The McVay-Riley Dynamic

[camelboy]

I'd try to get Riley next year as a OC with the commitment to hadn him the HC job within 3 year. If I am Riley I'd take it just to (1) learn the ropes of an NFL team culture (2) give myself a couple of year to draft/sign few pieces for my system - esp QB

Jerry, if you gonna stick around for the foreseeable future, can you do the one thing you are good at? Make Riley a deal and get him here

 

[Bobhaze]

This is a fair analysis of Kingsbury but I think he’s a better HC than his record indicates.

It’s always been tough recruiting in Lubbock. Reminds me of Gundy at OK ST trying to out recruit Sooners.

But with these type of great offensive minds and passing arsenals they attract talented QB’s. And they do a great job developing them.

It’s always comes down to the talent. And these better schemes rise to the top when they have the talent.

Just like with Briles at Baylor. His amazing schemes uplifted Baylor with a handful of talent with RGIII but that success allowed him to out recruit others in the state ultimately providing him more talent which led to back to back championships and national contention.

A great coach can uplift like we saw Bill do in 2003 with a 5-11 team but without more talent when going up against greater talent will most often lose out.

Riley has done a good job with more talent than the rest of the conference so far. I suspect with less talent on a NFL team we’ll see less success.

And since he inherited this talent with Stoops we don’t know if he’s a good recruiter or team builder yet. I’d think he’d rather go to a situation with a more talented QB like in Clev, AZ or NYJ.

It’s interesting how poorly high school talent is assessed. As I mentioned, I’m a big Texas Tech fan, and I’m always amazed at how overrated the high school recruiting ratings are. The best players in recent years for Tech were not that highly rated.

Examples- Michael Crabtree was a 2 star recruit. Wes Welker was not even offered a Div I scholarship except at Tech. Danny Amendola was a 2 star recruit. Patrick Mahomes was a 3 star and was not even rated as a top 5 QB in Texas coming out of high school. Davis Webb was a 3 star. All of these players were overlooked by recruiting services and many of the guys rated ahead of them never played a day in the NFL.

 

[Falco78]

7-9 or better and Garrett is safe
Linehan and marinelli take the fall
Rinse and repeat

Unfortunately you are correct

 

[Whyjerry]

I like Shaw but he's not the offensive innovator this team and Dak desperately needs.

Shaw had Andrew Luck. He was is a generational talent. Other than him his QB's have been underwhelming. And I'm being kind.

Is Riley a risk? Sure. But I'm ready to take it today.

Shaw has consistently won with the challenge of recruiting given Stanford’s ridiculously high academic standards. His teams play pro style and are always physically tough. Zeke is going into his 4th year. OL is not getting younger. They cannot take a big risk.

 

[Verdict]

The college $ will always be there. Even if he only lasted say, 3 years in Dallas and failed mightily, he would still be able to go back to college and make the same if not more than he does now.

He has one of the best college jobs already. There is no guarantee he could find that if he came back. The only reason for him to go to the NFL would be ego.

 

[G2]

A smarter GM will grab such a potentially talented coach.

 

[blueblood70]

A smarter GM will grab such a potentially talented coach.

GRAB really Like Riley doesnt have his own choices? there are going to be like 8 HC positions open after the season and Cleveland might be the hot spot to go given the pieces they have ready to go and more high draft picks coming..sometimes its not just how much money and years all teams can offer stupid money, a smart new bright HC will choose the best situation for him and his family, it may not be here.. there are other coaches they can go after , they as smart FO will have 3 names in mind and college and especially the big 12 is full of these guys..odd Tua is also being drooled over when there site Murray having as good or better season..Murray, Herbert, Tua all most likely coming into 2020 draft plus others..goig to be an interesting next 2 seasons

 

[G2]

GRAB really Like Riley doesnt have his own choices? there are going to be like 8 HC positions open after the season and Cleveland might be the hot spot to go given the pieces they have ready to go and more high draft picks coming..sometimes its not just how much money and years all teams can offer stupid money, a smart new bright HC will choose the best situation for him and his family, it may not be here.. there are other coaches they can go after , they as smart FO will have 3 names in mind and college and especially the big 12 is full of these guys..odd Tua is also being drooled over when there site Murray having as good or better season..Murray, Herbert, Tua all most likely coming into 2020 draft plus others..goig to be an interesting next 2 seasons

My point was that Jones will most likely go with a coach he can coach.

 

[Diehardblues]

It’s interesting how poorly high school talent is assessed. As I mentioned, I’m a big Texas Tech fan, and I’m always amazed at how overrated the high school recruiting ratings are. The best players in recent years for Tech were not that highly rated.

Examples- Michael Crabtree was a 2 star recruit. Wes Welker was not even offered a Div I scholarship except at Tech. Danny Amendola was a 2 star recruit. Patrick Mahomes was a 3 star and was not even rated as a top 5 QB in Texas coming out of high school. Davis Webb was a 3 star. All of these players were overlooked by recruiting services and many of the guys rated ahead of them never played a day in the NFL.

Right.. good stuff Bob and all good examples how Kingsbury offense highlite their talent. But they had some talent. Which probably wouldn’t have been optimized as much with other schools and their offense.

I follow high school football pretty closely also. Dave Campbell Texas Football magazine top 100 was always a good tool. I’ve always followed him since he was a neighbor of my parents in their later years. Dad was always a fan of his because of the Baylor connection and he was Sports Editor for Waco Tribune Herald. I met him a few years ago with Briles in their book signings at Baylor bookstore. Still sharp at 90 years old. Got his autograph also. And he remembered our family.

But yea, too often these high school kids are over rated based on the success of their school. Continued high school success has always impressed me and where some of the best coaching minds and schemes are as they don’t have a draft or recruiting mechanism. And yet they maintain a level of excellence while they can’t always control the level of talent they receive.

 

[Diehardblues]

My point was that Jones will most likely go with a coach he can coach.

Right.. Riley might be too high profile for Jerry’s ways and agenda.

But I do think if interested Jerry would be more willing to bring Riley on as OC rather than HC.

Jerry seems more willing to bring in proven experienced OC and DC than HC.

 

[Diehardblues]

He has one of the best college jobs already. There is no guarantee he could find that if he came back. The only reason for him to go to the NFL would be ego.

And pressure from OU.

If Sooners stumble against West Virginia there could be some rumblings in Norman that the program has slipped.

If Sooners lose at WV and Texas wins out Sooners would miss Big 12 champ game. Which is more likely than some might realize.

Now if WV loses and Iowa St beats Texas then Iowa St will be in Champ game vs OU.

There’s still much to be decided which could influence Riley’s decision. I think if Riley wins out and gets into playoffs again which they’ll need some help with Michigan losing , Sooners ain’t letting him go and will offer him a huge extension. But if not .. like I said above Riley could bolt while his stock is high and boosters are unhappy with disappointing finish.

 

[G2]

Right.. Riley might be too high profile for Jerry’s ways and agenda.

But I do think if interested Jerry would be more willing to bring Riley on as OC rather than HC.

Jerry seems more willing to bring in proven experienced OC and DC than HC.

You know I've tried to be as realistic about the Jones hatred. I don't hate him or even dislike him. I just have gotten to the point where his way isn't coming around regardless of who the coach is. He's a brilliant owner, but I've sort of adopted the idea that he wants to win his way. And that's his fault. For not finding or promoting a legit GM.
that all being said, he is the owner so a small part still thinks he can do whatever he wants. But all it's done is made a par organization.

 

[DFWJC]

I don't think Riley's QB's are anything special, his offense just puts them in a position to succeed. Same with Kingsbury, they are great QB coaches who have dynamic offensive minds. I would love to see what Riley could do with Dak. If it doesn't work out, maybe Rush or White could catch on or get a new QB in the draft.

You don't think Mayfield is anything special?

 

[blueblood70]

My point was that Jones will most likely go with a coach he can coach.

I do not think that will happen this time..I feel Jerry thought Jason was his savings grace or reversing an error letting Sean Payton go and hiring wade etc ..He really felt he had an up and coming young talent, remember Jason was offered other jobs and when he was up for an extension he had to big offers to go as hc other places..He wasn't alone...well it wasn't a total failure, it just hit a wall and Jason is not the guy to get us to the next level..hopefully Jerry gets rid of him and hires THE best Talent he can lure here..

Like I said go to the Big 12 and around the big college programs there are right young OC/HC talent not just in OK.. this RPO based Spread Air raid type offenses run in KC etc if they want one of those they are out there, this offense worked with Aikman and Romo because those were Pocket Arm Talent and Romo ran it beyond its scheme..this doesnt fit Dak and hopefully they see this and does not bring in an old dated coach.. Now Norv seems to be the exception given how hes been utilizing Cam but I still rather have young gun ready and hungry to prove himself..

 

[G2]

I do not think that will happen this time..I feel Jerry thought Jason was his savings grace or reversing an error letting Sean Payton go and hiring wade etc ..He really felt he had an up and coming young talent, remember Jason was offered other jobs and when he was up for an extension he had to big offers to go as hc other places..He wasn't alone...well it wasn't a total failure, it just hit a wall and Jason is not the guy to get us to the next level..hopefully Jerry gets rid of him and hires THE best Talent he can lure here..

Like I said go to the Big 12 and around the big college programs there are right young OC/HC talent not just in OK.. this RPO based Spread Air raid type offenses run in KC etc if they want one of those they are out there, this offense worked with Aikman and Romo because those were Pocket Arm Talent and Romo ran it beyond its scheme..this doesnt fit Dak and hopefully they see this and does not bring in an old dated coach.. Now Norv seems to be the exception given how hes been utilizing Cam but I still rather have young gun ready and hungry to prove himself..

Parcells was still head coach when Payton was offered a HC job. So unless Jones fired Parcells, Payton coaching here wasn't an option.
Other than that, I agree.

 

[blueblood70]

Parcells was still head coach when Payton was offered a HC job. So unless Jones fired Parcells, Payton coaching here wasn't an option.
Other than that, I agree.

my bad had the timing off I guess what happened in Payton walked the next year Parcells walked, correct? Jerry should have known parcells was going to leave and held onto Payton and moved Bill to GM now that would have been something....

 

[CouchCoach]

Parcells was still head coach when Payton was offered a HC job. So unless Jones fired Parcells, Payton coaching here wasn't an option.
Other than that, I agree.

Let's not forget, Payton was demoted in NY and Fassell took over the play calling so how high was Payton's stock with anyone? And after all the accolades, the guy still has one ring.

 

[G2]

my bad had the timing off I guess what happened in Payton walked the next year Parcells walked, correct? Jerry should have known parcells was going to leave and held onto Payton and moved Bill to GM now that would have been something....

To be fair, it wasn't all on Jones. He put up with a lot of extra BS, but that's what you get from being the owner/GM.
Who knows, we may have an shot at Payton.

 

[Verdict]

my bad had the timing off I guess what happened in Payton walked the next year Parcells walked, correct? Jerry should have known parcells was going to leave and held onto Payton and moved Bill to GM now that would have been something....

I think Parcells time had passed. Not that he didn't have ANYTHING to add, but he was too old school and stubborn in his ways. You really want a guy who insisted we draft Bobby Carpenter and Spears over Ware? He's not really a personnel guy.

 

[Verdict]

I'd try to get Riley next year as a OC with the commitment to hadn him the HC job within 3 year. If I am Riley I'd take it just to (1) learn the ropes of an NFL team culture (2) give myself a couple of year to draft/sign few pieces for my system - esp QB

Jerry, if you gonna stick around for the foreseeable future, can you do the one thing you are good at? Make Riley a deal and get him here

You are pipe dreaming.