The Fumbles last night. Guys trying to do too much

[RonnieT24]

I think what we saw with both those turnovers were two guys fighting for extra yards, trying to do MORE to make up for how bad the defense is playing. If the defense was even pretending to be competitive I think both Ferguson and Williams take what they can get and get to the ground instead of continuing to fight .... It's a natural reaction when your team is losing to want to do more.. I hate that it happened to those guys.. but I get it.. I just hope they get talked to about in the meetings today. The guys need to play within themselves or bad things happen. As we have clearly seen..

 

[Bagman]

I agree. I think the same thing happened to Pickens. Thankfully, Javonte was a beast on that recovery.

 

[HungryLion]

I think what we saw with both those turnovers were two guys fighting for extra yards, trying to do MORE to make up for how bad the defense is playing. If the defense was even pretending to be competitive I think both Ferguson and Williams take what they can get and get to the ground instead of continuing to fight .... It's a natural reaction when your team is losing to want to do more.. I hate that it happened to those guys.. but I get it.. I just hope they get talked to about in the meetings today. The guys need to play within themselves or bad things happen. As we have clearly seen..

I thought Javonte got kinda screwed. Refs should have called forward progress on that. But it’s not reviewable.

 

[RonWashington]

Pickens taunting call was ridiculous . I’m sorry the refs are not the show it’s the players .

 

[Shane612]

Yeah. That’s what their problem is. They’re trying to do too much.

 

[Cmac]

I think what we saw with both those turnovers were two guys fighting for extra yards, trying to do MORE to make up for how bad the defense is playing. If the defense was even pretending to be competitive I think both Ferguson and Williams take what they can get and get to the ground instead of continuing to fight .... It's a natural reaction when your team is losing to want to do more.. I hate that it happened to those guys.. but I get it.. I just hope they get talked to about in the meetings today. The guys need to play within themselves or bad things happen. As we have clearly seen..

Have to agree a bit, Williams TO was definitely from extra effort & (slow whistle regarding forward progress), Ferguson slipped with ball protection. We need both guys, and they're both critical to what we can do on the positive side, so a conversation about ball protection and we move on.

 

[Cmac]

I thought Javonte got kinda screwed. Refs should have called forward progress on that. But it’s not reviewable.

Yep.....I definitely thought the ref whistle was absent regarding forward progress. And I thought the league was about protecting players too. The tush push fumble against the Giants had the quickest whistle heard this year. Ref inconsistency prevailed again.

 

[RonnieT24]

I thought Javonte got kinda screwed. Refs should have called forward progress on that. But it’s not reviewable.

Yeah I thought that right when the play happened. They had hold of him and had already pushed him back like 3 yards before the fumble. In years past that would have been ruled end of forward progress and play the next down.

 

[foofighters]

I think what we saw with both those turnovers were two guys fighting for extra yards, trying to do MORE to make up for how bad the defense is playing. If the defense was even pretending to be competitive I think both Ferguson and Williams take what they can get and get to the ground instead of continuing to fight .... It's a natural reaction when your team is losing to want to do more.. I hate that it happened to those guys.. but I get it.. I just hope they get talked to about in the meetings today. The guys need to play within themselves or bad things happen. As we have clearly seen..

No. There no such thing. You either do or you don't. Those fumbles are a symptom of the undisciplined nature that this team has had for many years. Doesn't matter who the QB is. Doesn't matter who the coaches are...this team is undisciplined from top to bottom.

 

[Cmac]

Yeah I thought that right when the play happened. They had hold of him and had already pushed him back like 3 yards before the fumble. In years past that would have been ruled end of forward progress and play the next down.

Player safety was completely tossed out the window on that play.

 

[blueblood70]

I think what we saw with both those turnovers were two guys fighting for extra yards, trying to do MORE to make up for how bad the defense is playing. If the defense was even pretending to be competitive I think both Ferguson and Williams take what they can get and get to the ground instead of continuing to fight .... It's a natural reaction when your team is losing to want to do more.. I hate that it happened to those guys.. but I get it.. I just hope they get talked to about in the meetings today. The guys need to play within themselves or bad things happen. As we have clearly seen..

 

[blueblood70]

Yeah I thought that right when the play happened. They had hold of him and had already pushed him back like 3 yards before the fumble. In years past that would have been ruled end of forward progress and play the next down.

I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but why does that happen with the Cowboys other teams say the same thing but play teams like the Chiefs and the Eagles look how fast that ridiculous whistle was on the tush push on that fumble by Jalen Hurts that was definitely a fumble they blew the whistle like fast really fast whistle but for the Cowboys they let him be pushed back 3 yards and don't blow the whistle And from what I'm reading and I missed it but on Williams fumble they said a guy stepped out of bounds and came back in to recover it therefore it should have never happened why are these things missed I don't get it we've been having bad bounces all year weird stuff happen you know like that tipped past that hit the camera and Clark couldn't get the interception Like it's just weird it's just weird been a weird year the Cowboys have weird things happen they don't get the same kind of calls I mean in the same game how could you miss not just a hold but a tackle that actually hurt Fowler on the play that would have been a punt that would have been a stop that literally was the biggest hold I've ever seen he kept holding until they both fell down and then he put all his weight on the guy all of that is illegal and yet it's not called they just let that go that's not kind of holding that's a full on tackle..


Then like two plays later into our series our guy gets called for holding for barely getting a small piece of the jersey for a split second and let go but that's holding all game on us but we can't get the same calls on the other side.

 

[RonnieT24]

I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but why does that happen with the Cowboys other teams say the same thing but play teams like the Chiefs and the Eagles look how fast that ridiculous whistle was on the tush push on that fumble by Jalen Hurts that was definitely a fumble they blew the whistle like fast really fast whistle but for the Cowboys they let him be pushed back 3 yards and don't blow the whistle And from what I'm reading and I missed it but on Williams fumble they said a guy stepped out of bounds and came back in to recover it therefore it should have never happened why are these things missed I don't get it we've been having bad bounces all year weird stuff happen you know like that tipped past that hit the camera and Clark couldn't get the interception Like it's just weird it's just weird been a weird year the Cowboys have weird things happen they don't get the same kind of calls I mean in the same game how could you miss not just a hold but a tackle that actually hurt Fowler on the play that would have been a punt that would have been a stop that literally was the biggest hold I've ever seen he kept holding until they both fell down and then he put all his weight on the guy all of that is illegal and yet it's not called they just let that go that's not kind of holding that's a full on tackle..


Then like two plays later into our series our guy gets called for holding for barely getting a small piece of the jersey for a split second and let go but that's holding all game on us but we can't get the same calls on the other side.

Yeah we rarely get the benefit of the doubt with the Zebras. I have talked about it ad nauseum. I think there are two distinct factors at play.. One is the obvious and blatant anti-Cowboys bias (even if it's not intentional I think it plays itself out) among the zebras.. and second is the 30 year fallout from Jerry winning the lawsuit battle against Goodell and the rest of the NFL lawyers in 1995. I don't think Goodell has ever forgiven Jerry for that and I think the office chatter around the NFL offices is decidedly anti-Cowboys and I think it permeates everything that happens around the league. That's why we get rules named after our players and we get calls against us that no one has ever heard of and we go MONTHS without an opponent being called for offensive holding. People can cry "coincidence" all day.. and they will be wrong.. all day.

 

[blueblood70]

No. There no such thing. You either do or you don't. Those fumbles are a symptom of the undisciplined nature that this team has had for many years. Doesn't matter who the QB is. Doesn't matter who the coaches are...this team is undisciplined from top to bottom.

Yes there is Some people call it hero ball as a negative when things are going well but when things are going bad it is called trying to do too much They literally were pushing for every yard they can get it goes for the quarterback as well that's not undisciplined you don't usually see Williams fumble now he's done it twice in critical situations this year because he's looking for that extra yard when you know your defense is probably giving up 30 you do go into that mode I'm not making excuses they shouldn't be fumbling i'm angry about it but there's a reason And by the way some of them balls were hit really hard..

And like people are saying the whistle on William should have been blown they allow him to be pushed back three yards but Jalen Hurts gets a quick whistle on a fumble Why they were still forward momentum going like what's the difference that should have never been a fumble that's why they blow the whistle 'cause you stand the guy up you can knock the ball out you can pick a guy up and push him back 70 yards That you usually blow the whistle before then.

I agree with Ronnie When you're in a position to where you think you have to score on every drive each player is thinking I need every yard like they think they can reach for that first that's what Ferguson was doing just fighting to get to that 1st down marker it is because of the losing it is because of the extra pressure....

Was making excuses for it just giving you reasons that a lot of times it doesn't happen often how about we go back to 2020 I think your Elliot was never a fumbler not before and not after 2020 but 2020 was falling apart I believe he fumble the ball 6 times or more he never done it again he only had one fumble the next year he's never had more than one fumble.. That year was a lot like this year everything's falling apart terrible defense guys try harder they shouldn't i'm a guy who is you get what you can and you fall down because in this day and age people are punching at the ball that once more people get to you they start grabbing that ball They're doing the peanut punch they're grabbing at it I mean Blues fumble the week before that's not on him you couldn't have hit the ball any harder with your helmet nobody could have held on to that football it was just perfect timing so it's not always undisciplined it's just circumstance.....

 

[blueblood70]

Yeah we rarely get the benefit of the doubt with the Zebras. I have talked about it ad nauseum. I think there are two distinct factors at play.. One is the obvious and blatant anti-Cowboys bias (even if it's not intentional I think it plays itself out) among the zebras.. and second is the 30 year fallout from Jerry winning the lawsuit battle against Goodell and the rest of the NFL lawyers in 1995. I don't think Goodell has ever forgiven Jerry for that and I think the office chatter around the NFL offices is decidedly anti-Cowboys and I think it permeates everything that happens around the league. That's why we get rules named after our players and we get calls against us that no one has ever heard of and we go MONTHS without an opponent being called for offensive holding. People can cry "coincidence" all day.. and they will be wrong.. all day.

I agree with you and your premise and your original post people don't see it but I do look at Ezekiel Elliott he was be called a fumbler in 2020 he never was a fumbler he usually either never fumble or had one unusual fumble per year I think he fumble the ball more than six times in 2020 and doesn't this feel like 2020?

Literally trying to do too much trying to get that first down that extra yard because you feel the pressure it happens with Prescott latent games that's when most of his interceptions have happened is when absolutely everything has gone wrong and he's just trying to make a play he's forcing the ball he doesn't force the ball early in games but the tighter the game gets when reality hits that you're probably gonna lose you start going outside of your normal standards...

 

[RonnieT24]

I agree with you and your premise and your original post people don't see it but I do look at Ezekiel Elliott he was be called a fumbler in 2020 he never was a fumbler he usually either never fumble or had one unusual fumble per year I think he fumble the ball more than six times in 2020 and doesn't this feel like 2020?

Literally trying to do too much trying to get that first down that extra yard because you feel the pressure it happens with Prescott latent games that's when most of his interceptions have happened is when absolutely everything has gone wrong and he's just trying to make a play he's forcing the ball he doesn't force the ball early in games but the tighter the game gets when reality hits that you're probably gonna lose you start going outside of your normal standards...

Yeah people calling dudes trying to do extra a negative simply don't get competitive team sports to me. When you are a part of the team you KNOW you have to do your part at minimum and when your brother is down (i.e. the defense) you know you have to do a little more. I think guys can tell when the team needs a spark and they try to do something extra to give it. Sometimes it results in a great play and sometimes it backfires.

But yeah spot on about Dak forcing riskier throws as the number of remaining possessions start to fall behind the score differential. We all know Dak is risk averse and is going to generally opt for the safer throw but late in games when the team needs to make a comeback /and/or score quickly he's going to be more aggressive. Because he has to. With the current state of the defense it's becoming apparent that we're going to need to play entire games in that mode. It goes against who Dak is.. but I don't see any way around it.. But I am welcome to be corrected if Williams, Wilson and Overshown completely transform this defense. Which they just might. If they can just make it "bad" instead of "god awful" we'll be in good shape. The offensive guys can stop pressing and let the game come to them.

 

[Mikexike]

I think what we saw with both those turnovers were two guys fighting for extra yards, trying to do MORE to make up for how bad the defense is playing. If the defense was even pretending to be competitive I think both Ferguson and Williams take what they can get and get to the ground instead of continuing to fight .... It's a natural reaction when your team is losing to want to do more.. I hate that it happened to those guys.. but I get it.. I just hope they get talked to about in the meetings today. The guys need to play within themselves or bad things happen. As we have clearly seen..

100%, this offense is pressing right now and its not good. Every play matters on offense and that pressure amounts to a lot of bad things when they watch the other team march up and down the field for 3 or 7.

 

[RonnieT24]

100%, this offense is pressing right now and its not good. Every play matters on offense and that pressure amounts to a lot of bad things when they watch the other team march up and down the field for 3 or 7.

Yeah I think the pressure of having to score 40 every game is getting to the offensive guys. It's not like they're getting in the faces of the defense and giving them the business but you can see that our guys are playing outside themselves and the results have been disastrous. Even Dak, who is usually cool as a cucumber is showing signs that the pressure of having to be perfect is getting to him. I know people will chime in with the usual "$60 million dollar" yadda yadda yadda but no amount of money will stop a person from being a human being and no human being can thrive when they are expected to be perfect when so many others around him are crapping their pants. Guys fumbling, dropping balls, line getting beat like a drum, defense not even showing up.. I think it's too much for ANYBODY not just Dak. But that anti-Dak crowd will tell us that some other QB would be undefeated with this mess around him.

 

[OGSixshooter]

I think what we saw with both those turnovers were two guys fighting for extra yards, trying to do MORE to make up for how bad the defense is playing. If the defense was even pretending to be competitive I think both Ferguson and Williams take what they can get and get to the ground instead of continuing to fight .... It's a natural reaction when your team is losing to want to do more.. I hate that it happened to those guys.. but I get it.. I just hope they get talked to about in the meetings today. The guys need to play within themselves or bad things happen. As we have clearly seen..

You only do "too much" when you suck. We suck.

 

[foofighters]

Yeah people calling dudes trying to do extra a negative simply don't get competitive team sports to me. When you are a part of the team you KNOW you have to do your part at minimum and when your brother is down (i.e. the defense) you know you have to do a little more. I think guys can tell when the team needs a spark and they try to do something extra to give it. Sometimes it results in a great play and sometimes it backfires.

But yeah spot on about Dak forcing riskier throws as the number of remaining possessions start to fall behind the score differential. We all know Dak is risk averse and is going to generally opt for the safer throw but late in games when the team needs to make a comeback /and/or score quickly he's going to be more aggressive. Because he has to. With the current state of the defense it's becoming apparent that we're going to need to play entire games in that mode. It goes against who Dak is.. but I don't see any way around it.. But I am welcome to be corrected if Williams, Wilson and Overshown completely transform this defense. Which they just might. If they can just make it "bad" instead of "god awful" we'll be in good shape. The offensive guys can stop pressing and let the game come to them.

"Don't get competitive sports?" Nah, bro. It doesn't work that way. If you are truly a competitor, there isn't different speeds. You go 110% every single time. No matter the score or anything else. I could never turn it off. Once I was out there, if you wanted me to "slow down" you were going to have to pull me out.

"Guys trying too hard" is just another way of being careless. It's what we used to talk about with "be quick but don't hurry."