The View From My Couch: Dak and Romo

couchscout

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We can’t escape the Romo vs. Dak debate. It’s talked about on ESPN, every sports radio show, forums, blogs and articles all over the internet. We’ve discussed it on my podcast in every single episode. We’ve had Marcus Mosher (NeonDeion21) and Mark Lane (The Emperor) on the show and those two very popular Cowboys fans had drastically differing opinions. On Monday we’re gonna talk to Dave Halprin from BTB about it. I’ve remained relatively silent on it, but a moment of clarity yesterday has inspired me to write about it. What follows is no more and no less than one man’s attempt to find some sanity in a truly crazy situation.

These two quarterbacks take remarkably different approaches to the position. Romo is all pre-snap, and Prescott is all post-snap. Romo affects the running game with audibles, and blocking scheme changes, Prescott affects the running game with his legs and play fakes. When Romo misses, he usually misses wide, when Prescott misses he usually misses high. Two very different players operating what is essentially the same offense in very different ways.

When Romo steps up to the line of scrimmage in the pre-snap phase, he has four responsibilities. He must identify and call out the mike, he has to set the protection, he has to pick from a myriad of plays and make sure everyone on the offense knows which play he’s chosen, and he must, MUST get the defense to show their hand before the snap. This is why he runs the clock all the way down to 0.00001 second before the snap, because it forces the defense to get in the position they need to be at the snap. This is why Romo appears to go through his reads so fast, because he knows where he is going to throw the ball before the ball is snapped on probably 70% of his throws. When he’s wrong pre-snap, this is where he gets into so much trouble post-snap, holding onto the ball for too long, taking sacks and late throws that the defense has time to react to. On the plus side of this style, when he’s right pre-snap, he pushes the ball down the field several orders of magnitude better than Prescott. This style of play leaves Romo open to more hits which only exacerbates his current health problems.

When Prescott steps up to the line of scrimmage in the pre-snap phase, he has three responsibilities. He has to identify and call out the mike just like Tony, he does not set the protection, Fredbeard does that. He has to pick between one of two plays he’s been given and alert the offense if he’s checking away from the called play to the alternate (a much easier task than Romo’s) and he has to make his best educated guess about the defensive coverage before the ball is snapped. The majority of Prescott’s success comes post snap where I find he processes information much faster than Romo. The scary part about that is how green he is right now, he’s only going to get faster and better at post-snap diagnosis as his career continues. While this style of play tends to be safer it leads to a lot of shorter throws which can lead to other problems down the line. A quick example being a defense that decides to play a 2 man shell the whole game, Dak will automatically just take the checkdown every time because his pre-snap and post-snap reads will confirm the defense has the downfield stuff covered up. Typically defenses love doing this and forcing you to make your way down the field a little a time without making any mistakes. Fortunately Dak has shown the ability and patience to do just that. It’s also difficult to play that coverage when facing this offensive line and this stable of running backs.

All of this is why the pre-snap phase looks so much more hectic with Romo under center. Romo has a lot more to do and by design needs to snap the ball as late as possible.

So where do I come down on the whole Dak vs. Romo thing? I’m getting to that. When I have this debate internally, I always find myself going back to the play in Seattle where Tony got hurt. Two things really stand out to me about that play, neither of them being the injury itself. One, Tony bailed out of a clean pocket. Yes, it was a blitz, but Zeke stepped up and chopped down the blitzing player giving Romo plenty of time and space to throw. Tony bailed anyway. The second was how horribly unathletic he looked running/sliding. He didn’t get hurt because he’s fragile, numerous doctors have said as much on countless radio shows and blogs. He got hurt because he chose to slide in the most awkward way imaginable. If Tony’s mind is causing him to bail out of clean pockets, or his athleticism has eroded to the point that he can’t slide properly, he doesn’t need to be out there. Of course the rust factor has to be taken into account and perhaps if he hadn’t gotten injured on that play, it would have all started coming back to him before the Seattle game was over.

We’ve all asked the question: What happens if we are 5-1 when Romo is ready to come back? If Dak wins the next two games, and especially if the offense looks impressive in those wins, I think you have to stick with him simply because you don’t want to ruin something that is clearly working. If Dak loses one or both of the next two, or the offense looks very poor in wins, you have to give Romo a chance, with the caveat that he has to knock the rust off relatively quickly and improve the offense. Of course all of this is contingent on Romo being completely healthy. You stick with Dak until Romo is 100%.

The fun part about the debate is that the future is extremely bright no matter which side you find yourself on, which is great for this football junkie.
 

Tusan_Homichi

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Very interesting analysis. I know that Romo at least attempts to protect himself when he can (chuck and duck), but the fact that he's missed so much time the last few times he's taken a hit has to be taking a toll on how willing he is to hang in the pocket at all.

I'm guessing we will know pretty quick after Romo is healthy whether that's a permanent issue now or if it's just a matter of taking a few hits before he settles in.
 

rational1

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The smart thing to do is to eventually go back to Romo if he is healthy enough to do so. If they don't go this route and the young kid hits a rough patch later this season, fans and media will be clamoring to get Romo back if they have a chance at the playoffs. This would then force the FO to make a needlessly difficult choice of riding it out with the rookie or risk ruining him by pulling him to go back to Romo.

The safe choice is to give Romo his job back and see where things take you from there.
 

JIMMYBUFFETT

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I like the write up, but disagree about processing information. #1 I don't believe you can possibly determine that from "your couch", and #2 I don't believe that a rookie QB processes anything faster than a 10 year veteran. I think Dak's best attribute is staying within the game plan that is called for him, and being unflappable in executing that game plan.
 

erod

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I don't have any issue with him leaving that particular pocket. The slide was awful, though, for sure.

Romo had this look when he left the pocket like, "It's preseason. What the hell am I doing?" It looked hesitant like he wasn't sure what to do, and it led to a really awkward slide. Plus, he didn't know a guy was bearing down from behind, and he got bent over sideways.

At least now, with Dak looking like a future answer, Romo can just let it rip and see what happens. I look forward to that first big hit. If he gets up OK, he'll feel better, so will we, and off he goes.
 
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Trouty

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We can’t escape the Romo vs. Dak debate. It’s talked about on ESPN, every sports radio show, forums, blogs and articles all over the internet. We’ve discussed it on my podcast in every single episode. We’ve had Marcus Mosher (NeonDeion21) and Mark Lane (The Emperor) on the show and those two very popular Cowboys fans had drastically differing opinions. On Monday we’re gonna talk to Dave Halprin from BTB about it. I’ve remained relatively silent on it, but a moment of clarity yesterday has inspired me to write about it. What follows is no more and no less than one man’s attempt to find some sanity in a truly crazy situation.

These two quarterbacks take remarkably different approaches to the position. Romo is all pre-snap, and Prescott is all post-snap. Romo affects the running game with audibles, and blocking scheme changes, Prescott affects the running game with his legs and play fakes. When Romo misses, he usually misses wide, when Prescott misses he usually misses high. Two very different players operating what is essentially the same offense in very different ways.

When Romo steps up to the line of scrimmage in the pre-snap phase, he has four responsibilities. He must identify and call out the mike, he has to set the protection, he has to pick from a myriad of plays and make sure everyone on the offense knows which play he’s chosen, and he must, MUST get the defense to show their hand before the snap. This is why he runs the clock all the way down to 0.00001 second before the snap, because it forces the defense to get in the position they need to be at the snap. This is why Romo appears to go through his reads so fast, because he knows where he is going to throw the ball before the ball is snapped on probably 70% of his throws. When he’s wrong pre-snap, this is where he gets into so much trouble post-snap, holding onto the ball for too long, taking sacks and late throws that the defense has time to react to. On the plus side of this style, when he’s right pre-snap, he pushes the ball down the field several orders of magnitude better than Prescott. This style of play leaves Romo open to more hits which only exacerbates his current health problems.

When Prescott steps up to the line of scrimmage in the pre-snap phase, he has three responsibilities. He has to identify and call out the mike just like Tony, he does not set the protection, Fredbeard does that. He has to pick between one of two plays he’s been given and alert the offense if he’s checking away from the called play to the alternate (a much easier task than Romo’s) and he has to make his best educated guess about the defensive coverage before the ball is snapped. The majority of Prescott’s success comes post snap where I find he processes information much faster than Romo. The scary part about that is how green he is right now, he’s only going to get faster and better at post-snap diagnosis as his career continues. While this style of play tends to be safer it leads to a lot of shorter throws which can lead to other problems down the line. A quick example being a defense that decides to play a 2 man shell the whole game, Dak will automatically just take the checkdown every time because his pre-snap and post-snap reads will confirm the defense has the downfield stuff covered up. Typically defenses love doing this and forcing you to make your way down the field a little a time without making any mistakes. Fortunately Dak has shown the ability and patience to do just that. It’s also difficult to play that coverage when facing this offensive line and this stable of running backs.

All of this is why the pre-snap phase looks so much more hectic with Romo under center. Romo has a lot more to do and by design needs to snap the ball as late as possible.

So where do I come down on the whole Dak vs. Romo thing? I’m getting to that. When I have this debate internally, I always find myself going back to the play in Seattle where Tony got hurt. Two things really stand out to me about that play, neither of them being the injury itself. One, Tony bailed out of a clean pocket. Yes, it was a blitz, but Zeke stepped up and chopped down the blitzing player giving Romo plenty of time and space to throw. Tony bailed anyway. The second was how horribly unathletic he looked running/sliding. He didn’t get hurt because he’s fragile, numerous doctors have said as much on countless radio shows and blogs. He got hurt because he chose to slide in the most awkward way imaginable. If Tony’s mind is causing him to bail out of clean pockets, or his athleticism has eroded to the point that he can’t slide properly, he doesn’t need to be out there. Of course the rust factor has to be taken into account and perhaps if he hadn’t gotten injured on that play, it would have all started coming back to him before the Seattle game was over.

We’ve all asked the question: What happens if we are 5-1 when Romo is ready to come back? If Dak wins the next two games, and especially if the offense looks impressive in those wins, I think you have to stick with him simply because you don’t want to ruin something that is clearly working. If Dak loses one or both of the next two, or the offense looks very poor in wins, you have to give Romo a chance, with the caveat that he has to knock the rust off relatively quickly and improve the offense. Of course all of this is contingent on Romo being completely healthy. You stick with Dak until Romo is 100%.

The fun part about the debate is that the future is extremely bright no matter which side you find yourself on, which is great for this football junkie.

Couch, do you see Dak as a player that has the ability/upside to develop the type of "presnap game" (if you will) that Romo and other elite QB's possess? I realize it's a small sample size, just want to know your opinion based off the very small amount of games we've had to watch Dak. Thank you, and a wonderful write up.
 

erod

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The OP has a wrong interpretation of what QBs like Romo are doing and seeing before a play.

Romo can look at an alignment and, with great certainty, know who's really blitzing, who's bluffing, where the safeties will flow, and what the linebackers coverage will be.

He can literally make adjustments that give a short route a chance to go the distance, or create space for a running play to be more successful. Simply by changing routes and moving receivers around.

Right now, Dak is just changing from run to pass or pass to run. He can alter a route perhaps. That's it.

That takes years to understand, and most never do.
 

JDSmith

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I think Romo bailed on the pocket because he didn't trust Zeke. He hadn't played with him at all, Zeke was fresh out of college with almost no practice, and I know I was shocked at how well he picked up the blitz. Romo probably just didn't want to get killed when the rookie screwed it up.

The slide looked like one of those times when you try to do two contradictory things at once. I think the problem was one of indecision.
 

ThreeandOut

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If Dak continues to win, Romo has very little margin for error if he takes over as starter. He may get a short grace period to knock off the rust, but he needs to be the 2014 version of Romo pretty quickly.
 

erod

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I think Romo bailed on the pocket because he didn't trust Zeke. He hadn't played with him at all, Zeke was fresh out of college with almost no practice, and I know I was shocked at how well he picked up the blitz. Romo probably just didn't want to get killed when the rookie screwed it up.

The slide looked like one of those times when you try to do two contradictory things at once. I think the problem was one of indecision.

Yep, his mind zigged and zagged at the same time, and he did a butt flop.
 

Doomsday101

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For me it is simple, Romo at 100% I will take that any day. If Romo is no longer able to play at that pro bowl level then I would make the move and put Dak back in for good.

No one here can say with any certainty how Romo will be when he returns and we can't say how long he will be able to play. For me it is win/win because I see a chance to have a pro bowl caliber QB behind center and a young man whose future with this organization looks very promising. People as always are playing this game that if you like Romo you don't like Dak or if you are pro Dak you don't like Romo. Me I like having both it beats the hell out of the alternative which is not having a decent QB at all
 

Trouty

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The OP has a wrong interpretation of what QBs like Romo are doing and seeing before a play.

Romo can look at an alignment and, with great certainty, know who's really blitzing, who's bluffing, where the safeties will flow, and what the linebackers coverage will be.

He can literally make adjustments that give a short route a chance to go the distance, or create space for a running play to be more successful. Simply by changing routes and moving receivers around.

Right now, Dak is just changing from run to pass or pass to run. He can alter a route perhaps. That's it.

That takes years to understand, and most never do.

Didn't he say that, more or less, in his OP? (Granted, he used run designs instead of pass designs as an example, but he definitely touched on what you just posted)
 

Yakuza Rich

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Truth be told, from 2009 to 2013 Tony had an issue with bailing out of clean pockets. I remember a few years ago against the Bucs there was a play where he bailed out of a clean pocket, ran into Flozell and then scrambled out of trouble and fired for a touchdown. The fans here complained about the protection which wasn't the problem because they gave him a clean pocket and time. Then they complained about the receivers...but, Miles Austin (who caught the TD) was open the entire time. Even in 2013 when the pass protection was excellent, he really had trouble. And he didnd't start to come around nicely until 2014 when it came to taking advantage of a clean pocket.

I think part of this is coaching. Romo was at his best when he could step up into the pocket. Instead, they tried to get him to 'play like Tom Brady' with him hanging in the far back of the pocket. Problem was that Romo doesn't have Brady's arm strength, isn't nearly as good at throwing out passes from that position in the pocket and doesn't throw the underneath stuff nearly as well as Brady.

And I've never liked Romo setting up line protections because of the time it takes. It gets the offense out of sync as well and makes for more pre-snap penalties while allowing defenses to set their blitzes. I don't think you have to be Chip Kelly and speed up the offense, but I like an offense that can change up the time they snap the ball to keep the defense off balance.

I think the biggest difference between Romo and Dak so far is that while both are very adept at the intermediate throws, Dak is much more proficient at the short/underneath throws and Romo is much more proficient on the deep throw. That and Romo is a great athlete mainly due to terrific hand/eye coordination while Dak is a phenomenal athlete due to his pure physical abilities.

I don't want Romo coming back this year because I think he's going to get hurt badly and I'd rather keep going with Dak and start to prepare for next season when we can cut Romo, save money against the cap and start to work on the defense, TE and #2 WR.




YR
 

couchscout

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The OP has a wrong interpretation of what QBs like Romo are doing and seeing before a play.

Romo can look at an alignment and, with great certainty, know who's really blitzing, who's bluffing, where the safeties will flow, and what the linebackers coverage will be.

He can literally make adjustments that give a short route a chance to go the distance, or create space for a running play to be more successful. Simply by changing routes and moving receivers around.

Right now, Dak is just changing from run to pass or pass to run. He can alter a route perhaps. That's it.

That takes years to understand, and most never do.


....this is exactly what I just said. Romo's strength is pre-snap, chaging the play, the audibles, the routes, the protections, etc. based on what he sees pre-snap. Dak is given far less responsibility.
 
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