The infatuation with DBs

[Stash]

You are so ungrateful, we got Martin who as a rookie shocked the league and was all pro, not even his biggest supporters had an inkling he would be this dominant. And truth be told he was our third choice at that pick.

Ungrateful? What?

We're talking about cornerbacks here in case you missed it?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

i look at many boards and read many posts from Cowboys boards and others. No other board has as many posters that wants DAbs drafted in the first year after year. Sanders was worth a top ten pick, but there are not any Sanders in this draft. There never will be. Drafting DBs in the first has not panned out well at all for the Cowboys. TNew, Jenkins, Mo, etc. have not produced to the level expected . Jones looks decent if he can find a position . What makes posters want Ramsey after this history and the fact that he is not even the top CB in the draft. Jones is the same player. Why draft another one. His lack of interceptions is even more of a head scratcher. DBs do not have the impact on teams that many here think. The Deion's are very rare. He was a difference maker and a playmaker. I knew Mo wasn't and I was blasted here and everybody should see that Ramsey is not. I find it odd that this board is the only board that pushes for DB picks so often in the first. I don't understand the infatuation when the positions are not high impact positions.

It's a bigger mistake to let past failures influence your selection. While we have had some bad luck (or done a bad job scouting) with CBs, there have been teams who have picked CBs high and have been okay with that selection. Patrick Peterson immediately comes to mind, as well as Joe Haden for recent examples (only 5 CBs have gone top 10 since 2010) and I think both teams are happy with those picks. We failed with the Claiborne pick because, one, we never interviewed him and very well could have inferred that he was not a fierce competitor and two, because we ignored all of the physical test that pointed to him not being a top CB. Jenkins failed, like Claiborne, because he just wasn't a competitor. We saw in 2009 he had all the physical tools to be a top CB, so the scouts did their job to some extent, but in his 2008 and 2010, we saw questionable effort and an unwillingness to tackle and that was why he failed, not talent. And I guess that we'll just disagree that Terrence Newman did not pan out. If you want to make the argument that Suggs would have been a better pick, sure, not much of an argument against it, but the vast majority of the first round selected after Terrence Newman were absolute busts and he was a very good player for us the majority of his time here.

In essence what I'm saying is, each prospect should be viewed based off their own merits. And while I don't view Ramsey as a guy I take at #4, it has nothing to do with Mo Claiborne or Mike Jenkins.

 

[jnday]

It's boggling to me that people can watch as much football as some of you guys do and come away with the notion that DBs aren't game changers or worth high picks.

Though it probably shouldn't boggle, in a thread where 13 year veterans with multiple probowls under their belts are considered busted picks. But for the record, all y'all are crazy.

We are not crazy. We just realize that a pass rush is what makes most DBs . Without it, you have a bunch of Brsndon Carr type of players that has little impact on the game. Compare the resources spent on DBs to the resources spent on the Dline. Drafting DBs in the first has produced how many top rated defense's for the Cowboys? If the Dline had as many resources spent as the DBs have had, they would have a pass rush. The lack of a solid pass rush has been an ongoing problem for years, but is drafting DBs improving it any ? How many times does the same mistake need repeating?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

It's my opinion. I would not use a top ten pick on any of them other than Sanders. Don't you think more of those players you listed should be HOF type players? I expect a top ten pick to produce like Aikman or Irvin or at least they should be cornerstone type players.

Well your expectations for a top 10 pick are not realistic. If it were normal for top 10 picks to produce like Aikman and Irvin, then Aikman and Irvin would not be considered special players

 

[Macnalty]

Ungrateful? What?

We're talking about cornerbacks here in case you missed it?

Stash sorry about that I had the thread open(got busy) read someone else's take on our draft and then came back and responded. Thanks for being graceful about this non sequitur. I so agree about us needing to hit on some of the late round players and I must still pay homage to the job Valley Ranch is doing with most of the top picks(Not Claiborne).

 

[jnday]

Well your expectations for a top 10 pick are not realistic. If it were normal for top 10 picks to produce like Aikman and Irvin, then Aikman and Irvin would not be considered special players

You don't expect a 4th pick to be special? I do. I don't see a special player at 4 this year , so I had just as well see a trade down instead of a mistake.

 

[Stash]

Stash sorry about that I had the thread open(got busy) read someone else's take on our draft and then came back and responded. Thanks for being graceful about this non sequitur. I so agree about us needing to hit on some of the late round players and I must still pay homage to the job Valley Ranch is doing with most of the top picks(Not Claiborne).

No problemo!

 

[jnday]

Stash sorry about that I had the thread open(got busy) read someone else's take on our draft and then came back and responded. Thanks for being graceful about this non sequitur. I so agree about us needing to hit on some of the late round players and I must still pay homage to the job Valley Ranch is doing with most of the top picks(Not Claiborne).

Really, the drafting has been bad after the first round. Our second round picks don't have a great success rate at all . It is time to fire some scouts or Jerry needs to follow Kiper's board or some other draft guide and save the money on scout's salary.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

You don't expect a 4th pick to be special? I do.

Well, history would say you have just as good of a chance at landing a bust as you do a HOF...may even skew a bit towards busts. I clearly want them to be special, but just based on the odds, no I do not expect it.

I don't see a special player at 4 this year , so I had just as well see a trade down instead of a mistake.

Well we agree here

 

[Idgit]

We are not crazy. We just realize that a pass rush is what makes most DBs . Without it, you have a bunch of Brsndon Carr type of players that has little impact on the game. Compare the resources spent on DBs to the resources spent on the Dline. Drafting DBs in the first has produced how many top rated defense's for the Cowboys? If the Dline had as many resources spent as the DBs have had, they would have a pass rush. The lack of a solid pass rush has been an ongoing problem for years, but is drafting DBs improving it any ? How many times does the same mistake need repeating?

There are, what, 5 basic starting DB positions. We've spent 1s on Newman, Williams, Jenkins, Claiborne, and Jones in "recent" seasons (Williams was 2002, and Newman 2003), and we're looking at Ramsey this year, reportedly. That's a 13 year starter with multiple probowls, an 8 year NFL starter, one disappointing player who's still played significant snaps for us for 5 years, and a 5 time probowler/1 time all pro in that group we're supposedly dissatisfied with.

Compare that to the front, where you've got 7 positions and we've drafted Ware, Spencer, Carpenter and Spears during a similar stretch and explain in that context how many top rated defenses that gave us.

The fact is, we've probably done better overall taking DBs in the first than we have with the DLs during that same term.

To build a defense, you need good players across the board, you need depth, and you need playmakers either at the rush positions to pressure QBs into making mistakes, or on the back end to take the ball away via big plays. Or you need to be able to just not let the other guys score by bending but not breaking like we did when Zimmer was here under Parcels. You need both halves of the defense to make it work. How is that not obvious? Drew Brees and Tom Brady get the ball out too fast for you to stop them with a pass rush alone. How many times have we seen it? And not just with the Cowboys, with other teams. That's the reason why the damn pick plays work for them: you can't get the QB before the ball is out and they're running through your secondary. Or they get the ball out underneath or to a back or on a screen and move the chains that way. Good QBs eat you alive wherever you're exposed in this league. They read defenses too well. That's the whole reason there's so much emphasis placed on the QB position in the first place. If you could counter it with pass rushers, then you'd see the Spence's of the world on draft boards where the Ramsey's of the world are hanging out now. It's not like the rest of the league doesn't get it but a dozen guys on CowboysZone have cracked the mysterious code that's eluded the rest of the world all this time.

 

[Macnalty]

Really, the drafting has been bad after the first round. Our second round picks don't have a great success rate at all . It is time to fire some scouts or Jerry needs to follow Kiper's board or some other draft guide and save the money on scout's salary.

Really around the league we are doing better than most, not a glowing accolade but truth. There is real room for improvement and the biggest leap would involve a new GM whose job is on the line. We are always going to be compromised with the current setup and no accountability.