I don’t know if Dak fits that profile. When Hurts had issues he built a team around him and and catered to his strengths.
 
No doubt about it, the Cowboys draft well but that's not enough to overcome all the other things the Cowboys don't do well like free agency and managing the salary cap by not overpaying veterans.
 
TheMarathonContinues said:
He moved on from Wentz because the players and coaches hated him and he flat out sucked. So I don’t know if Dak fits that profile. When Hurts had issues he built a team around him and and catered to his strengths.
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I think we are going to have to agree to disagree and I can't do the Dak debate again. Have a good night.
 
gimmesix said:
Yes, it's not very high. And there are a lot more busts than many fans seem to realize. When fans say we can just wait until the third day to find a starter at this position or that position, I just shake my head. We can hope to get lucky, but the odds are against it.
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Well, there are some useful players taken there that never made Pro Bowls, but I had to come up with criteria a little stronger than my opinion of “useful player.”

I figured with all the PB replacements these days it was fair enough.

The issue I have with it, and the reason I did it in the first place was to not defend busted draft picks, but to point out that the Jones plan of draft only has little chance to work, even if you hit on a few outstanding players.

Today supports that yet again. They have the stars, but not enough depth/useful players….oh and the 31 teams they compete with use free agency to acquire starters. Thinking you’re going to draft them all doesn’t add up and never will.
 
Havic said:
If only we had the same success rate in the 2nd round
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The hit rate in finding a quality starter in the 2nd round is historically around 1 out of 3. Cowboys seem to be in that ball park over the prior 10 drafts. Quality starters I highlighted in bold, the rest are up for debate. I didn't include Jaylon Smith, but he did make a Pro bowl and had 2 decent years before he started to regress but he started 56 games here so technically you could make a case including him. Randy Gregory was never available enough to consider him a quality starter, though we almost brought him back after a good last season here. Jury is still out on Williams, Schoonmaker, and Kneeland. I didn't include Ezeiruaku on this list, but could see him being a good player here and probably has a higher ceiling than some of the other 2nd rounders.

2015: Randy Gregory
2016: Jaylon Smith
2017: Chidobe Awuzie
2018: Connor Williams
2019: Tristan Hill
2020: Trevon Diggs
2021: Kelvin Joseph
2022: Sam Williams
2023: Luke Schoonmaker
2024: Marshawn Kneeland
 
BoyzBlaster said:
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree and I can't do the Dak debate again. Have a good night.
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Oh I agree. I don’t do the Dak debates anymore. All I can do is state the facts and take from it what you will. I mean if the debate is Howie would’ve got rid of Dak lol….thats just a wild guess not really an argument lol. He could’ve or he couldn’t have not sure how anyone would know that.
 
Kingofholland said:
The hit rate in finding a quality starter in the 2nd round is historically around 1 out of 3. Cowboys seem to be in that ball park over the prior 10 drafts. Quality starters I highlighted in bold, the rest are up for debate. I didn't include Jaylon Smith, but he did make a Pro bowl and had 2 decent years before he started to regress but he started 56 games here so technically you could make a case including him. Randy Gregory was never available enough to consider him a quality starter, though we almost brought him back after a good last season here. Jury is still out on Williams, Schoonmaker, and Kneeland. I didn't include Ezeiruaku on this list, but could see him being a good player here and probably has a higher ceiling than some of the other 2nd rounders.

2015: Randy Gregory
2016: Jaylon Smith
2017: Chidobe Awuzie
2018: Connor Williams
2019: Tristan Hill
2020: Trevon Diggs
2021: Kelvin Joseph
2022: Sam Williams
2023: Luke Schoonmaker
2024: Marshawn Kneeland
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Yeah see they do well when they don’t reach or draft tight end. I’d argue Jaylon was solid for what he was even if it was for 3 years. But too high to pick there with his injury.
 
fivetwos said:
Well, there are some useful players taken there that never made Pro Bowls, but I had to come up with criteria a little stronger than my opinion of “useful player.”

I figured with all the PB replacements these days it was fair enough.

The issue I have with it, and the reason I did it in the first place was to not defend busted draft picks, but to point out that the Jones plan of draft only has little chance to work, even if you hit on a few outstanding players.

Today supports that yet again. They have the stars, but not enough depth/useful players….oh and the 31 teams they compete with use free agency to acquire starters. Thinking you’re going to draft them all doesn’t add up and never will.
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Yes, this is why I have moved on from blaming the players and the coaches we have had. As long as the roster-building strategy is faulty, the team is going to be faulty. Our drafting being as strong as it has been is the main reason we've been competitive in the regular seasons. We rarely end up with a bad team (outside of injuries), but since we don't supplement the draft, other than with a few usually low-cost trades and cheap FAs, we never end up with a great team.

As they say, you are only as strong as your weakest link.
 
CATCH17 said:
Turns out they’re good at it.


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I keep telling people this and the respond by saying McClay is a bum.

I'll never understand that because I realize scouting is not an exact science.

But, yes, they've done well recently.
 
Two things skew that stat. The Cowboys are known for keeping draft picks until the end instead of signing free agents that might add to the team. I don't think we'll ever see that though with the Jones Boys in charge. Adding the key free agents role players or underrated starters in all pro sports is what truly shows who the great GMs are. Also, the last few drafts have been rough. You can pound the chest about a decade of drafts, but just 2-3 years of flops will break your team, especially if you're the Cowboys and are depending more than other teams on those picks to be your next starters or depth.
 
I’ve never had a big problem with the Cowboys drafting although I hate drafting injured players that take a year to comeback & players everyone knows were taken 2 rounds earlier than they needed to be.
 
TheMarathonContinues said:
I don’t know man….they were pretty bad. And it would show up primarily in the post season.
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I think the holes in talent showed up more. Again, I'll use Dan Quinn. Last year, the team he coached made the NFC Championship Game. The year before, his defense collapsed against Green Bay. The difference is resources. Against the Packers, we already knew we were weak at the DT position, which Washington is not. On top of that, we were playing a safety at linebacker, making our run defense even weaker. On top of that, one of our starting corners was playing through a separated shoulder, which forces us to use less bump and run and more zone.

Quinn didn't suddenly forget how to coach defense. He just didn't have what he needed to compete well against a playoff-caliber team.

I'm not saying we've had great coaches. Parcells may have been the only one of those we've had other than Jimmy, and he didn't complete the rebuild he was doing before burning out (took him too long to find his QB IMO, but again, that's on the front office drafting Quincy Carter). However, as long as this front office leaves us with weak links that break against the best, I just have trouble blaming the coaches.

Looking back on Switzer, he won with what Jimmy built, but if you look at the drafts after Jimmy left, they were just awful. With talent leaving in free agency, and Jerry essentially only using expensive free agents to replace some of them, the weak links started breaking.

By the time Jerry figured out the value of the draft (after Parcells, but not immediately ... remember 2009), he and his son had devalued free agency, so the only way we had to fix weak links was the draft. We might patch one or two with a trade, but mostly low-value ones that were no better than the cheap FAs they would sign. Meanwhile, we can look at what Super Bowl champions were doing (with at least a high-value signing or two along with the other avenues of roster building) and see what works.

Sure, you've got to have the coaching, but it's hard for me to say McCarthy would not have been good enough with a few tweaks to personnel. Maybe he wouldn't have because I'm not saying his coaching was perfect, but I just have trouble blaming the coaching staff when this problem existed before any of them were hired here. The one constant has been the Joneses.
 
Pass2Run said:
I keep telling people this and the respond by saying McClay is a bum.

I'll never understand that because I realize scouting is not an exact science.

But, yes, they've done well recently.
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The problem remains the same. Our drafting is no worse than anyone else's and better than many teams. However, when you are only relying on the draft to improve your roster, the misses are going to stand out more.

Philadelphia missed badly on Jalen Reagor in 2020, the year we got Lamb. However, the Eagles put themselves in position to draft WR in the first again next year, getting DeVonta Smith and then traded for A.J. Brown the next year. Within two years, Reagor was a dim memory that was not holding Philly back.

We draft a bust like Taco Charlton in the first round and then don't take a DE in the first round (or even first three rounds) until four years later (and that player was actually a linebacker). Then on top of that, the only free agents/trades we get at the position are cheap: Kerry Hyder, Robert Quinn (who wasn't bad for a one-year rental but cost us only a sixth-round pick), Everson Griffin, Aldon Smith. None of those players is going to make anyone forget wasting a first-rounder on Charlton.
 
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