The View From My Couch: Dak and Romo

Trouty

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It looks like his foot did indeed get stuck, but only after he had already begun his slide and after contact by the defender was made. In fact, the contact is what may have caused his foot to get caught up underneath him.
 

ScipioCowboy

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The OP has a wrong interpretation of what QBs like Romo are doing and seeing before a play.

Romo can look at an alignment and, with great certainty, know who's really blitzing, who's bluffing, where the safeties will flow, and what the linebackers coverage will be.

He can literally make adjustments that give a short route a chance to go the distance, or create space for a running play to be more successful. Simply by changing routes and moving receivers around.

Right now, Dak is just changing from run to pass or pass to run. He can alter a route perhaps. That's it.

That takes years to understand, and most never do.

That's what he said.
 

NextGenBoys

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We can’t escape the Romo vs. Dak debate. It’s talked about on ESPN, every sports radio show, forums, blogs and articles all over the internet. We’ve discussed it on my podcast in every single episode. We’ve had Marcus Mosher (NeonDeion21) and Mark Lane (The Emperor) on the show and those two very popular Cowboys fans had drastically differing opinions. On Monday we’re gonna talk to Dave Halprin from BTB about it. I’ve remained relatively silent on it, but a moment of clarity yesterday has inspired me to write about it. What follows is no more and no less than one man’s attempt to find some sanity in a truly crazy situation.

These two quarterbacks take remarkably different approaches to the position. Romo is all pre-snap, and Prescott is all post-snap. Romo affects the running game with audibles, and blocking scheme changes, Prescott affects the running game with his legs and play fakes. When Romo misses, he usually misses wide, when Prescott misses he usually misses high. Two very different players operating what is essentially the same offense in very different ways.

When Romo steps up to the line of scrimmage in the pre-snap phase, he has four responsibilities. He must identify and call out the mike, he has to set the protection, he has to pick from a myriad of plays and make sure everyone on the offense knows which play he’s chosen, and he must, MUST get the defense to show their hand before the snap. This is why he runs the clock all the way down to 0.00001 second before the snap, because it forces the defense to get in the position they need to be at the snap. This is why Romo appears to go through his reads so fast, because he knows where he is going to throw the ball before the ball is snapped on probably 70% of his throws. When he’s wrong pre-snap, this is where he gets into so much trouble post-snap, holding onto the ball for too long, taking sacks and late throws that the defense has time to react to. On the plus side of this style, when he’s right pre-snap, he pushes the ball down the field several orders of magnitude better than Prescott. This style of play leaves Romo open to more hits which only exacerbates his current health problems.

When Prescott steps up to the line of scrimmage in the pre-snap phase, he has three responsibilities. He has to identify and call out the mike just like Tony, he does not set the protection, Fredbeard does that. He has to pick between one of two plays he’s been given and alert the offense if he’s checking away from the called play to the alternate (a much easier task than Romo’s) and he has to make his best educated guess about the defensive coverage before the ball is snapped. The majority of Prescott’s success comes post snap where I find he processes information much faster than Romo. The scary part about that is how green he is right now, he’s only going to get faster and better at post-snap diagnosis as his career continues. While this style of play tends to be safer it leads to a lot of shorter throws which can lead to other problems down the line. A quick example being a defense that decides to play a 2 man shell the whole game, Dak will automatically just take the checkdown every time because his pre-snap and post-snap reads will confirm the defense has the downfield stuff covered up. Typically defenses love doing this and forcing you to make your way down the field a little a time without making any mistakes. Fortunately Dak has shown the ability and patience to do just that. It’s also difficult to play that coverage when facing this offensive line and this stable of running backs.

All of this is why the pre-snap phase looks so much more hectic with Romo under center. Romo has a lot more to do and by design needs to snap the ball as late as possible.

So where do I come down on the whole Dak vs. Romo thing? I’m getting to that. When I have this debate internally, I always find myself going back to the play in Seattle where Tony got hurt. Two things really stand out to me about that play, neither of them being the injury itself. One, Tony bailed out of a clean pocket. Yes, it was a blitz, but Zeke stepped up and chopped down the blitzing player giving Romo plenty of time and space to throw. Tony bailed anyway. The second was how horribly unathletic he looked running/sliding. He didn’t get hurt because he’s fragile, numerous doctors have said as much on countless radio shows and blogs. He got hurt because he chose to slide in the most awkward way imaginable. If Tony’s mind is causing him to bail out of clean pockets, or his athleticism has eroded to the point that he can’t slide properly, he doesn’t need to be out there. Of course the rust factor has to be taken into account and perhaps if he hadn’t gotten injured on that play, it would have all started coming back to him before the Seattle game was over.

We’ve all asked the question: What happens if we are 5-1 when Romo is ready to come back? If Dak wins the next two games, and especially if the offense looks impressive in those wins, I think you have to stick with him simply because you don’t want to ruin something that is clearly working. If Dak loses one or both of the next two, or the offense looks very poor in wins, you have to give Romo a chance, with the caveat that he has to knock the rust off relatively quickly and improve the offense. Of course all of this is contingent on Romo being completely healthy. You stick with Dak until Romo is 100%.

The fun part about the debate is that the future is extremely bright no matter which side you find yourself on, which is great for this football junkie.

Spot on. There is no answer yet. We will find out the next two weeks.

Btw, I'll check out your podcast. Love what you post here. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

couchscout

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Spot on. There is no answer yet. We will find out the next two weeks.

Btw, I'll check out your podcast. Love what you post here. Thanks for your thoughts.

Thanks. I think you'll enjoy the podcast, it's recorded in a radio studio so the sound quality is excellent.
 

Homer

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I'm sure we will have at least 10 more threads with Dak vs Romo, who to choose. I know i'm glad I don't have to be the one to make that decision. Regardless of what decision is made, 50% of the fanbase will be angry.
 

couchscout

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I'm sure we will have at least 10 more threads with Dak vs Romo, who to choose. I know i'm glad I don't have to be the one to make that decision. Regardless of what decision is made, 50% of the fanbase will be angry.

Quoted for truth.
 

Broges74

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I started off saying Romo should get his job back but...

We are going to have to have big plays this week I'd Dez is out again. We are not going to be able to run the ball against Cincy like we have been and I think Cincy is going to put up points. This is the first game where I've felt it's on Dak's shoulders. If he can win a game like this where they are going to take away what he likes to do, I just don't see how you can go back.
 

Mr Cowboy

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If Tony’s mind is causing him to bail out of clean pockets, or his athleticism has eroded to the point that he can’t slide properly, he doesn’t need to be out there. Of course the rust factor has to be taken into account and perhaps if he hadn’t gotten injured on that play, it would have all started coming back to him before the Seattle game was over.
This is my concern for Tony being handed the starting role when he heals up. He hasn't played a whole lot of meaningful football in the last 18 months. To expect him to come in and pick up where he left off in the playoff game at Green Bay, is not realistic. When he gets back in he will be very rusty, it will take him time to get back in the groove.

Many here seem to think that when he comes back, he will be slinging it around like he's never been injured. That just will not happen. There will be interceptions, fumbles, sacks and a whole bunch of 3 and outs. Fans will be screaming for Dak, and that's when the real QB controversy take shape. Of course the same thing will happen when Dak has his bad games.

I love Tony to death, but if Dak keeps winning games, I just can't see how you can replace him.
 

kazzd58

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I don't want Romo coming back this year because I think he's going to get hurt badly and I'd rather keep going with Dak and start to prepare for next season when we can cut Romo, save money against the cap and start to work on the defense, TE and #2 WR.



Ha funny u say that about the TE on your list i told my fam on saturday that it looks like Dak loves throwing to the TE's so thats what i'm looking at this year in college who the cold ones that can actually translate to the NFL, like Witten's intangibles and toughness with waaaayyy more athletic ability wold be nice ijs one that can actually score from 30+ yards out after catching a 7 yd pass would be nice is all I'm saying.. they out there



YR


Ha funny u say that about the TE on your list i told my fam on saturday that it looks like Dak loves throwing to the TE's so thats what i'm looking at this year in college who the cold ones that can actually translate to the NFL, like Witten's intangibles and toughness with waaaayyy more athletic ability wold be nice ijs one that can actually score from 30+ yards out after catching a 7 yd pass would be nice is all I'm saying.. they out there
 

Beast_from_East

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I think this situation is going to take care of itself.

Honestly, the game before the bye week is Green Bay in Lambeau. If Dak loses that game (which in all likely hood we will), then it gives Romo the bye week to get back into practice and get ready for the Eagles on Oct 30 and most fans will be ok with that decision since Dak just lost to the Packers.

Now what is going to be very interesting is if Dak actually beats the Packers and we are 5-1 going into the bye (this assumes we beat the Bengals) riding a 5 game winning streak. It is going to be very hard to make the change under that scenario.
 

jday

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We can’t escape the Romo vs. Dak debate. It’s talked about on ESPN, every sports radio show, forums, blogs and articles all over the internet. We’ve discussed it on my podcast in every single episode. We’ve had Marcus Mosher (NeonDeion21) and Mark Lane (The Emperor) on the show and those two very popular Cowboys fans had drastically differing opinions. On Monday we’re gonna talk to Dave Halprin from BTB about it. I’ve remained relatively silent on it, but a moment of clarity yesterday has inspired me to write about it. What follows is no more and no less than one man’s attempt to find some sanity in a truly crazy situation.

These two quarterbacks take remarkably different approaches to the position. Romo is all pre-snap, and Prescott is all post-snap. Romo affects the running game with audibles, and blocking scheme changes, Prescott affects the running game with his legs and play fakes. When Romo misses, he usually misses wide, when Prescott misses he usually misses high. Two very different players operating what is essentially the same offense in very different ways.

When Romo steps up to the line of scrimmage in the pre-snap phase, he has four responsibilities. He must identify and call out the mike, he has to set the protection, he has to pick from a myriad of plays and make sure everyone on the offense knows which play he’s chosen, and he must, MUST get the defense to show their hand before the snap. This is why he runs the clock all the way down to 0.00001 second before the snap, because it forces the defense to get in the position they need to be at the snap. This is why Romo appears to go through his reads so fast, because he knows where he is going to throw the ball before the ball is snapped on probably 70% of his throws. When he’s wrong pre-snap, this is where he gets into so much trouble post-snap, holding onto the ball for too long, taking sacks and late throws that the defense has time to react to. On the plus side of this style, when he’s right pre-snap, he pushes the ball down the field several orders of magnitude better than Prescott. This style of play leaves Romo open to more hits which only exacerbates his current health problems.

When Prescott steps up to the line of scrimmage in the pre-snap phase, he has three responsibilities. He has to identify and call out the mike just like Tony, he does not set the protection, Fredbeard does that. He has to pick between one of two plays he’s been given and alert the offense if he’s checking away from the called play to the alternate (a much easier task than Romo’s) and he has to make his best educated guess about the defensive coverage before the ball is snapped. The majority of Prescott’s success comes post snap where I find he processes information much faster than Romo. The scary part about that is how green he is right now, he’s only going to get faster and better at post-snap diagnosis as his career continues. While this style of play tends to be safer it leads to a lot of shorter throws which can lead to other problems down the line. A quick example being a defense that decides to play a 2 man shell the whole game, Dak will automatically just take the checkdown every time because his pre-snap and post-snap reads will confirm the defense has the downfield stuff covered up. Typically defenses love doing this and forcing you to make your way down the field a little a time without making any mistakes. Fortunately Dak has shown the ability and patience to do just that. It’s also difficult to play that coverage when facing this offensive line and this stable of running backs.

All of this is why the pre-snap phase looks so much more hectic with Romo under center. Romo has a lot more to do and by design needs to snap the ball as late as possible.

So where do I come down on the whole Dak vs. Romo thing? I’m getting to that. When I have this debate internally, I always find myself going back to the play in Seattle where Tony got hurt. Two things really stand out to me about that play, neither of them being the injury itself. One, Tony bailed out of a clean pocket. Yes, it was a blitz, but Zeke stepped up and chopped down the blitzing player giving Romo plenty of time and space to throw. Tony bailed anyway. The second was how horribly unathletic he looked running/sliding. He didn’t get hurt because he’s fragile, numerous doctors have said as much on countless radio shows and blogs. He got hurt because he chose to slide in the most awkward way imaginable. If Tony’s mind is causing him to bail out of clean pockets, or his athleticism has eroded to the point that he can’t slide properly, he doesn’t need to be out there. Of course the rust factor has to be taken into account and perhaps if he hadn’t gotten injured on that play, it would have all started coming back to him before the Seattle game was over.

We’ve all asked the question: What happens if we are 5-1 when Romo is ready to come back? If Dak wins the next two games, and especially if the offense looks impressive in those wins, I think you have to stick with him simply because you don’t want to ruin something that is clearly working. If Dak loses one or both of the next two, or the offense looks very poor in wins, you have to give Romo a chance, with the caveat that he has to knock the rust off relatively quickly and improve the offense. Of course all of this is contingent on Romo being completely healthy. You stick with Dak until Romo is 100%.

The fun part about the debate is that the future is extremely bright no matter which side you find yourself on, which is great for this football junkie.
Excellent write-up, Couchscout. I especially liked the way you broke down the difference between Romo and Dak. As you may have noticed, I too have been having internal struggles with this debate. At this point, I honest don't think there is any right or wrong answer...at least, not until we see what Romo is capable of doing at this point in his career. And I, too, think back to that fateful day in preseason against Seattle...the way he looked trying to run away from the pass rush was hard to watch; his get up and go has certainly got up and went. And if he can't escape pressure any better than that (real or imagined), I struggle to believe he truly gives the Cowboys a better chance, even with his superior experience and pre-snap expertise.
 

reddyuta

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Honestly Romo was not very good last season either even though we won when he was playing except when he got got hurt again.I think Romo should play when he is healthy to see if can really play well or if we are better off with the Rookie.
 

Yakuza Rich

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Ha funny u say that about the TE on your list i told my fam on saturday that it looks like Dak loves throwing to the TE's so thats what i'm looking at this year in college who the cold ones that can actually translate to the NFL, like Witten's intangibles and toughness with waaaayyy more athletic ability wold be nice ijs one that can actually score from 30+ yards out after catching a 7 yd pass would be nice is all I'm saying.. they out there

The offensive scheme is designed where it needs an all around tight end. What worries more about Witten is his blocking. I think you could get a TE that was good at blocking and sitting down in zones and be more effective for the offense than a good pass receiving TE that can't block. Swaim hasn't shown that sense of sitting down in zones. The blocking aspect is huge because it's a zone run team and the TE blocking allows for us to set the edge and get those outside zone runs where the big runs should occur (or on those cutbacks set by the defenses overloading to the outside). But, if you have a TE that can't pass catch, then the offense is too predictable when the TE comes into the game.





YR
 

Clove

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It's no secret that Romo will bail from the pocket and allow things to REALLY open up before throwing. Dak on the other hand is a pure pocket guy that trusts his blockers and will stand in and make the throw. Neither is bad, IMO. With Romo right now, he's scared of getting injured. When you become scared of getting injured, it's time.
 

65fastback2plus2

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So where do I come down on the whole Dak vs. Romo thing? I’m getting to that. When I have this debate internally, I always find myself going back to the play in Seattle where Tony got hurt. Two things really stand out to me about that play, neither of them being the injury itself. One, Tony bailed out of a clean pocket. Yes, it was a blitz, but Zeke stepped up and chopped down the blitzing player giving Romo plenty of time and space to throw. Tony bailed anyway. The second was how horribly unathletic he looked running/sliding. He didn’t get hurt because he’s fragile, numerous doctors have said as much on countless radio shows and blogs. He got hurt because he chose to slide in the most awkward way imaginable. If Tony’s mind is causing him to bail out of clean pockets, or his athleticism has eroded to the point that he can’t slide properly, he doesn’t need to be out there. Of course the rust factor has to be taken into account and perhaps if he hadn’t gotten injured on that play, it would have all started coming back to him before the Seattle game was over.

I was with you until here.

Couple of corrections Id make

1) Its not so much that tony bailed on a clean pocket, the guy that got him was behind him. Its that tony has a clock timer for how long he finds a pocket holds. When it goes off, he bails. Now you can complain about it if you want, but 95% of the time, he's spot on. Its how he's houdini'd so many defenders over the years. Its not athleticism...its his impeccable timing. You have to a lot that sometimes this timer is going to be off...cant be perfect every time.

2) Acting like Tony is unathletic when running...do you know tony? He came into the league running a 5.1 40. He has ALWAYS been unathletic when running. Why do you think he only has like 2 rushing TD's his entire career? Because he's never been fast enough to go anywhere lol.

3) Why does it look like tony doesnt know how to slide? Because he doesnt want to slide...its not a natural thought for him. ANYTHING when forced is going to look unnatural and unathletic. People used to complain he wouldnt slide or go down. He's trying to do that now, but he literally has to interrupt his thought pattern and remind himself to do so.

4) None of these things you mentioned here are anything new. They've been Tony for a long, long time and they have little to do with his effectiveness. 2014 Tony did these exact same, identical things.
 

Toruk_Makto

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I take issue with the "Dak is processing information faster than Romo post snap."

We have seen numerous times post snap guys come open for tds (thinking Bears and Dez week 1) and Dak simply never, ever saw them.

One of the reasons guys like Laurent had so much success here (Terrance as well) was Romo recognizing information as a long play unfolds and "seeing" how everyone is moving and knowing where Terrance Robinson Laurent Williams would come open.
 

CowboyStar88

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I didn't notice it if he did. I'll have to go watch it again and see if I can spot that. Looked to me like he was just indecisive about the slide causing it to look really awkward.

I swear there were comments about it and it contributed to the funky play
 
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