The Miami vs. Dallas Comparison

khiladi

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wileedog;2544512 said:
Anectodal records in December are not a "culture."

There is very little that remains in this organization of what Parcells built into it. Most of it left for Miami with him.

That is hogwash. This team has been measured by how it performs in December. The reason for this is because it had taken on a team that collapses when the stakes are high. That collapse began with Parcells. Wade is living with something that he never created in the first place...
 

Maikeru-sama

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jday;2544520 said:
Look, I didn't call you an idiot, per se. I merely explained that should you make that comparison, looking like an idiot would be the ultimate result.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the argument of comparing Miami to Dallas is irrational or a fallacy, if you prefer. They don't compare, therefore, you shouldn't use it as ammunition against Jerry Jones, for the lack of Parcells, for the inadequacies of Wade or J.G. or the team ethic of the Dallas Cowboys as a whole. Furthermore, I said, I'm not impressed by what Miami accomplished. Nor am I impressed by the Cardinals for far more obvious reasons. And to be honest, considering the schedule the Cowboys will draw for being 3rd place in the NFCE, I have already began to temper my enthusiasm for next year. For the exception of our interdivisional foes, are schedule will most likely be pretty cake as a result.

Just the same, I'm sorry for being insulting. I've just seen too many comments from people trying to make that comparison, when there really, as I've stated repeatedly already, is none. That teamed with overall dissappointment in how this season ended can lead to some pretty heated responses, as far as I'm concerned.

But this is what I don't understand.

Where on this board did I compare the Dolphins to the Cowboys and where did I use it as ammunition against Jerry Jones?

The Cowboys playing with no heart whatsoever and the Dolphins having a good season are two mutually exclusive events, they have nothing to do with each other.

I simply stated that the Dolphins had a good season after being 1-15 last year and any attempt to discredit their season is nothing but sour grapes.

That has nothing to do with Jerry Jones, Wade Phillips or the Cowboys.
 

khiladi

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If the Cowboys team played in that conference, they would have easily been 13-3. They blew out horrible teams when they weren't clicking on all cylinders.
 

Maikeru-sama

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khiladi;2544547 said:
If the Cowboys team played in that conference, they would have easily been 13-3. They blew out horrible teams when they weren't clicking on all cylinders.

Gawd Bill Parcells was right when he said we overrate this team.
 

jday

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Your right! I shouldn't have gone there...but at the same time, if you read closely what I said, my argument really wasn't ultimately about how good or bad Miami did this year. My point ultimately was about not comparing them to the Cowboys. Personally, I don't feel they compare.
 

tyke1doe

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khiladi;2544538 said:
That is hogwash. This team has been measured by how it performs in December. The reason for this is because it had taken on a team that collapses when the stakes are high. That collapse began with Parcells. Wade is living with something that he never created in the first place...

Actually, the collapse began before Parcells. Parcells attempted to change that culture by bringing in his type players and by rebuilding the roster with talent.

He left before he could see it ultimately flourish. The reason Wade gets the blame is because he has a roster of "the most talented players" in the NFL and hasn't been able to get over the hump.

To me, personally, talk about having a losing season in December is meaningless if you have a roster full of no-talent bums. But if you have a talented roster, then it becomes more an indictment on coaching because your "talented" team should be able to win more of those December games than lose them.

Just my two cents. :)
 

Maikeru-sama

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jday;2544563 said:
Your right! I shouldn't have gone there...but at the same time, if you read closely what I said, my argument really wasn't ultimately about how good or bad Miami did this year. My point ultimately was about not comparing them to the Cowboys. Personally, I don't feel they compare.

Agreed
 

Chocolate Lab

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Maikeru-sama;2544541 said:
But this is what I don't understand.

Where on this board did I compare the Dolphins to the Cowboys and where did I use it as ammunition against Jerry Jones?

The Cowboys playing with no heart whatsoever and the Dolphins having a good season are two mutually exclusive events, they have nothing to do with each other.

I simply stated that the Dolphins had a good season after being 1-15 last year and any attempt to discredit their season is nothing but sour grapes.

That has nothing to do with Jerry Jones, Wade Phillips or the Cowboys.

LOL. You're quite the pot-stirrer lately, Mike. :)
 

jday

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Originally Posted by Maikeru-sama
But this is what I don't understand.

Where on this board did I compare the Dolphins to the Cowboys and where did I use it as ammunition against Jerry Jones?

The Cowboys playing with no heart whatsoever and the Dolphins having a good season are two mutually exclusive events, they have nothing to do with each other.

I simply stated that the Dolphins had a good season after being 1-15 last year and any attempt to discredit their season is nothing but sour grapes.

That has nothing to do with Jerry Jones, Wade Phillips or the Cowboys.



If you didn't make the comparison, then this thread was not started as a result of something you said. In an earlier thread, someone did make that argument, thus I wrote this thread. Then you came in seemingly arguing against my point, therefore, I rejoindered, and back and forth we went. Personally, it's the most fun on this site I've had all week.
 

wileedog

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khiladi;2544538 said:
That is hogwash. This team has been measured by how it performs in December. The reason for this is because it had taken on a team that collapses when the stakes are high. That collapse began with Parcells. Wade is living with something that he never created in the first place...

Couldn't disagree more. Wade created the permissive, do whatever you want, non-accountable, worry about yourselves not the team atmosphere that has lead to the locker room disruptions and complete end of the year breakdown. This team couldn't beat a pee wee team right now, because they don't give a damn about anything but getting their paychecks.

That's not what Parcells left Wade, that's what Wade created.

There may be a myriad of reasons that Parcells teams swooned in December, but WADE is why THIS team did.
 

jday

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Maikeru-sama;2544571 said:
It's a slow day at work ;) .
You too? Yeah, I finished my work before 11 A.M. and I have to be here until 5 P.M. I'm not looking forward to the next 8 months...

Any ideas where to go online when all the football discussion dies (SFW please!)?
 

cowboys2233

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tyke1doe;2544567 said:
Actually, the collapse began before Parcells. Parcells attempted to change that culture by bringing in his type players and by rebuilding the roster with talent.

The collapse began before Parcells? No, the collapse was at its worst right before Parcells, we had hit rockbottom -- those were the most godawful teams to ever don a Cowboys uniform. And Parcells saved us, he set us on the right path!!

But take heart -- with the expensive contracts JJ has doled out to a bunch of undeserving players and some incomprehensible commitment to a HC that let's the inmates run the asylum, we'll be back there soon enough!
 

jday

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cowboys2233;2544586 said:
The collapse began before Parcells? No, the collapse was at its worst right before Parcells, we had hit rockbottom -- those were the most godawful teams to ever don a Cowboys uniform. And Parcells saved us, he set us on the right path!!

But take heart -- with the expensive contracts JJ has doled out to a bunch of undeserving players and some incomprehensible commitment to a HC that let's the inmates run the asylum, we'll be back there soon enough!
I care not to speculate on this. My hope is in the high integrity guys like Ratliff, Romo, Witten, Barber, Ware, Felix Jones, Choice, etc. We have plenty of those, too. And if the Ying/Yang philosophy can be applied to football, maybe you need a little of every kind of player. I mean, honestly, in the history of the Superbowl, you can't say every person on those teams where great people on a personal level and great team players. There have been plenty of teams who won the Superbowl simply because they came to the game with the best plan. Football is not a popularity contest, not a talent show, and not a beauty pagent. Football is the chess of sports. There is no sure way to predict the outcome.

I agree that change is needed in the organization from the top to the bottom. Jerry Jones needs to keep his mouth shut and let his coach run the team. Wade doesn't have to change is personality to make the players accountable. Stiff fines in retaliation to behavior, penalties committed, mistakes made, late arrivals to meetings and practice, showing up next year to training camp out of shape, should do the trick as far as accountability is concerned. In essence, Wade doesn't have to be an *******, is rules have to be. The only difficult thing I see for Wade is enforcing said rules. That remains to be seen. The team - well, a few people need to be traded or cut.

But you might be suprised to read that I don't think T.O. is among those players. I think, were not for the media's constant limelight, T.O. could be the Michael Irvin of the latter day Cowboys. T.O., as we all know, will get into a players *** if they aren't doing their job. If it were Irvin doing it, no one would say a thing. But since it's T.O. they have to make a huge deal about him being a cancer again. And it is sad really, because an unchained T.O. is probably what this team really needs.

Players who should be cut, benched or traded (depending on the impact said action would have on the Cap): Bobby Carpenter, Flozell Adams, Roy Williams (SS), Patrick Crayton, Greg Ellis, and Anthony Henry.

That's right, I'm still in Pacman's corner, because at the end of the day, he's cheap talent with huge upside should he ever return to his Titan self. In 2006, according to many analyst, he was a top 5 CB. I felt his suspension was overblown and ill-timed. At the end of the day, he cost us nothing because we got the draft pick we traded for him back as a result of the suspension.

Lastly, I would like to see JJ trade up in the draft - possibly using a combination of the aforementioned players and later round draft picks - to snag LSU's FS Curtis Taylor. A QB/WR in highschool, he is both strong against the Pass and Run, with a frame that could stand more weight to make him a ferocious hitter, as a possible replacement for please-don't-throw-it-my-way Roy.

Obviously, a QB, depth in our LB core in in the OL will need to be addressed, as well, but Safety is what I would place as a top priority.

Please feel free to debate, on analyzing college talent I am by no means an expert...
 

Maikeru-sama

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jday;2544583 said:
You too? Yeah, I finished my work before 11 A.M. and I have to be here until 5 P.M. I'm not looking forward to the next 8 months...

Any ideas where to go online when all the football discussion dies (SFW please!)?

Well, we have the Political Zone here.

Since Football is the only sport I watch, I will have to find somewhere else to past the time too.
 

Dave_in-NC

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bootsy;2544367 said:
All this Dolphins, Falcons and to a lesser extent the Ravens talk will be gone away next year. Those teams caught the league by surprise this season and it will not happen next year. I look at Mangini with the Jets, Crennel with the Browns, and all of these one year wonders that come back the next year and do absolutely nothing and then are out of job in 2 years. I want to see how these 3 teams handle success and being on top instead of sneaking up on the league. I bet these teams are not playoff teams next year.

A ten game winning streak caught people by surprise? those be some dumb people.
 

bootsy

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Dave_in-NC;2544764 said:
A ten game winning streak caught people by surprise? those be some dumb people.
A ten game winning streak by who?:rolleyes:

Anyway my point if you read carefully(which from your post says you didn't) is about what happens to these teams next year and how they respond to be the favorites or playoff contenders instead of bad teams with first year coaches that other teams may take lightly.
 

Dave_in-NC

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bootsy;2544883 said:
A ten game winning streak by who?:rolleyes:

Anyway my point if you read carefully(which from your post says you didn't) is about what happens to these teams next year and how they respond to be the favorites or playoff contenders instead of bad teams with first year coaches that other teams may take lightly.

Yup I missed the 2nd NE game. One loss in their last ten. Granted not the toughest opponents in the NFL but we lost to some weak ones ourselves.

I still think that was one helluva job by the coaching staff. They got a bunch of no ones to buy into a system and they won. I bet they carry that into next year as well, seems like a team with good chemistry, Parcells is in a good position to help them. Sparano was definitely missed here, so it would seem.

They deserve some credit.
 

Dave_in-NC

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jday;2544640 said:
I care not to speculate on this. My hope is in the high integrity guys like Ratliff, Romo, Witten, Barber, Ware, Felix Jones, Choice, etc. We have plenty of those, too. And if the Ying/Yang philosophy can be applied to football, maybe you need a little of every kind of player. I mean, honestly, in the history of the Superbowl, you can't say every person on those teams where great people on a personal level and great team players. There have been plenty of teams who won the Superbowl simply because they came to the game with the best plan. Football is not a popularity contest, not a talent show, and not a beauty pagent. Football is the chess of sports. There is no sure way to predict the outcome.

I agree that change is needed in the organization from the top to the bottom. Jerry Jones needs to keep his mouth shut and let his coach run the team. Wade doesn't have to change is personality to make the players accountable. Stiff fines in retaliation to behavior, penalties committed, mistakes made, late arrivals to meetings and practice, showing up next year to training camp out of shape, should do the trick as far as accountability is concerned. In essence, Wade doesn't have to be an *******, is rules have to be. The only difficult thing I see for Wade is enforcing said rules. That remains to be seen. The team - well, a few people need to be traded or cut.

But you might be suprised to read that I don't think T.O. is among those players. I think, were not for the media's constant limelight, T.O. could be the Michael Irvin of the latter day Cowboys. T.O., as we all know, will get into a players *** if they aren't doing their job. If it were Irvin doing it, no one would say a thing. But since it's T.O. they have to make a huge deal about him being a cancer again. And it is sad really, because an unchained T.O. is probably what this team really needs.

Players who should be cut, benched or traded (depending on the impact said action would have on the Cap): Bobby Carpenter, Flozell Adams, Roy Williams (SS), Patrick Crayton, Greg Ellis, and Anthony Henry.

That's right, I'm still in Pacman's corner, because at the end of the day, he's cheap talent with huge upside should he ever return to his Titan self. In 2006, according to many analyst, he was a top 5 CB. I felt his suspension was overblown and ill-timed. At the end of the day, he cost us nothing because we got the draft pick we traded for him back as a result of the suspension.

Lastly, I would like to see JJ trade up in the draft - possibly using a combination of the aforementioned players and later round draft picks - to snag LSU's FS Curtis Taylor. A QB/WR in highschool, he is both strong against the Pass and Run, with a frame that could stand more weight to make him a ferocious hitter, as a possible replacement for please-don't-throw-it-my-way Roy.

Obviously, a QB, depth in our LB core in in the OL will need to be addressed, as well, but Safety is what I would place as a top priority.

Please feel free to debate, on analyzing college talent I am by no means an expert...

So basically you are all for the same circus next season.
 

jday

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Dave_in-NC;2544927 said:
So basically you are all for the same circus next season.
Well, if you are tired of the circus, we might have to replace some of the media, but as far as being realistic about who we keep and who we don't, yes, that's pretty much what I see.

Just to add to the list of players who might not be here, Tank and Zach Thomas, neither of which who I would want to replace with a rookie, so we might either have to switch the line around or look to Free Agency to fill those gaps.
 
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