The defense has forced 12 turnovers through six games

[ethiostar]

There you go. Again, Ryan's D and Kiffin's are producing about equivalent turnovers...but N.O. has been stronger in yards and points allowed.

I don't follow NO that closely so I don't know....what is their injury status look like on defense? Well, compared to Dallas, at least.

 

[Tex]

Okay. I could care less about Rob Ryan's Saints. I just feel like the defense hasn't looked better than the defense from last year. If we are greatly improved in the turnover department, then maybe the switch to Kiffen and the 4-3 was worth it..

Oh come on you have got to be kidding me. Kiffens D is based on getting pressure on the QB and we are running out a handful of big guys we collected off some street corner. Spencer down, ratlif down. Ware down.

I mean ***? The fact we are not getting BLOWN OUT every game with the DL we are shoving out there is a testament to Kiffen and Marrinelli for Petes sake. We are running two rookies that are basically just starting and are a key to the tampa 2 and 3 starters on the line that are lucky to have a slot on anyone 53 man roster but us. We have street guys basically at 3 out of the 4 line positions?

The new scheme is the only reason we have any shot at all on Sundays.

 

[jobberone]

Well, that was interesting.

 

[BaybeeJay]

The point is the only thing this defense does better than last year is force TOs and it's not even that much better since the Giants game.

An N of 5, while only removing the outlier that helps your argument, is too skewed and small a sample set to make predictions about future production. If we remove the other outlier, the Chiefs game in which they failed to force a turnover, you have 6 turnovers over a 4 game span. That's good for 24 turnovers a season, which is roughly an average defense. To take a defense that was one of the worst at forcing turnovers, and turn them into average, would be remarkable.

The only games in which you needed the defense to force more turnovers is the Chiefs and Chargers game. In their third loss, to Denver, it would be very unlikely to force more than 2 turnovers. In their other lackluster turnover game, against the Rams, it was unnecessary.

Much more concerning is the lack of a pass rush against elite teams, rather than this debatable inability to force turnovers.

 

[bayeslife]

So we're -1 outside of the Giants game.

Also, we forced 6 turnovers in the past 5 games, which is about the rate we were last year.

Unfortunately, you can't just take games away because you want to cherry pick. The Giants game happened, get over it.

 

[Risen Star]

I'll take the Saints defense over ours. Six ways to Sunday.

Now excuse me while I smoke a stogie with Rob.

 

[bayeslife]

Hey guys, if you take away the Denver game, our defense is only allowing 20 point per game on average! That's pretty darn solid!

If you take away every game except the Rams game, we are beating on our opponents 31-7 on average!

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Please I've been saying since before he was drafted he was overrated. So you cherry pick one stat? If you can't read the defense you are not a QB. He torched everyone last year because if the read option play and defenses allowed players to get open.

Ok to think he's overrated is one thing. The guy is out there hurt but whatever. But how on earth did you watch him in college and think he was overrated?

 

[CowboyStar88]

Ok to think he's overrated is one thing. The guy is out there hurt but whatever. But how on earth did you watch him in college and think he was overrated?

Always felt it was the system. I stick by that claim with Baylor turning out WR after WR and the fact that last year they brought in some scrub and he put up just as good if numbers as RGOverrated. Who cares he isn't accurate he is a "one read" QB and he throws a ton of screens. Sorry not my definition of a good QB. He's been hyped and hyped and hyped. Take away his running ability and he just isn't that good. It's my opinion you obviously like the guy. He's a whiner case in point he texts Carr after cares comments last night? I mean really? The guy is a media hound and slowly showing the diva side. Sorry I will take Wilson Luck Kap RT before I would kick the tires on him. If Dallas traded for him or signed him I would stop watching them been a fan for 30 years. It's my opinion and others agree with me. He will be out of the league in 5 years

 

[Tabascocat]

Always felt it was the system. I stick by that claim with Baylor turning out WR after WR and the fact that last year they brought in some scrub and he put up just as good if numbers as RGOverrated. Who cares he isn't accurate he is a "one read" QB and he throws a ton of screens. Sorry not my definition of a good QB. He's been hyped and hyped and hyped. Take away his running ability and he just isn't that good. It's my opinion you obviously like the guy. He's a whiner case in point he texts Carr after cares comments last night? I mean really? The guy is a media hound and slowly showing the diva side. Sorry I will take Wilson Luck Kap RT before I would kick the tires on him. If Dallas traded for him or signed him I would stop watching them been a fan for 30 years. It's my opinion and others agree with me. He will be out of the league in 5 years

I'm with you on this one. Take away his legs(one in this case), and he becomes a sub-par QB. Last night was proof to me. He will not remain in the NFL(as a starter) if he doesn't start running again. Just because your good in College, does not mean it translates, see Vince, Tebow, Leinhart, etc. IMO, Wash would have been better off with Cousins and using those other picks on help around him.

If RG3 stayed injury-free, he could be a good QB but he won't, those knees can't take much more. It is only a matter of time.........................

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Always felt it was the system. I stick by that claim with Baylor turning out WR after WR and the fact that last year they brought in some scrub and he put up just as good if numbers as RGOverrated. Who cares he isn't accurate he is a "one read" QB and he throws a ton of screens. Sorry not my definition of a good QB. He's been hyped and hyped and hyped. Take away his running ability and he just isn't that good. It's my opinion you obviously like the guy. He's a whiner case in point he texts Carr after cares comments last night? I mean really? The guy is a media hound and slowly showing the diva side. Sorry I will take Wilson Luck Kap RT before I would kick the tires on him. If Dallas traded for him or signed him I would stop watching them been a fan for 30 years. It's my opinion and others agree with me. He will be out of the league in 5 years

Seemed pretty accurate last year.

And LOL at him being out if the league in 5 years. Matt Cassel and Ryan Fitzpatrick started games last weekend.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Seemed pretty accurate last year.

And LOL at him being out if the league in 5 years. Matt Cassel and Ryan Fitzpatrick started games last weekend.

It was the system. Everyone got caught off guard by that system. He had huge holes to throw the ball in. He isn't a QB that will fit it in a tight spot. Backups and Cassel and Fitz suck. Terrible QBs but that's how depleted the league is right now with decent backups.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Always felt it was the system. I stick by that claim with Baylor turning out WR after WR and the fact that last year they brought in some scrub and he put up just as good if numbers as RGOverrated. Who cares he isn't accurate he is a "one read" QB and he throws a ton of screens. Sorry not my definition of a good QB. He's been hyped and hyped and hyped. Take away his running ability and he just isn't that good. It's my opinion you obviously like the guy. He's a whiner case in point he texts Carr after cares comments last night? I mean really? The guy is a media hound and slowly showing the diva side. Sorry I will take Wilson Luck Kap RT before I would kick the tires on him. If Dallas traded for him or signed him I would stop watching them been a fan for 30 years. It's my opinion and others agree with me. He will be out of the league in 5 years

You would stop being a Cowboys fan if we traded for RGIII? What? So now its personal with him?

I just don't know how anyone watched him DOMINATE last season and in college could think he's overrated and "not accurate". He's not accurate but you said he only had success because he has one read. I don't know it seems more personal with him. I like the kid. He's a young qb. He'll get better. This talk as if he's a finished product is insane. If any other QB had his injury they wouldn't even be playing right now. But he's out right after tearing his ACL and his injuries to his knee.....he's being judged when he's had to figure out just in his sophomore year how to play different than he has his whole career.

 

[CowboyStar88]

You would stop being a Cowboys fan if we traded for RGIII? What? So now its personal with him?

I just don't know how anyone watched him DOMINATE last season and in college could think he's overrated and "not accurate". He's not accurate but you said he only had success because he has one read. I don't know it seems more personal with him. I like the kid. He's a young qb. He'll get better. This talk as if he's a finished product is insane. If any other QB had his injury they wouldn't even be playing right now. But he's out right after tearing his ACL and his injuries to his knee.....he's being judged when he's had to figure out just in his sophomore year how to play different than he has his whole career.

Did I say I would quit as a fan? I said I would stop watching. I won't give directv my 300 bucks a year or spend money on game tickets and memorabilia. Not personal just don't like him. I think he is arrogant and it's starting to show. Nobody said you had to agree with me. I could careless about the Commanders and their overrated overhyped QB. This is a Cowboys board and I care about the Cowboys. I don't root for rival players or their teams and I wish nothing but garbage for them. That's the way it's always been and that's the way it will always be.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

...and are on pace to force 34 turnovers on the season.

In 2012, we forced 16 turnovers for the season.

Amazing turnaround.

It's very nice. It would be even better if half of them didn't come in one game.

But they started to get the ball out a bit again Sunday so maybe we're about to start taking it away a little more regularly.

 

[Venger]

Outside that Giants game, we also have a losing record. It's not an outlier. Turnovers win and lose games in the NFL.

+5 differential games are outliers. That's why the best models screen outliers or have a proper sample size. If you want to make anything about the turnover situation this year, you had better treat that game as what it was - the kind you see once every few years.

Yes, but we haven't played 16 games. A full 16.7% of our games are extremely high turnover games. If we wind up victimizing another team that gives the ball away a lot later this year then that average will hold up. But those games are in the future. All we've got are six results so lopping off one of them at an outlier isn't valid. There's next to nothing to conclude about this extremely small sample size statistically.

The extremely small sample size exaggerates the effect of the outlier - it's why you need to be especially careful when trying to draw meaningful trends when they are included.

If it isn't football then it's car sales - if you are projecting for the year based on an outlier result in a small sample size, you are bound for disappointment. One game is skewing these numbers.

 

[Idgit]

+5 differential games are outliers. That's why the best models screen outliers or have a proper sample size. If you want to make anything about the turnover situation this year, you had better treat that game as what it was - the kind you see once every few years.

I know what an 'outlier' is. The point is, without those turnovers, we don't win that game. And without winning that game, the team has a losing record on the season right now. So removing those Giants turnovers from the discussion re: turnovers winning games is begging a question.

It doesn't matter that that particular game was statistically aberrant when it comes to determining the importance of controlling the ball. The sample size re: the importance of turnovers in the league right now is sufficiently large. We know how important they are to winning games. If it matters, had we coughed the ball up 6 times, and lost as a result, in that game instead, the turnovers would still be a determining factor in the outcome of that game.

 

[Venger]

I don't think we are arguing to any real point here, in the context of the thread, which doesn't really ask if turnovers win games (talk about begging a question...). Emphasizing the defenses turnover performance seems to me to be the germane point, and since we can't play Eli - leading the league in picks - every week, it is important we don't let that one game say more than it does.

Thankfully, we DO get to play Eli every eighth week...

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Did I say I would quit as a fan? I said I would stop watching. I won't give directv my 300 bucks a year or spend money on game tickets and memorabilia. Not personal just don't like him. I think he is arrogant and it's starting to show. Nobody said you had to agree with me. I could careless about the Commanders and their overrated overhyped QB. This is a Cowboys board and I care about the Cowboys. I don't root for rival players or their teams and I wish nothing but garbage for them. That's the way it's always been and that's the way it will always be.

Oh i'm no Deadskins fan or a RGIII fan either. But it seems like your trying to belittle the Cowboy's defense by trying to downplay how good of a QB RGIII is. He's not a bad quarterback and this defense shouldn't feel any sort of shame about their performance towards him.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Oh i'm no Deadskins fan or a RGIII fan either. But it seems like your trying to belittle the Cowboy's defense by trying to downplay how good of a QB RGIII is. He's not a bad quarterback and this defense shouldn't feel any sort of shame about their performance towards him.

I'm not belittling the defense at all. I thought what they did was good. Especially being beaten 2 times by that silly offense and with a banged up Dline. I think you are confusing my hate for him as putting down our team. I've been defending the turnovers in this thread. I merely replied to someone else about this bum. If you see my history on the subject of RGOverrated I've haven't changed. Sorry if it appears I'm belittling the defense and that is far from the truth. What was displayed in Sunday night is what I've been saying about him and when CC brought up the one read deal I knew I wasn't losing my mind about that. I don't get how this turd gets so much hype and such a pass by the media and fans. You can see the arrogant personality coming out in him more and more. He just seems like a fake IMO