The Fullback in McCarthy's offense

Bullflop

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what offensive changes?

KMoore is running the offense. 8/

That's an assumption on my part that they'll be forthcoming. I'm also assuming, be it realistic or not, that MM will eventually integrate what he believes to be appropriate for his schematic methods to succeed. i think KMoore is there to buffer the shock in the interim, while MM has a chance to introduce his schematic plans in the approaching future. Will it hopefully come to fruition? No guarantees are in place. Please stay tuned.

If I'm wrong, may the football gods smite me and cause me irreparable harm. In the upcoming meantime, I'm standing firm in my beliefs that the coming year will be one of adjustment and MM changes to be incrementally introduced. God, help us all with the possible backlashes that might need to be untangled in the foreseeable future. Those assigned to correct it will be challenged. :D
 
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quickccc

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I would like to see the use of a traditional FB, one who has the versatility to do everything; block, run, catch, etc. 49ers is the best example of how to use a FB effectively, it could be a real nice weapon within a offense. Garrett preferred the use of multiple TE's. The team's personnel just doesn't have such a player. Jarwin in my opinion, is more of an H-Back type of player.

The position is slowly being faded out kind of like the strong safety position. Colleges are using less and less traditional FB's. We are seeing the position have little to no value in the draft process.

Ditto here.
i too would to see the FB and truth be told much like the Packers used a John Kuhn in his prime. Lead block first, with occasional
change up " surprise" catch and run, all catered to what that FBs' skill set is

- But that lead block could come in a varied of formations - McCarthy has been known to use "split-back formations (with no TE's)
with his lead blocking FB, and i'd like to " occasionally" use that FB as a blocker, as a change up and a different look to the defense
not on the field on a full time basis.
.
- If that FB has a physicality about him, he can help in lead blocks,.. however if that FB ala Olawele) does not have a physical sense to his game, he's not gonna be useful in that way, he'll just be a back that stops and leans to shield that in the hole tackler who could shed him quickly and make the key stop. In Olawele, we're basically using a big RB who has no lead blocking physicality about him.

- And a few here can talk about giving him touches, but if i had to put another RB in the same backfield, then i'd rather give
those catch/run touches to a Tony Pollard than Olawele.
 

quickccc

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I would like to see the use of a traditional FB, one who has the versatility to do everything; block, run, catch, etc. 49ers is the best example of how to use a FB effectively, it could be a real nice weapon within a offense. Garrett preferred the use of multiple TE's. The team's personnel just doesn't have such a player. Jarwin in my opinion, is more of an H-Back type of player.

The position is slowly being faded out kind of like the strong safety position. Colleges are using less and less traditional FB's. We are seeing the position have little to no value in the draft process.

( A Look Kyle Shanahan's zone run scheme offense)







Since you made mentioned of Kyle Shanahan's zone run scheme, Please check out the Samuel Gold Film Room vids above
where we see the FB in various lined up formations, some I formation, and some split -back and off the outside corner.

This is why i'm very intrigued with a zone scheme running concept and McCarthy's run-scheme formation.
Dunno how much/how close we can come to Shanahan's zone slant run scheme but just hope our version of zone scheme
has some similarities to it.
 

Cowboyny

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( A Look Kyle Shanahan's zone run scheme offense)







Since you made mentioned of Kyle Shanahan's zone run scheme, Please check out the Samuel Gold Film Room vids above
where we see the FB in various lined up formations, some I formation, and some split -back and off the outside corner.

This is why i'm very intrigued with a zone scheme running concept and McCarthy's run-scheme formation.
Dunno how much/how close we can come to Shanahan's zone slant run scheme but just hope our version of zone scheme
has some similarities to it.


Excellent find! Remember, Shanahan's father with his legendary OL Coach Gibbs were highly successful running that zone blocking scheme. We used to hear that they can turn any rb into a 1k rusher in their system. Clearly his son has adopted similar concepts in their rushing attack. I am all for implementing a similar system here, just don't know if we have the right personnel yet. We do know MM has a history of the use of a FB and is an integral player within a west coast offense, let's see if he brings it here to Dallas.
 

quickccc

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Excellent find! Remember, Shanahan's father with his legendary OL Coach Gibbs were highly successful running that zone blocking scheme. We used to hear that they can turn any rb into a 1k rusher in their system. Clearly his son has adopted similar concepts in their rushing attack. I am all for implementing a similar system here, just don't know if we have the right personnel yet. We do know MM has a history of the use of a FB and is an integral player within a west coast offense, let's see if he brings it here to Dallas.

As far as a Kyle Shanahan like run scheme system, we most definitely have the right personnel. This is an OL that has physical talent
and athleticism just as much as the Niners, We know our OGs are athletic enough, we know our OTs are athletic and talented enough.
-We can root people out by muscle, and we can trap and pull with the best with our mobility and athleticism,
-and we most certainly have RBs better than whatever is in Niners land with Zeke and Pollard - perfect one cut runners for that type scheme.
- And Dak is a master at ball handling and play action fakes, mis-directions would be a wonderful tool here.

Actually i'm actually surprised you'd be worried about us Not having the right player personnel for that type scheme.

- And Kyle's system has exceeded his father Mike way of zone run blocking, as with the dad, who seemed to depended
on much smaller OL guys for that pulling/slanting mobility, while Kyle has adapted to todays' era of bigger linemen that
still possess that kind of mobility to trap and pull and counter trey.

- I love it because not only does it bring much more versatility and splash run capability, but the misdirection is a counter scheme
vs run gaps and stunts. With opposing teams getting caught out of position so much, mass confusion and
the fear of the big long runs, they won't be as cocky with coming with overloads, stunts, games up front.

-Apparently Columbo preferred the 90's Cowboys man up mauling style ,and adding ex- Cowboys OL coach and
OL consultant Hudson Houck tends to confirm that philosophy.
But since Columbo was actually a student under departed Frank Pollard who implemented the zone block scheme which he himself learned from Bill Callahan, i was very surprised McCarthy did not give Marc a chance at running MM's zone scheme.. vs handing it over to his buddy
Joe Philibin.

-Cowboys finished 2nd in the entire NFL in least sacks allowed and we did have a 1300 rushing RB.
But MM has the right to hire and place the coaches he feels best fit what he prefers and he wanted to hit the ground running i guess.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I would simply say this. Moore is not completely devoid of using a FB in an Offense. While at Boise State, they did run a FB, while Moore was there so I do think he will some familiarity there.
 

Cowboyny

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As far as a Kyle Shanahan like run scheme system, we most definitely have the right personnel. This is an OL that has physical talent
and athleticism just as much as the Niners, We know our OGs are athletic enough, we know our OTs are athletic and talented enough.
-We can root people out by muscle, and we can trap and pull with the best with our mobility and athleticism,
-and we most certainly have RBs better than whatever is in Niners land with Zeke and Pollard - perfect one cut runners for that type scheme.
- And Dak is a master at ball handling and play action fakes, mis-directions would be a wonderful tool here.

Actually i'm actually surprised you'd be worried about us Not having the right player personnel for that type scheme.

- And Kyle's system has exceeded his father Mike way of zone run blocking, as with the dad, who seemed to depended
on much smaller OL guys for that pulling/slanting mobility, while Kyle has adapted to todays' era of bigger linemen that
still possess that kind of mobility to trap and pull and counter trey.

- I love it because not only does it bring much more versatility and splash run capability, but the misdirection is a counter scheme
vs run gaps and stunts. With opposing teams getting caught out of position so much, mass confusion and
the fear of the big long runs, they won't be as cocky with coming with overloads, stunts, games up front.

-Apparently Columbo preferred the 90's Cowboys man up mauling style ,and adding ex- Cowboys OL coach and
OL consultant Hudson Houck tends to confirm that philosophy.
But since Columbo was actually a student under departed Frank Pollard who implemented the zone block scheme which he himself learned from Bill Callahan, i was very surprised McCarthy did not give Marc a chance at running MM's zone scheme.. vs handing it over to his buddy
Joe Philibin.

-Cowboys finished 2nd in the entire NFL in least sacks allowed and we did have a 1300 rushing RB.
But MM has the right to hire and place the coaches he feels best fit what he prefers and he wanted to hit the ground running i guess.

-What I meant about the right personnel, I was referencing the FB position. The offense certainly has the other pieces in place.
-Good catch about the size of the linemen with his son's scheme. I believe finding good, mobile big lineman years ago was far more difficult then it is today.
-Zeke fits as an one cut runner, with good vision and patience. He should excel in the change of schemes.
-Yes, the line was clearly better in pass protection then in opening rush lanes last season. A player like Collins excelled better in this scheme.
-Something happened behind the scenes with Columbo. We heard in season he refused to to give Travis poor game grades and when MM was hired to reportedly was very impatient and expressed his concerns directly to Jerry.
-I know the offense became more of a passing one last season, but they have to bring back an elite rushing attack, that will open up everything.
 

plasticman

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Being a fullback used to be a fulltime job. We had guys like Walt Garrison, Robert Newhouse, Daryl Johnston....the latter two were 2nd round draft picks. They had serious touches, even Johnston who averaged about 50 receptions a season.

Nowadays they are special teamers with the added duty of being a blocking back about 5 plays a game. Maybe they should just give the duty to the backup TE.

How many times a year are we going to see a thread discussing the position of fullback? This is a rarity.
 

quickccc

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-What I meant about the right personnel, I was referencing the FB position. The offense certainly has the other pieces in place.
-Good catch about the size of the linemen with his son's scheme. I believe finding good, mobile big lineman years ago was far more difficult then it is today.
-Zeke fits as an one cut runner, with good vision and patience. He should excel in the change of schemes.
-Yes, the line was clearly better in pass protection then in opening rush lanes last season. A player like Collins excelled better in this scheme.
-Something happened behind the scenes with Columbo. We heard in season he refused to to give Travis poor game grades and when MM was hired to reportedly was very impatient and expressed his concerns directly to Jerry.
-I know the offense became more of a passing one last season, but they have to bring back an elite rushing attack, that will open up everything.

ok , thanks for explaining the FB as the right personnel
Interesting about Marc Columbo issues, i'd heard that bout Fredrick's favortism but not going over MM's head to Jerry.

i only wish two things if we continue to be a more passing team:
1) Don't abandon the run- Kellen will do that, i am truly hoping McCarthy does not
2) Continue to push the ball downfield vertically. i love Kellen's route designs, pre-snap motion, huddle pace and how we push
the ball vertically but i continue to be confused how Kellen's rhythm time based offense will mixes/blend with McCarthy's
West Coast version.
 

quickccc

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Being a fullback used to be a fulltime job. We had guys like Walt Garrison, Robert Newhouse, Daryl Johnston....the latter two were 2nd round draft picks. They had serious touches, even Johnston who averaged about 50 receptions a season.

Nowadays they are special teamers with the added duty of being a blocking back about 5 plays a game. Maybe they should just give the duty to the backup TE.

How many times a year are we going to see a thread discussing the position of fullback? This is a rarity.

It's easier when one can visually see the difference in videos how resourceful a FB can be,.. in according to the coaches and the offense.

And while you're mentioning the battering ram old school types, don't forget how the Mad Genius with the funny hat, wanted
to implement a converted ex- Buckeye halfback into a Full back in Ron Springs.
;)
 

plasticman

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It's easier when one can visually see the difference in videos how resourceful a FB can be,.. in according to the coaches and the offense.

And while you're mentioning the battering ram old school types, don't forget how the Mad Genius with the funny hat, wanted
to implement a converted ex- Buckeye halfback into a Full back in Ron Springs.
;)
Landry did that often. Sometimes, in 1971, Duane Thomas would be the fullback when Landry wanted him and Calvin Hill in the same backfield. He even used Herschel Walker at fullback sometimes so he could pair him with Dorsett in the same backfield.

Ron Springs had some very successful seasons as a fullback sharing the backfield with Dorsett. In 1883 he had 1139 total yards, rushing for 541 yards with 71 receptions for 589 yards. In 1981, a year in which Dorsett ran for over 1600 yards, Springs added another 625 yards and ten rushing TD's.
 

DuncanIso

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ok , thanks for explaining the FB as the right personnel
Interesting about Marc Columbo issues, i'd heard that bout Fredrick's favortism but not going over MM's head to Jerry.

i only wish two things if we continue to be a more passing team:
1) Don't abandon the run- Kellen will do that, i am truly hoping McCarthy does not
2) Continue to push the ball downfield vertically. i love Kellen's route designs, pre-snap motion, huddle pace and how we push
the ball vertically but i continue to be confused how Kellen's rhythm time based offense will mixes/blend with McCarthy's
West Coast version.

It won’t be mixed.

KMoore is running the offense. Per Jerry.

Philbin was brought in to be the shadow OC for big Mike.
 

quickccc

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It won’t be mixed.

KMoore is running the offense. Per Jerry.

Philbin was brought in to be the shadow OC for big Mike.

Given that Jerry is having less and less on hand influence, ..and Stephen more and more.
i think it was up to Mike, not Jerry.

If Jerry was the case, then most if not all of the offensive asst coaches would still be here,
.and remember Doug Nussmeir who moved from TE to QB coach, is still a leftover mainstay too when
McCarthy could have easily replaced Doug with one of his own.

With no OTAs, or preseason and limited practice time, it's actually a good thing to have it going thru Moore than
a full fledged McCarthy right now with this Pandemic, as the offensive players still have such
great familiarity with Moore, and we can keep hitting the ground running.from the start.
 

75boyz

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Given that Jerry is having less and less on hand influence, ..and Stephen more and more.
i think it was up to Mike, not Jerry.

If Jerry was the case, then most if not all of the offensive asst coaches would still be here,
.and remember Doug Nussmeir who moved from TE to QB coach, is still a leftover mainstay too when
McCarthy could have easily replaced Doug with one of his own.

With no OTAs, or preseason and limited practice time, it's actually a good thing to have it going thru Moore than
a full fledged McCarthy right now with this Pandemic, as the offensive players still have such
great familiarity with Moore, and we can keep hitting the ground running.from the start.

Whereas you appear to use sound logic in your speculation of coach selection and reasoning I differ in opinion because of Jerry's past Garrett before Wade hiring fiasco.

As I said your opinions shared sound like they should be what's going on but my thought is still Moore is Jerry's next Garrett in Waiting part II.

I think McCarthy even had a period with the Pack where he gave up playcalling only to return as play caller either the same or following year. That's the part that never made sense to me and still doesn't. Like over 30 years calling plays, running a system and developing QBs. Call it familiarity or comfort in the existing offense or whatever you want to call it, but McCarthy acting as anything other than the full offensive influence does nothing more for me than to side with Duncanslo.
It's like McCarthy's not a full fledged puppet. But a partial one still in support of Jerry's Way and ultimately Jerry's handpicked guy.
Conspiracy theories right?

Everybody's got em. I believe Moore will be HC in 3 years.

Just another opinion although yours makes just as much sense if not more than mine.
 

cowboyec

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could be wrong but i think udfa Sewo Olonilua beats out Olawale for that spot.

im also interested to watch udfa Rico Dowdle...and wonder if he will get a look at FB...he will make a run at the 3rd RB spot...but so will Darius Anderson.
so maybe see if Dowdle can handle his business at FB.

but Olonilua is built like a tank...im kinda rootin' for him to get that spot.
 

DuncanIso

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Whereas you appear to use sound logic in your speculation of coach selection and reasoning I differ in opinion because of Jerry's past Garrett before Wade hiring fiasco.

As I said your opinions shared sound like they should be what's going on but my thought is still Moore is Jerry's next Garrett in Waiting part II.

I think McCarthy even had a period with the Pack where he gave up playcalling only to return as play caller either the same or following year. That's the part that never made sense to me and still doesn't. Like over 30 years calling plays, running a system and developing QBs. Call it familiarity or comfort in the existing offense or whatever you want to call it, but McCarthy acting as anything other than the full offensive influence does nothing more for me than to side with Duncanslo.
It's like McCarthy's not a full fledged puppet. But a partial one still in support of Jerry's Way and ultimately Jerry's handpicked guy.
Conspiracy theories right?

Everybody's got em. I believe Moore will be HC in 3 years.

Just another opinion although yours makes just as much sense if not more than mine.

agree.

jerry likes the kid.

mike can’t be happy about the play calling situation.

we need to watch the OL too.

how bad will Philbin mess things up?
 

75boyz

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agree.

jerry likes the kid.

mike can’t be happy about the play calling situation.

we need to watch the OL too.

how bad will Philbin mess things up?

Totally agree. Like I said, the whole retain Moore to keep the system familiar or whatever for Dak never convinced me. Oh well, could be wrong I guess and it wouldn't be the first time, lol.

I would have preferred OL continuity as well because the Alexander guy experiment was a huge fail. Hopefully Philbin can be a net positive.
 

quickccc

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Whereas you appear to use sound logic in your speculation of coach selection and reasoning I differ in opinion because of Jerry's past Garrett before Wade hiring fiasco.

As I said your opinions shared sound like they should be what's going on but my thought is still Moore is Jerry's next Garrett in Waiting part II.

I think McCarthy even had a period with the Pack where he gave up playcalling only to return as play caller either the same or following year. That's the part that never made sense to me and still doesn't. Like over 30 years calling plays, running a system and developing QBs. Call it familiarity or comfort in the existing offense or whatever you want to call it, but McCarthy acting as anything other than the full offensive influence does nothing more for me than to side with Duncanslo.


It's like McCarthy's not a full fledged puppet. But a partial one still in support of Jerry's Way and ultimately Jerry's handpicked guy.
Conspiracy theories right?

Everybody's got em. I believe Moore will be HC in 3 years.

Just another opinion although yours makes just as much sense if not more than mine.


Yeh yeh the Conspiracy theories

Moore will be the head coach for what NFL team in 3 years ?

So if Kellen Moore becomes hot commodity around the league and an NFL team is interested in hiring him away as their new HC ,
Jerry cannot block Moore from being an HC for another NFL team He could only do a Diiicck Vermeil/Mike Martz in forcing McCarthy
to " retire" or opt out of his contract and immediately hire Moore as the new HC. ..after just one year under MM.

As for Mccarthy, do we really know why and what reasons why MM gave up (delegated?) the play calling in GB ?
...and what reasons why he took it back over ?

Could whatever reasons that went down in GB with MM's play calling have to do with him maintaining Kellen as his OC, as
a continuation with dak and the No.1 yrd. offense in NFL ?
, .
.or is this where the " Jerry wanting Kellen staying to be eventual HC " come in here now ?
have a hand in why he chose Moore to be his OC?
 

HungryLion

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We should start a pool on picking which games Olawale’s one reception will be in this season.
 

75boyz

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Yeh yeh the Conspiracy theories

Moore will be the head coach for what NFL team in 3 years ?

So if Kellen Moore becomes hot commodity around the league and an NFL team is interested in hiring him away as their new HC ,
Jerry cannot block Moore from being an HC for another NFL team He could only do a Diiicck Vermeil/Mike Martz in forcing McCarthy
to " retire" or opt out of his contract and immediately hire Moore as the new HC. ..after just one year under MM.

As for Mccarthy, do we really know why and what reasons why MM gave up (delegated?) the play calling in GB ?
...and what reasons why he took it back over ?

Could whatever reasons that went down in GB with MM's play calling have to do with him maintaining Kellen as his OC, as
a continuation with dak and the No.1 yrd. offense in NFL ?
, .
.or is this where the " Jerry wanting Kellen staying to be eventual HC " come in here now ?
have a hand in why he chose Moore to be his OC?

Difference of opinion is all, we all got em. My answers to these questions you pose merely go back to Jerry's earlier way of picking his own guy(Garrett). That's all.
I am just opining that Moore's "coach in training" role has begun. No more no less.
Others, including maybe you, say that McCarthy was the one who probably chose Moore outright.

I am not privy to closed door rumblings that take place at the STAR anymore than you are but share my opinion based on how circumstances were before and how I could see them happening again.

All of how your opinion plays out may very well be the reality and I could be completely off base. I usually base my assumptions and opinions off patterns of behavior and performance that has happened before with people. Can people change? Yup, but I just dont trust Jerry Jones.

Go Cowboys
 
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