The DE Position (Feeling good about it?)

[Ultimategamer5567]

I'm really liking how it's shaping up, to be honest. D-Ware is going to be a force. And if Spencer can play half as well as he did last year Dallas will have one of the better edge rushing duos in the league. But behind them we've heard nothing but good things about Kyle Wilber so far from OTA's and mini-camp. Looks like they want Tyrone Crawford at the end position too. He is stronger and ready for action. I liked him out of college and thought he had a bright future as a pass rushing 4-3 DE. When dallas took him I thought he was playing out of position in the 3-4 but could still make things happen after getting adjusted to the NFL. Now that Dallas is back in the 4-3 the system Crawford is suited for best he is primed for a breakout year, IMO. Possibly our cost-effective Spencer replacement. I'm excited to see these guys line up on Sundays. Anyway... Go Cowboys!

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I'm pumped about defensive end, especially with all the glowing talk about Crawford and Wilber. Granted, it's just the underwear olympics, but there's something "different" about the reports this year. I can't quantify it. I can't say it's anything other than my own wishful thinking. But I can't deny I'm feeling it.

Provided the size of Ware and Spencer don't become a liability, they should constitute one of the best tandems in the league.

 

[CyberB0b]

I think we're set at end. DT has me concerned.

 

[visionary]

IMO, DL is a huge question mark

we have the players to be truly great at pressuring the QB but we also have the potential to be well below average since ware is getting up there in age and has been injured, Rat was out and is older and we are relying on several young players to make very very significant contributions

jury is out IMO

 

[Section446]

I'm a little concerned about the DL in general. To make this defense really work, all four players are going to have to play better than they've ever played, and I'm just not sure that we have the right combination of players to make that happen. I honestly think that the best DL we have on the team with the T2/C2 might be Hatcher.

 

[AsthmaField]

I'm a little concerned about the DL in general. To make this defense really work, all four players are going to have to play better than they've ever played, and I'm just not sure that we have the right combination of players to make that happen. I honestly think that the best DL we have on the team with the T2/C2 might be Hatcher.

Ware is going to have to play better than he's ever played for the defense to really work? Spencer is going to have to play better than he ever has, too? Ratliff has to play better than ever?

I can see you saying Hatcher has to play better than ever, but Ware, Spencer and Ratliff have all played at a pro bowl level in prior seasons. If we just get what has been normal for Ware and Ratliff, we will be fine there... and if Spencer plays as well as he did last year, we'll be good there as well.

Kind of a silly statement really.

Ware and Spencer should both get more chances to rush the passer than ever before, while also being asked to do much, MUCH less in coverage. Now, on every pass play, both DE's are going to be asked to fire off the ball and get to the QB - something they are both adept at. No more complicated schemes where Spencer drops into the flat or Ware runs to the middle to defend a pass. They are just going to have to fly upfield at the snap.

No, both Spencer and Ware are way more suited for this DE friendly defense.

As for Ratliff - you couldn't design a defense more suited to what he does well. It is going to have him singled up on a guard most of the time and man, he has eaten that alive on the few occasions he's actually seen it. Jay is extremely difficult for a guard to block one on one with his quickness. He is going to be on the outside shoulder of the guard most of the time and at the snap he is going to finally get to just go upfield and only worry about his gap in the run game. He was absolutely made to do that. He is way quicker than just about every guard in the league and frankly, I can't wait to see what he does in this system. I've been wanting him to play a 3-tech in a penetrating defense ever since I saw how dominant his first step is.

He is ideal for that spot.

All hatcher has to do is not screw it up in order for that D line to be very, VERY good.

 

[Future]

I have few questions about the talent on this DLine...the concern I have is health. You won't find a more explosive starting 4 than Ware, Rat, Hatcher, and Spencer, but there is a good possibility that, at any given time, two of those guys are hurt. The Dline will be outstanding if they can stay healthy, but I really doubt that will happen.

 

[conner01]

if they all stay healthy we will be fine. we don't have much proven depth but i think the starters will be fine. the real question is do we have the guy to replace spencer on the roster and we hopefully will know that by season end

 

[texbumthelife]

I may be in the minority, but I am actually more worried about Ware than Spencer. I think Ware will be getting double teamed by linemen more often, since our interior is so iffy. I think Spencer is more used to the physicality since he played the strong side. Ware still has a tendency to want to run around blocks, and that can't happen in this defense. He has also shown a tendency to wear down not only during the game, but as the season goes on. His health and depth behind him are very important for that reason. With no real proven commodities behind him this has to be a question mark.

All in all, I think Ware and Spencer's play is more closely related to how well the interior plays. If neither of our interior DL can beat single coverage (which outside of Rat before his injuries none, has shown they can) than Ware and Spencer are going to have a very hard time. Succesful Tampa-2 teams almost always feature and explosive upfield pass rushing DT. There is no real assurance that we have that player at this point.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The starting front 4 is good in my opinion... How good? Gotta wait unit TC to see how the parts mesh.

The depth at DE bothers me. I don't see that "Jim Jeffcoat" type who can come in and provide consistent pass rush while spelling Ware/Spencer.

I could see the team going "heavy" on the DL come next April May.

 

[AsthmaField]

The starting front 4 is good in my opinion... How good? Gotta wait unit TC to see how the parts mesh.

The depth at DE bothers me. I don't see that "Jim Jeffcoat" type who can come in and provide consistent pass rush while spelling Ware/Spencer.

I could see the team going "heavy" on the DL come next April May.

I really think Crawford is going to be a very, very solid SDE in this scheme. The guy is strong as an ox but is really pretty quick twitch considering his size. As much as defensive lines are rotating these days, I like what Crawford brings to the table a whole lot. I'm hoping he gets some snaps at the 3-tech in some certain passing situations too... but I don't know if the coaches are looking at that or not.

I think a nickle DL of Ware at WDE, Crawford at 3 tech, Ratliff at 1-tech, and Spencer at SDE would really put a lot of pressure on opposing QB's.

That's why I like Crawford so much as a backup to Spencer: If you need a big line to load up against the run, put Tyrone in at SDE (with Spencer in at WDE) and if you want a quick twitch DL against the pass, let him play the 3-tech with Ratliff at the 1.

With Crawford, he can give Spencer a break when he needs a breather, or he can give Ware a breather by moving Spencer over to WDE and Tyrone in at SDE. He gives the line a lot of versatility, IMO.

 

[iceman117]

Ware is going to have to play better than he's ever played for the defense to really work? Spencer is going to have to play better than he ever has, too? Ratliff has to play better than ever?

I can see you saying Hatcher has to play better than ever, but Ware, Spencer and Ratliff have all played at a pro bowl level in prior seasons. If we just get what has been normal for Ware and Ratliff, we will be fine there... and if Spencer plays as well as he did last year, we'll be good there as well.

Kind of a silly statement really.

Ware and Spencer should both get more chances to rush the passer than ever before, while also being asked to do much, MUCH less in coverage. Now, on every pass play, both DE's are going to be asked to fire off the ball and get to the QB - something they are both adept at. No more complicated schemes where Spencer drops into the flat or Ware runs to the middle to defend a pass. They are just going to have to fly upfield at the snap.

No, both Spencer and Ware are way more suited for this DE friendly defense.

As for Ratliff - you couldn't design a defense more suited to what he does well. It is going to have him singled up on a guard most of the time and man, he has eaten that alive on the few occasions he's actually seen it. Jay is extremely difficult for a guard to block one on one with his quickness. He is going to be on the outside shoulder of the guard most of the time and at the snap he is going to finally get to just go upfield and only worry about his gap in the run game. He was absolutely made to do that. He is way quicker than just about every guard in the league and frankly, I can't wait to see what he does in this system. I've been wanting him to play a 3-tech in a penetrating defense ever since I saw how dominant his first step is.

He is ideal for that spot.

All hatcher has to do is not screw it up in order for that D line to be very, VERY good.

Ratliffs health bothers me, plus he is a little undersized to be effective against the run in the 3technique but that's just my opinion, I hope they keep him fresh by letting Lissemore or Bass get a majority of the snaps on first and second down because I agree with you that a Guard will have their hands full trying to block him one on one... I think if we can get 5-8 sacks out of Ratliff this year that's a good year

 

[iceman117]

I really think Crawford is going to be a very, very solid SDE in this scheme. The guy is strong as an ox but is really pretty quick twitch considering his size. As much as defensive lines are rotating these days, I like what Crawford brings to the table a whole lot. I'm hoping he gets some snaps at the 3-tech in some certain passing situations too... but I don't know if the coaches are looking at that or not.

I think a nickle DL of Ware at WDE, Crawford at 3 tech, Ratliff at 1-tech, and Spencer at SDE would really put a lot of pressure on opposing QB's.

That's why I like Crawford so much as a backup to Spencer: If you need a big line to load up against the run, put Tyrone in at SDE (with Spencer in at WDE) and if you want a quick twitch DL against the pass, let him play the 3-tech with Ratliff at the 1.

With Crawford, he can give Spencer a break when he needs a breather, or he can give Ware a breather by moving Spencer over to WDE and Tyrone in at SDE. He gives the line a lot of versatility, IMO.

I also agree with you about it being silly to say that Ware,Spencer and Ratliff have to play better than ever before in that case we would need 40 sacks between 3 player for the defense "to work" lol, if we get 30 sacks between those 3 I think we would be in good shape

 

[starfrombirth]

I also agree with you about it being silly to say that Ware,Spencer and Ratliff have to play better than ever before in that case we would need 40 sacks between 3 player for the defense "to work" lol, if we get 30 sacks between those 3 I think we would be in good shape

I think it would be more about quality of sacks than quantity. I agree that they have put up good numbers but I would like to see more drive killing sacks than garbage time sacks. Hopefully the new scheme will allow that by letting our best pass rusher do that every play instead of having to defend the pass in the flat.

 

[GroundUp]

I'm very optimistic about the DE positions because the talent is there no doubt. I think the key is the depth as it allows for a steady rotation of Wilbur and Crawford, thus avoiding Ware and Spencer wearing down. The Giants (as much as I hate to acknowledge anything they've done right) I believe are a great example of a team that loads the D-Line with depth and rotates along the D-Line effectively, keeping everyone fresh and ready to attack. If the Cowboys can somewhat emulate that the D-Line will be a strength.

 

[xwalker]

I may be in the minority, but I am actually more worried about Ware than Spencer. I think Ware will be getting double teamed by linemen more often, since our interior is so iffy. I think Spencer is more used to the physicality since he played the strong side. Ware still has a tendency to want to run around blocks, and that can't happen in this defense. He has also shown a tendency to wear down not only during the game, but as the season goes on. His health and depth behind him are very important for that reason. With no real proven commodities behind him this has to be a question mark.

All in all, I think Ware and Spencer's play is more closely related to how well the interior plays. If neither of our interior DL can beat single coverage (which outside of Rat before his injuries none, has shown they can) than Ware and Spencer are going to have a very hard time. Succesful Tampa-2 teams almost always feature and explosive upfield pass rushing DT. There is no real assurance that we have that player at this point.

Kiffin primarily uses the 4-3-under which is designed to get both the WDE (Ware) and the WDT (Ratliff) 1-on-1 matchups. If Ware gets double-teamed, the 2nd blocker will most likely be a TE or FB/RB.

 

[Eskimo]

You may like the Giants but I'll take out set of DEs over theirs right now. JPP was a shell of himself in the second half of the year after several failed epidurals and just went for spine surgery after rehab failed to alleviate his problem in the offseason. Then you have Osi now in another uniform. Justin Tuck has really tailed off the last two years compared to his former level of play and I don't fear him at all anymore as a disruptor. Kiwi is okay as a sub in but he hasn't put up more than 4 sacks in quite a few years now. They drafted Demontre Moore who really fell down far in the draft in the 3rd round - it'll be interesting to see how he does in the pros with very little quick twitch musculature. I actually have higher hopes for our guy from 2012, Kyle Wilber who ran a 4.64 40 with a really good 10-yard split (same as Ware) and who can really play in space well attacking which is what he'll be asked to do.

The other guy is Crawford who at 285 pounds can run a legit 4.8 and shows a lot of quick twitch explosiveness on the field. Now that he is playing 20 pounds lighter we should notice a difference in his explosiveness up the field much more in the new scheme. This is a guy who should improve for awhile because of how green he has been as a football player. I would be shocked if we didn't see a big jump in his play this year and he was pretty decent as a rookie considering his background.

 

[xwalker]

I really think Crawford is going to be a very, very solid SDE in this scheme. The guy is strong as an ox but is really pretty quick twitch considering his size. As much as defensive lines are rotating these days, I like what Crawford brings to the table a whole lot. I'm hoping he gets some snaps at the 3-tech in some certain passing situations too... but I don't know if the coaches are looking at that or not.

I think a nickle DL of Ware at WDE, Crawford at 3 tech, Ratliff at 1-tech, and Spencer at SDE would really put a lot of pressure on opposing QB's.

That's why I like Crawford so much as a backup to Spencer: If you need a big line to load up against the run, put Tyrone in at SDE (with Spencer in at WDE) and if you want a quick twitch DL against the pass, let him play the 3-tech with Ratliff at the 1.

With Crawford, he can give Spencer a break when he needs a breather, or he can give Ware a breather by moving Spencer over to WDE and Tyrone in at SDE. He gives the line a lot of versatility, IMO.

Your posts in this thread have been good.

I agree that an alternate to having Wilber play WDE to rest Ware is to have Spencer at WDE with Crawford at SDE.

 

[xwalker]

You may like the Giants but I'll take out set of DEs over theirs right now. JPP was a shell of himself in the second half of the year after several failed epidurals and just went for spine surgery after rehab failed to alleviate his problem in the offseason. Then you have Osi now in another uniform. Justin Tuck has really tailed off the last two years compared to his former level of play and I don't fear him at all anymore as a disruptor. Kiwi is okay as a sub in but he hasn't put up more than 4 sacks in quite a few years now. They drafted Demontre Moore who really fell down far in the draft in the 3rd round - it'll be interesting to see how he does in the pros with very little quick twitch musculature. I actually have higher hopes for our guy from 2012, Kyle Wilber who ran a 4.64 40 with a really good 10-yard split (same as Ware) and who can really play in space well attacking which is what he'll be asked to do.

The other guy is Crawford who at 285 pounds can run a legit 4.8 and shows a lot of quick twitch explosiveness on the field. Now that he is playing 20 pounds lighter we should notice a difference in his explosiveness up the field much more in the new scheme. This is a guy who should improve for awhile because of how green he has been as a football player. I would be shocked if we didn't see a big jump in his play this year and he was pretty decent as a rookie considering his background.

I'm anxious to see Wilber at WDE. I'm confident that Crawford will be fine on the other side, but Wilber is an unknown at this point.

 

[tm1119]

Not sure how anybody can feel so go about 2 mid round picks who have shown nothing in the NFL. Not saying they can't step up this year and be productive players, but to say they aren't a huge question mark is pretty naive in my opinion. DT is a whole different question mark. If Rat doesn't bounce back and stay healthy we could be in some trouble there.