News: The reason Cowboys are favorite to win East

[Diehardblues]

Because of the same reason The Cowboys are Playing Tampa 1st game. . . its all entertainment

While I’d agree entertainment is why they are opening season with Tampa, it’s not why they are being picked to win our division.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Look, I'm not going to pretend Dalton is a starting QB in the NFL today. He's not. Either was Nick Foles. And to be honest, he wasn't in 2017 either. That's why he was a backup.

Give some of these QBs the proper support, they can do better. My problem is people far too often think it's all on the QB. It's not. You're always going to need a supporting cast. A really good supporting cast can elevate bum QBs like Nick Foles to a SB. The worst thing for any QB is a line that can't protect them.

give any QB support and they can do better. that's the generalization for all of them. but can they lead you to anything? most probably not, except for Foles in 2017 where he caught fire. regardless of where Wentz is today (and I think its part physical, part mental), he had the team primed for a run and we now know it was Frank Reich (perhaps that's why he brought him to indy). but Dalton and Foles are really good back ups, hold things up until starter gets back. neither is going to take you anyway.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You appear to be speaking of Dalton as if he’s still in the prime of his career which he was a mid level starter. Was is the key word here.

And Dak by most experts, analysis and statistics would place him above middle tier closer to 8th- 12th. A conservative statement.

So, I think one could present a strong argument that Dak now entering his prime is a notch above Dalton who’s passed his prime.

I can’t imagine any Cowboy fan who’d argue otherwise. If they did I’d seriously question their Cowboys fandom and wonder if they weren’t trolling this board which at least you admit to possibility of.

I’d challenge anyone to find any expert analysis or link to support an opinion that Dalton provides the same level of opportunity to win our division as Dak does.

I wasn't aware Dalton had a prime!!! hmmm, interesting thought...

 

[NotForLong]

While I’d agree entertainment is why they are opening season with Tampa, it’s not why they are being picked to win our division.

To garner interest

 

[Diehardblues]

I wasn't aware Dalton had a prime!!! hmmm, interesting thought...

I hear ya but in all fairness Dalton was a solid middle tier QB in his prime while the Bengals were a consistent playoff team.

Those days have passed though . And he’s a solid backup now. Best backup we’ve had in years . But for some to argue we are the same team with him starting as Dak is pure trolling .

 

[Diehardblues]

To garner interest

No, they are favored to win the division because with Dak they have the best QB and offense .

And would have won division last year even with worst defense without losing Dak.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Kind of hard to judge. I think Dalton is past his prime. But it would have been nice to see what he could have done with our starting tackles. That's a rough situation for any QB. Ask Mahomes. He looked like dog crap too without his.

Dak looked as good as ever. Dalton definitely needs protection. No doubt he plays better with it. But he’s done.

 

[McKDaddy]

Troll like behavior on a Cowboys forum would include those fans intentionally bashing or discrediting our starting QB. You would need to reprimand @CowboyRoy and support me then. He was bashing the guy who started the most games last year. I was defending the player. From my post 168 "I am man enough to give a player (even a hated rival) their due. Certainly fair minded enough to give a player that wore the star the proper respect for his performance."

I asked you to provide any links or expert analysis that would support your opinions that Dalton and Dak are equal or similar values and talent at this time as you presented . You came up empty handed. I provided plenty of valid points throughout my banter with Roy and exchange with you as to why you could put any QB from that mid level group in the lineup and your results are going to be similar. The facts (not speculation) is that Andy won 4 games and "saved" the 5th win when he took over after Dak got hurt. Which is right in line with what a mid level starter would be expected to get you. His stat line last year is actually better than mid level starter. You can believe Dak's way better than Dalton. I respect your right to that opinion but you have to respect my right to my opinion that they are more similar than different. But for the zillionth time, the reason I was giving Roy a hard time was because he said Dalton's play last year was "garbage & sucked". It had nothing to do with Dak. Roy & I have had some good natured exchanges in the past & I was surprised he would have such a negative take. I was never mad at Roy, just couldn't understand his take on the player and thought he would relent to a fairer evaluation when presented with some pushback.

 

[McKDaddy]

If you think Dalton is a mid level starter, then you must be a troll.

To go thru every starting QB from last year and rank them in one of these buckets would be an interesting discussion for not only you & I but for the board as a whole. If there were a way to do each division visually on this forum. But I'm not aware of any good way to do that.
However, before you call me a troll you should keep in mind that there are NOT 32 Starter level QB's. In fact, for 2020 the first four groups would probably consist of less than 16 players. So, half the NFL is in the Unproven or definitely shouldn't be a starter but is by default category.

• High Level Starter
• Mid Level Starter
• Low Level Starter
• Unproven \ Not NFL Starter quality

 

[Diehardblues]

No, I don’t have to respect an opinion that sees Dalton past his prime as an equal or similar talent and ability as Dak.

And my challenge stands for you to provide any analysis from any expert or media to support your opinion. Otherwise it comes off as trolling Dak or an opinion that stands totally alone bordering on idiocy or ignorance.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No, I don’t have to respect an opinion that sees Dalton past his prime as an equal or similar talent and ability as Dak.

And my challenge stands for you to provide any analysis from any expert or media to support your opinion. Otherwise it comes off as trolling Dak or an opinion that stands totally alone bordering on idiocy or ignorance.

 

[McKDaddy]

No, I don’t have to respect an opinion that sees Dalton as an equal or similar talent and ability as Dak.

And my challenge stands for you to provide any analysis from any expert or media to support your opinion. Otherwise it comes off as trolling Dak or an opinion that stands totally alone bordering on idiocy or ignorance.

Well sir, you are the troll then. I don't owe you or anyone else a homework assignment to support my position. Any unbiased "fan" would have seen the games and could quickly evaluate the facts.

The real issue has nothing to do with my opinion of Dalton. It's that I dared say Dak is similar. I suspected that was the case early on but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Now you have fully revealed yourself. You don't respect anyone unless they agree with you. The mantra of too many in the CZ.

 

[Diehardblues]

Well sir, you are the troll then. I don't owe you or anyone else a homework assignment to support my position. Any unbiased "fan" would have seen the games and could quickly evaluate the facts.

The real issue has nothing to do with my opinion of Dalton. It's that I dared say Dak is similar. I suspected that was the case early on but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Now you have fully revealed yourself. You don't respect anyone unless they agree with you. The mantra of too many in the CZ.

The OP I presented was a media opinion. It wasn’t necessarily my opinion.

Im just challenging you to provide anything or anyone from the media , etc that would support your opinion.

And I’m not insinuating you’re a troll. I’m just saying on a Cowboys fan forum your opinion promoting Dalton is an equal to Dak comes off like trolling Dak. I can’t imagine a Cowboy fan actually believing it. I’d even like to see a notable Cowboy hater stating as such.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I hear ya but in all fairness Dalton was a solid middle tier QB in his prime while the Bengals were a consistent playoff team.

Those days have passed though . And he’s a solid backup now. Best backup we’ve had in years . But for some to argue we are the same team with him starting as Dak is pure trolling .

he was a solid middle tier QB. his problem was he had his worst games when it counted most. 1-12 in games that mattered. 0-5 in playoffs. he would be a good back up. needs a very strong supporting cast.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

To go thru every starting QB from last year and rank them in one of these buckets would be an interesting discussion for not only you & I but for the board as a whole. If there were a way to do each division visually on this forum. But I'm not aware of any good way to do that.
However, before you call me a troll you should keep in mind that there are NOT 32 Starter level QB's. In fact, for 2020 the first four groups would probably consist of less than 16 players. So, half the NFL is in the Unproven or definitely shouldn't be a starter but is by default category.

• High Level Starter
• Mid Level Starter
• Low Level Starter
• Unproven \ Not NFL Starter quality

I asked a simple question. Rank your QBs, your opinion. then others can debate. but rank your QBs....simple question. then we can draw a line where high, mid, low level starters are....do the same for 2021...not a hard question. don't avoid like you have. don't change the subject like you tried...just plain rank them.

 

[McKDaddy]

I asked a simple question. Rank your QBs, your opinion. then others can debate. but rank your QBs....simple question. then we can draw a line where high, mid, low level starters are....do the same for 2021...not a hard question. don't avoid like you have. don't change the subject like you tried...just plain rank them.

First, I have not changed my comments at all. I have not spoken of rankings. I have consistently spoken of groupings throughout this thread. Two completely different things.

Secondly, actually you didn't ask me to do anything. You said "If you think Dalton is a mid level starter, then you must be a troll."
I replied to your comment, politely I might add, providing an outline of how I viewed these groupings.
So, ball is in your court. You already know my answer. You tell me where you would rank Dalton in those groupings.

If you want to put skin in the game and go thru each division ranking the QB's from last year, we can alternate taking divisions. I would welcome a civil discussion. You up to do your part & have a good discussion?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

First, I have not changed my comments at all. I have not spoken of rankings. I have consistently spoken of groupings throughout this thread. Two completely different things.

Secondly, actually you didn't ask me to do anything. You said "If you think Dalton is a mid level starter, then you must be a troll."
I replied to your comment, politely I might add, providing an outline of how I viewed these groupings.
So, ball is in your court. You already know my answer. You tell me where you would rank Dalton in those groupings.

If you want to put skin in the game and go thru each division ranking the QB's from last year, we can alternate taking divisions. I would welcome a civil discussion. You up to do your part & have a good discussion?

backing out? just like a troll would....below is what I said

If you think Dalton is a mid level starter, then you must be a troll. so in that list of PFF, who would you rank ( below) Dalton. no, lets do even better. you said he is mid level, give us your ranking of the QBs, lets see who you put below Dalton....you sure talk a lot about him, so back it up, else you are nothing but a troll

at least back up your comments. else you have nothing and you are a troll.

right now Dalton ranks at the bottom of the league....using your groupings (so maybe you can follow) he is low level starter, somewhere in the 30-35th ranked QB in the NFL.... in fact I would take any of the PFF QBs over Dalton because Dalton has zero upside. his arrow is pointing down at a rapid pace...

see, not that hard.

group me the QBs you would put below him. tell me who is above him and then we go through where you grouped him and rank there

"grouping" is such a cop out....show some balls my friend....

 

[McKDaddy]

backing out? just like a troll would....below is what I said

If you think Dalton is a mid level starter, then you must be a troll. so in that list of PFF, who would you rank ( below) Dalton. no, lets do even better. you said he is mid level, give us your ranking of the QBs, lets see who you put below Dalton....you sure talk a lot about him, so back it up, else you are nothing but a troll

at least back up your comments. else you have nothing and you are a troll.

right now Dalton ranks at the bottom of the league....using your groupings (so maybe you can follow) he is low level starter, somewhere in the 30-35th ranked QB in the NFL.... in fact I would take any of the PFF QBs over Dalton because Dalton has zero upside. his arrow is pointing down at a rapid pace...

see, not that hard.

group me the QBs you would put below him. tell me who is above him and then we go through where you grouped him and rank there

"grouping" is such a cop out....show some balls my friend....

Yeah, despite your offensive & confrontational manner (when I had said nothing to you to begin with) I offered multiple times to work together to classify each QB into one of those groups but I'm the one that is a troll. Clearly you have trouble grasping reality.
So, you rank him as a low level starter but say he's 30-35th. Makes no sense. There aren't nearly that many legit starters to begin with.
I would respond to your last statement but I won't sink to your childish level. Good bye internet big shot.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yeah, despite your offensive & confrontational manner (when I had said nothing to you to begin with) I offered multiple times to work together to classify each QB into one of those groups but I'm the one that is a troll. Clearly you have trouble grasping reality.
So, you rank him as a low level starter but say he's 30-35th. Makes no sense. There aren't nearly that many legit starters to begin with.
I would respond to your last statement but I won't sink to your childish level. Good bye internet big shot.

here is the group I have above Dalton, in particular order

Rodgers
Brady
Wilson
Allan
Mahomes
Dak
Watson
Herbert
Mayfield
Roth
Murray
Goff
Stafford
Jackson
Ryan
Tannehill
Burrow
Carr
Cousins
Grappollo
Wentz
Tua
Darnold
Winston
Fitzpatrick

I take any of the above over Dalton in half a heartbeat. tell me you take Dalton over any of those guys? and why?

I take Fields, Hurts, Lawrence, Wilson, Mac Jones given they are young and have more talent and need time, specially on teams that have a longer outlook to success. 3 of those guys will outperform Dalton on the same rebuilding team...no way I would start Dalton ahead of any of those guys.

if I had to err on the side of caution, I would take Daniels Jones, Turbiskey and Lock over Dalton, as they have some upside and better talent with Dalton having no upside.
I would take Minshew, Kyle Allen, Marcus Mariotta over Dalton, at least they would be better back ups.

perhaps I take Dalton over Newton and Dwayne Haskins as I think Newton is done, finished and can't even be a reliable back up.

so if there is a category for mid level back ups, then Dalton belongs there.

 

[Flamma]

give any QB support and they can do better. that's the generalization for all of them. but can they lead you to anything? most probably not, except for Foles in 2017 where he caught fire. regardless of where Wentz is today (and I think its part physical, part mental), he had the team primed for a run and we now know it was Frank Reich (perhaps that's why he brought him to indy). but Dalton and Foles are really good back ups, hold things up until starter gets back. neither is going to take you anyway.

I agree. They're good backups to come in and hold down the fort until your starter returns. Something we didn't have in 2015. But rarely can they ever replace your starter. The days of Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler on the same team are over. Or even crazier, Montana and Young.