The very reason I can't sleep either - LaTunaNostra

50cent

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What has him troubled — what has him waking up choking on his bile — isn’t what you might expect. It’s not concern that the Commanders’ coaching staff could spring something on the Cowboys for which they are entirely unprepared. And it’s not his team’s raw ability. It’s a thing that’s harder to put into words, and impervious to strategy. Even as he is trying to study his next opponent, he can’t shake what happened on Sunday. How his team, the moment the Jaguars pushed back, collapsed. How, the moment the players felt the pressure, they began to commit penalties and the sort of small but critical mental errors that only a coach watching video can perceive. In their performance he smells the sort of failure he defines himself against.
At the back of Parcells’s personal binder there are a few loose, well-thumbed sheets that defy categorization: a copy of a speech by Douglas MacArthur; a passage from a book about coaches, which argues that a coach excels by purifying his particular vision rather than emulating a type. Among the papers is an anecdote Parcells brings up often in conversation, about a boxing match that took place nearly 30 years ago between the middleweights Vito Antuofermo and Cyclone Hart. Parcells loves boxing; his idea of a perfect day in the off-season is to spend it inside some ratty boxing gym in North Jersey. “It’s a laboratory,” he says. “You get a real feel for human behavior under the strongest duress — under the threat of physical harm.” In this laboratory he has identified a phenomenon he calls the game quitter. Game quitters, he says, seem “as if they are trying to win, but really they’ve given up. They’ve just chosen a way out that’s not apparent to the naked eye. They are more concerned with public opinion than the end result.”


This is an exerpt from the NY Times story posted about BP.. I recently started a thread that stated that I felt team thought we were soft. I had no evidence for that thought, but it was just a feeling a got. This exerpt explains my views about how we play against quality teams. It has nothing to do with wanting more thugs or trouble makers, but everything to do with having too many nice guys. Roy, Ware, Ellis, FLo, JJ, etc. They are all nice guys and are on the verge of being labeled the "Game Quitters", as well as others on this team! And this bothers the hell outta me.
 

50cent

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You mean give up the fact the our coach actually can see what I'm talking about, but you can't?
 

Bob Sacamano

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50cent;1122570 said:
You mean give up the fact the our coach actually can see what I'm talking about, but you can't?

no, this stupid agenda you're pushing, that you now include in your sig, and interject in every freakin' discussion

we get your point already, noone cares
 

50cent

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summerisfunner;1122573 said:
no, this stupid agenda you're pushing, that you now include in your sig, and interject in every freakin' discussion, go re-read today's PC recap
Before you get on your high horse, why don't you get your facts straight. My sig changed last season, when I first got the notion that we were soft. Next, I posted this in a PM to LaNostra, who thought it would be good for everyone to see. Your agenda to be blind to whats obvious is pretty tired. Go to bed if you don't want the truth.
 

50cent

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summerisfunner;1122577 said:
besides, you lost all credibility already calling Roy "soft"
Well i got all of it back with his play on monday night and the fact that his coach can see my point. Losing Cred to you is the least of my worries. Holla.
 

Bob Sacamano

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50cent;1122580 said:
Before you get on your high horse, why don't you get your facts straight. My sig changed last season, when I first got the notion that we were soft. Next, I posted this in a PM to LaNostra, who thought it would be good for everyone to see. Your agenda to be blind to whats obvious is pretty tired. Go to bed if you don't want the truth.

it's all jumbled, the wk. 1 performance, and what BP believes in, is he describing the Cowboys? doesn't look like it, sorry, random quotes in an article doesn't a point make
 

Bob Sacamano

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50cent;1122583 said:
Losing Cred to you is the least of my worries.

it seems from the reaction to that thread in question, you lost alot of credibility w/ a bunch of people
 

50cent

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summerisfunner;1122584 said:
it's all jumbled, the wk. 1 performance, and what BP believes in, is he describing the Cowboys? doesn't look like it
CAn you not read? The man clearly says what has him choking on his on bile. It how the Cowboys collapsed when the JAgs pushed back. Can you not read that? Move on dude, your losing your credibility. Since it so important to you.
 

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50cent;1122593 said:
CAn you not read? The man clears say what has him choking on his on bile. It how the Cowboys collapsed when the JAgs pushed back. Can you not read that? Move on dude, your losing your credibility. Since it so important to you.

all I see is a wk. 1 loss and some random quotes
 

50cent

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summerisfunner;1122594 said:
all I see is a wk. 1 loss and some random quotes
Well if you take time to read the article maybe you would understand. He boxing term and why he loves being in the boxing gym to watch human behavior. Its all talking about why he can't sleep, knowing his team wilted from another team punching back. The "GAme Quitter". Your losing more cred.
 

Bob Sacamano

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50cent;1122595 said:
Its all talking about why he can't sleep, knowing his team wilted from another team punching back.

it's the New York Post's interpretation, you gotta do better

edit: sorry, that's your interpretation, nice try though, but anyone who calls Roy William's "soft" can't interpret for shiznic
 

LaTunaNostra

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Dang, and I thought from the thread title, it was me costing you sleepless nights.:)

50cent said:
It’s a thing that’s harder to put into words, and impervious to strategy. Even as he is trying to study his next opponent, he can’t shake what happened on Sunday. How his team, the moment the Jaguars pushed back, collapsed. How, the moment the players felt the pressure, they began to commit penalties and the sort of small but critical mental errors that only a coach watching video can perceive. In their performance he smells the sort of failure he defines himself against.

Ok, that was the passage that most struck me too.

It has nothing to do with wanting more thugs or trouble makers, but everything to do with having too many nice guys. Roy, Ware, Ellis, FLo, JJ, etc. They are all nice guys and are on the verge of being labeled the "Game Quitters", as well as others on this team! And this bothers the hell outta me.

But I couldn't tell from the paragraph what the nature of the problem is..in fact, the writer terms it "impervious" to strategy, and hence to analysis, meaning even Bill can't put his finger on the root of it.

I didn't interpret it tho, as a lack of physical toughness as much as a lack of resistance to the pressure that comes about when one thing goes wrong, then another. It brought to mind Hemingway's classic definition of courage as 'grace under pressure'..which signifies a mental control more than a physical command.

It isn't from being mandhandled that the team stops processing events clearly..it sounds like a form of panic that feeds itself from self-doubt and lack of total understanding of what to do next.

If I am closer to 'it' than you are, that puts an even greater onus on Bill and his coaching staff

I really don't think being a 'nice guy' is the source of this phenomenon. Granted, I've never played football. But the thing read to me like the 'collapse' is the kind of mental reaction that can only be rectified with success built upon success upon further success. Bill once said (in 03) that no team can suffer losing for long before it starts to 'quit'. My guess is this team hasn't had a deep enough taste of winning to be able to handle the pressure of things going wrong.
 

50cent

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summerisfunner;1122597 said:
it's the New York Post's interpretation, you gotta do better
Like I said, can you read? The guy post an article from the times and you call it the post. You are now a "Game Quitter". You look like your trying to win this debayt, but you've already quit. Your more concerned with what the public opinion is thinking about you (YOUR CRED) that you have lost track who the article is focusing on. Thats BP and not the times interpretations.
 

LaTunaNostra

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summerisfunner;1122584 said:
it's all jumbled, the wk. 1 performance, and what BP believes in, is he describing the Cowboys? doesn't look like it, sorry, random quotes in an article doesn't a point make

Come on summer.

He's trying as a fan to get to the root of something that the head coach is also striving to understand.

I don't see why he should be ridiculed for bringing up the issue again when it clearly is THE factor that worries Bill the most.
 

Bob Sacamano

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LaTunaNostra;1122604 said:
I don't see why he shoud be ridiculed for bringing up the issue again when it clearly is THE factor that worries Bill the most.

yeah, it's a factor that worries him, but is it something that permeates the whole roster?

hardly

yet 50cent continues to pursue this thought relentlessly as if it's a fact, it gets old after awhile
 

dmq

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50cent;1122566 said:
What has him troubled — what has him waking up choking on his bile — isn’t what you might expect. It’s not concern that the Commanders’ coaching staff could spring something on the Cowboys for which they are entirely unprepared. And it’s not his team’s raw ability. It’s a thing that’s harder to put into words, and impervious to strategy. Even as he is trying to study his next opponent, he can’t shake what happened on Sunday. How his team, the moment the Jaguars pushed back, collapsed. How, the moment the players felt the pressure, they began to commit penalties and the sort of small but critical mental errors that only a coach watching video can perceive. In their performance he smells the sort of failure he defines himself against.
At the back of Parcells’s personal binder there are a few loose, well-thumbed sheets that defy categorization: a copy of a speech by Douglas MacArthur; a passage from a book about coaches, which argues that a coach excels by purifying his particular vision rather than emulating a type. Among the papers is an anecdote Parcells brings up often in conversation, about a boxing match that took place nearly 30 years ago between the middleweights Vito Antuofermo and Cyclone Hart. Parcells loves boxing; his idea of a perfect day in the off-season is to spend it inside some ratty boxing gym in North Jersey. “It’s a laboratory,” he says. “You get a real feel for human behavior under the strongest duress — under the threat of physical harm.” In this laboratory he has identified a phenomenon he calls the game quitter. Game quitters, he says, seem “as if they are trying to win, but really they’ve given up. They’ve just chosen a way out that’s not apparent to the naked eye. They are more concerned with public opinion than the end result.”


This is an exerpt from the NY Times story posted about BP.. I recently started a thread that stated that I felt team thought we were soft. I had no evidence for that thought, but it was just a feeling a got. This exerpt explains my views about how we play against quality teams. It has nothing to do with wanting more thugs or trouble makers, but everything to do with having too many nice guys. Roy, Ware, Ellis, FLo, JJ, etc. They are all nice guys and are on the verge of being labeled the "Game Quitters", as well as others on this team! And this bothers the hell outta me.

Good post. I believe it too.Looking at Parcells face on the sideline, he believes it. I almost think we need a couple criminals in this lineup. At least guys on the edge. Why you are getting bashed, I have no idea. Its not like you are a guy who has an agenda or something other than stating the facts from what I have read from you. I am hoping Romo might do something to put some energy in this team. A confident charismatic QB can have that effect on a team. I am hoping anyway.
 

ndanger

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LaTunaNostra;1122601 said:
Dang, and I thought from the thread title, it was me costing you sleepless nights.:)



Ok, that was the passage that most struck me too.



But I couldn't tell from the paragraph what the nature of the problem is..in fact, the writer terms it "impervious" to strategy, and hence to analysis, meaning even Bill can't put his finger on the root of it.

I didn't interpret it tho, as a lack of physical toughness as much as a lack of resistance to the pressure that comes about when one thing goes wrong, then another. It brought to mind Hemingway's classic definition of courage as 'grace under pressure'..which signifies a mental control more than a physical command.

It isn't from being mandhandled that the team stops processing events clearly..it sounds like a form of panic that feeds itself from self-doubt and lack of total understanding of what to do next.

If I am closer to 'it' than you are, that puts an even greater onus on Bill and his coaching staff

I really don't think being a 'nice guy' is the source of this phenomenon. Granted, I've never played football. But the thing read to me like the 'collapse' is the kind of mental reaction that can only be rectified with success built upon success upon further success. Bill once said (in 03) that no team can suffer losing for long before it starts to 'quit'. My guess is this team hasn't had a deep enough taste of winning to be able to handle the pressure of things going wrong.
****** Ltn that was very well put.You never cease to amaze me.
 

jem88

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summerisfunner;1122573 said:
no, this stupid agenda you're pushing, that you now include in your sig, and interject in every freakin' discussion

we get your point already, noone cares
An opinion is not the same thing as an agenda.
 
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