The Elite QB Farce

Hadenough

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There are 3 QBs better than Prescott in the playoffs right now with the Titans getting hot on defense with a dominating ground game never seen in the NFL post-season.

Yeah, good luck getting to the Super Bowl relying on outliers and a middling QB without an elite defense. Also the Super Bowls since 2010

Brady x3
Rodgers
Eli and Peyton Manning
Flacco
Foles
Wilson

Go look up how Flacco and Foles had to play to get to the Super Bowl. Again, good luck with relying on outliers to win one. Also, good luck paying a middling QB elite QB money and thinking you can get a 2012 Ravens D that sticks around long enough to win one.
Tannehill isnt throwing for many yds but he is very efficient. He definitely throws a better ball than Dak. Stronger arm too.
 

ondaedg

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And Jimmy G had 10 more takeaways and much better field position than our 32nd ranked DVOA.
 

Diehardblues

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Russell wasn’t when he won a Super Bowl either. Russell is elite now. And has always been super talented. But he didn’t develop into elite status until 4 years in the league. He won the championship before that happened.
Correct .

During that Rookie contract window along with a generational defense that was eventually ripped apart with Cap. Now Wilson is carrying them without the supporting cast.
 

ondaedg

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Yes they did but they were the exception.

Marino and Fouts teams were serious contenders their entire career despite their supporting cast. The Bus drivers needed complete teams around them to contend.

Sure, we can win it with Dak but he’s going to need more support than a Mahomes will.

Mahomes is a super talent no doubt. Flick of a wrist he does whatever he wants.
 

thunderpimp91

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Garrett got Romo killed by trying to keep him in the pocket at all costs.
I would argue the Jerry putting more emphasis on skill players over guys in the trenches got Romo killed for years. The days of starting Phil Costa, Bill Nagy, etc were pretty scary.

I'm confused about your position keysersoze. You seem to be very much about needing a whole team to win championships, and I agree with that 1000%, no one wins by themselves. So do you pay Dak? That's the questions that stays in my mind that really hasn't been answered in this thread, and i'm not sure i know the answer to that one either.

I know Dak is good enough to win a superbowl, but you lose a Byron Jones and a Robert Quinn this year, maybe you lose a Michael Gallop in a couple years. Are you a better team down the road because you locked up Dak, but lost some really solid support pieces?
 

buybuydandavis

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There are 3 QBs better than Prescott in the playoffs right now with the Titans getting hot on defense with a dominating ground game never seen in the NFL post-season.

Yeah, good luck getting to the Super Bowl relying on outliers and a middling QB without an elite defense. Also the Super Bowls since 2010

Brady x3
Rodgers
Eli and Peyton Manning
Flacco
Foles
Wilson

Go look up how Flacco and Foles had to play to get to the Super Bowl. Again, good luck with relying on outliers to win one. Also, good luck paying a middling QB elite QB money and thinking you can get a 2012 Ravens D that sticks around long enough to win one.

You can go back to Aikman with that analysis. Vast majority of SBs won by QBs either with or soon to be with gold jackets.
 

HungryLion

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Correct .

During that Rookie contract window along with a generational defense that was eventually ripped apart with Cap. Now Wilson is carrying them without the supporting cast.


Correct.

The cap implications of signing the QB long term are concerning.

No argument there.

But I do think it’s fair to say you don’t “need” an elite QB to win a Super Bowl. It certainly gets harder when the QB is making big money though, to build an entire team.

However, if you look at the QB lists. All of them named were either Good QB’s or get really hot and had streaks of excellent play.

which also tells me. If you move on from your current good QB and then Whiff on drafting one and have poor QB play. You can also bank on not winning a Super Bowl.

that happens very infrequently.
 

Hadenough

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I've seen so much of that here. "Got to have an elite QB" and "can't get it done without that elite QB".

The only thing I agree with is that the Cowboys do not have an elite QB and he probably won't ever be considered that.

Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson, Watson all have been mentioned with as that old guard elite or the new guard. Mahomes is in that group and along with Rodgers, the only ones left in the playoffs and is Rodgers there because he's played elite this season or is it the RB and DE's? And the fact that Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring doesn't seem to matter.

Did you catch Brees, Jackson, Wilson and Watson trying to lift their teams? Or did you catch Tannehill in his last two playoff games with <200 yards? Which is it better to have? The QB to lift the team or the team to support the QB? Ask Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson and Watson.

This is not about Prescott, it is about every team has to build around the QB and Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are proof. Elway was elite and he wouldn't have any rings if not for a HC and RB and an offensive philosophical change..

Roger and Troy had to have teams around them, same with Starr, Bradshaw, Montana and Brady wasn't that bad this season, the team around him wasn't the usual standard.

It's one thing we've seen, different kinds of teams can do it different ways, there isn't just one template. Get that elite QB and ride the wave. This isn't baseball when they can ride a pitcher or two.

I do not think if the Cowboys had any of those elite QB's this season, it would have been much different.
Of course you need to build around elite QBs. But they dont need 90 mil dollar RBs and 100mil invested in the oline. When you have to invest that much into offense the defense lacks quality.
 

HungryLion

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Of course you need to build around elite QBs. But they dont need 90 mil dollar RBs and 100mil invested in the oline. When you have to invest that much into offense the defense lacks quality.


They were making those kinds of investments when Romo was QB too. Toward the end. Some things the FO never learns.
 

Diehardblues

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Mahomes is a super talent no doubt. Flick of a wrist he does whatever he wants.
How much difference does that make?

Which team will be easier to build around and probably stay a contender without as much support every year?

How much better and further does our team go with a QB like Mahomes?
 

Kwyn

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The worst possible scenario is having an avg QB paid as an elite QB.
Elite money today is average money in three years.

people freaking out about Dak’s payday don’t seem to realize that Mahomes is about to get over 200m and 40+ per year.
 

keysersoze

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I didn’t say you were a casual fan . I just said that’s how casual fans often evaluate.

I’m 66 years old . Been around for the entire ride of the Cowboys.

This notion that making it to playoffs, championship games and Super Bowls is meaningless unless you win it is hogwash.
It’s not hogwash. The ultimate goal is the Super Bowl. Ain’t that the topic of this discussion?
 

willia451

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There has only ever been one elite QB I've ever seen. Joe Montana.

There have been some great ones if they had the right supporting cast. Tom Brady. Rodgers. Aikman. Bradshaw. Even Staubach. Some others.

But there has never been anyone like Montana. Before or since.

He's the only QB I've ever seen that could win a playoff game deep in the playoffs virtually single handed if necessary.

Elite is off the table.

Now if you want to talk about great..............2nd tier really, we can have that conversation all day long.

And Dak is NOT one of them.

I would say good. Maybe even has the potential to be very good. And in today's NFL, that seems to command 30+ million.

Sad times.
 

Diehardblues

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Rodgers has only won one championship. But he’s been to 5 championship games and playoffs like all but one year he standing.

Packers are always in it regardless the team around him.
 

Diehardblues

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It’s not hogwash. The ultimate goal is the Super Bowl. Ain’t that the topic of this discussion?
Of course but it’s not an all or nothing.

Greatness is measured by more than winning a championship. Like consistently contending for them.
 

thunderpimp91

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Elite money today is average money in three years.

people freaking out about Dak’s payday don’t seem to realize that Mahomes is about to get over 200m and 40+ per year.

OK, but most reports are that Dak wants a shorter term deal so that he can re up that contract in 3-4 years. Plus you still have to manage the cap for those 3 years where that is still elite money.
 

Diehardblues

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There has only ever been one elite QB I've ever seen. Joe Montana.

There have been some great ones if they had the right supporting cast. Tom Brady. Rodgers. Aikman. Bradshaw. Even Staubach. Some others.

But there has never been anyone like Montana. Before or since.

He's the only QB I've ever seen that could win a playoff game deep in the playoffs virtually single handed if necessary.

Elite is off the table.

Now if you want to talk about great..............2nd tier really, we can have that conversation all day long.

And Dak is NOT one of them.

I would say good. Maybe even has the potential to be very good. And in today's NFL, that seems to command 30+ million.

Sad times.
Montana was surrounded by an all star cast himself in SF ( while I agree one of the greatest) and why he couldn’t win a Super Bowl in Kansas City.
 

Big_D

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I've seen so much of that here. "Got to have an elite QB" and "can't get it done without that elite QB".

The only thing I agree with is that the Cowboys do not have an elite QB and he probably won't ever be considered that.

Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson, Watson all have been mentioned with as that old guard elite or the new guard. Mahomes is in that group and along with Rodgers, the only ones left in the playoffs and is Rodgers there because he's played elite this season or is it the RB and DE's? And the fact that Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring doesn't seem to matter.

Did you catch Brees, Jackson, Wilson and Watson trying to lift their teams? Or did you catch Tannehill in his last two playoff games with <200 yards? Which is it better to have? The QB to lift the team or the team to support the QB? Ask Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson and Watson.

This is not about Prescott, it is about every team has to build around the QB and Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are proof. Elway was elite and he wouldn't have any rings if not for a HC and RB and an offensive philosophical change..

Roger and Troy had to have teams around them, same with Starr, Bradshaw, Montana and Brady wasn't that bad this season, the team around him wasn't the usual standard.

It's one thing we've seen, different kinds of teams can do it different ways, there isn't just one template. Get that elite QB and ride the wave. This isn't baseball when they can ride a pitcher or two.

I do not think if the Cowboys had any of those elite QB's this season, it would have been much different.


Some around here talk like it only takes 1 person to win. The other 52 should just stay home. Tannehill is really making Vrabel look good. lol
 

keysersoze

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I would argue the Jerry putting more emphasis on skill players over guys in the trenches got Romo killed for years. The days of starting Phil Costa, Bill Nagy, etc were pretty scary.

I'm confused about your position keysersoze. You seem to be very much about needing a whole team to win championships, and I agree with that 1000%, no one wins by themselves. So do you pay Dak? That's the questions that stays in my mind that really hasn't been answered in this thread, and i'm not sure i know the answer to that one either.

I know Dak is good enough to win a superbowl, but you lose a Byron Jones and a Robert Quinn this year, maybe you lose a Michael Gallop in a couple years. Are you a better team down the road because you locked up Dak, but lost some really solid support pieces?
We pay Dak because it’s the going rate right now. We know we can win with him. Replacing him is more of a gamble than paying him. So what do you suggest? It’s ironic that I didn’t see much opposition to Romo getting paid for similar results though. Now all of a sudden the fans want frugality. SMDH
 
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