They are capping wall street execs

[YosemiteSam]

So you think a struggling firm should pay no bonuses to their top 10 revenue producers who exceed their goals, knowing that if they don't, those employees take their clients to a competitor?

It's just part of the territory, you have to retain your revenue producers to help you get out of the problem quicker.

It's not great, but part of the territory. I do not have a problem with Exec/C-level employees being capped if the took gov't money. But capping everything is counterproductive.

You pay them out of your pocket. Why should I pay someone a bonus that didn't do a damn thing for me except put the country I live in into serious debt? You are so far off it's stupid if you think the tax payers paying multi-million dollar bonuses is part of the territory. I love how you think it's only their top 10 revenue producers that are getting paid. On top of that, I seriously doubt anyone produced a possitive number in any of the companies that are paying bonues with tax payer monies.

I work in the financial world in lower Manhattan. I've seen what these *******s have done and do. I ride the ****ing train with them every morning and every evening.

 

[dillinger319]

So when socialism is the order of the day. And everyone makes the same money.

Where is the incentive to go the extra yard?

Wanna kill the human spirit?

Enact socialism today.

The liquor companies will love this idea.

I completly agree here...... If you want to make more money its in your hands..... Start your own business, give yourself a bonus that way you dont have to pay as much taxes on it the next year..... lol..... But Im sure where Im from its a little different..... We are just now starting to see the whole recession thing and its just temporary here. Oil will go up to about 60 bbl and prices willl drop and Ill be making a killing again.

Why? cause I work hard long hours and earn what I get. well most of the time hehehe

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

shouldn't they cap the players also? Ticket prices are becoming insane. Hopefully businesses won't buy as much which will drive the prices down and if there are more and more empty seats around the NFL they will have to lower prices.

No, they are not. They are limiting the pay of banking execs that are accepting bail out mony. IOW, they have a choice and quite frankly people should not be paid for failure.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So when socialism is the order of the day. And everyone makes the same money.

Where is the incentive to go the extra yard?

Wanna kill the human spirit?

Enact socialism today.

The liquor companies will love this idea.

In third world countries. In a place like Afghanistand where living conditions are horrible and where 'the grass is greener on the other side' mentality persists even amongst the middle class.

Everyone likes to talk about the collapse of the Soviet Union and how China is forced to switch to a free market but they are missing the big picture. When you aredealing with a peasant economy of 1917 Russia or 1945 China, distributing power is not a good idea. The people have no clue what they are doing.

Once the populace is educated and infrastructure built then sure general democracy and economic autonomy is the way to go

America's policy of the last 70 years of democracy and free markets is good for everyone is not too successful. We have alienated South America and Central America and essentially allowed a drug economy to flourish. We lost our control over China and alienated the majority of south and central Asia.

Did it ever occur to you why there is a pendulum swing back and forth between conservative and economic ideologies? Its not just for fun and it does actually have a pracitcal purpose.

 

[TheDude]

You pay them out of your pocket. Why should I pay someone a bonus that didn't do a damn thing for me except put the country I live in into serious debt? You are so far off it's stupid if you think the tax payers paying multi-million dollar bonuses is part of the territory. I love how you think it's only their top 10 revenue producers that are getting paid. On top of that, I seriously doubt anyone produced a possitive number in any of the companies that are paying bonues with tax payer monies.

I work in the financial world in lower Manhattan. I've seen what these *******s have done and do. I ride the ****ing train with them every morning and every evening.

I said I have no problem with execs being capped if they asked for the money or are you too stupid to read that.

I work in the financial industry also and had my bonus torn to shreds in a way that I have to make a decision to keep cable TV or not.

And I also know many Wealth Management and hedge traders who made a killing this year as well as some hedge traders in CDS and and Equity shorts. Also some lucky few in the originations department made a ton of money taking the new preffered shares and glut of bonds to market.

If you want to get into the governments role in starting this and the fact that without FNMA and FRE (gov't agencies) buying up "unconventional mortgages" over the boom period, thus providing more liquidity to the banks to make more marginal loans, then we can - but I doubt this is the forum.

JPMorgan made money this year as did Wells Fargo. BofA likely would have made money except for the Merril deal. Ken Lewis went to the gov't in Nov to back out after they found how bad the assets were at Merril and the gov't wouldn't let him for fear of a worse crash than when Lehman went under.

So in those cases, the government is hamstringing the CEOs that did do a good job in the effort of greater good.

It isn't all the bankers, it isn't all the gov't and it isn't all the public. But the public is really getting bailed out in the short term because without liquidity, GM Ford and many other industries fall. Now the stimulus is making sure Mr. 30K/year undocumented income in a $400K home doesn't get evicted, but gets a reduction in principal.

The gov't bailout is >$1T. Let's say all the bonuses from Wall Street good and bad total $1B. Lets say ALL bonuses were paid from Bailout and none from revenue generation.

$1B/1T = 0.1%, the equivalent of giving someone $100 and they gave away a dime.

So you can focus on that if you want, but the remaining $999,000,000,000 is what has me concerned as to the inflation coming in a year from the influx of supply, the default rate of US treas going up (which means no more bailouts for us ever).

 

[dallascowboyfanboy]

Stop complaining and bring a freaking reusable bag. It really isn't that difficult now is it?

Dude. I pity you since you just don't understand. It doesn't matter if you bring a reusable bag. The possible tax will already be an addition to the sales tax we will be taxed regardless even if we put groceries in our pants pockets!

moving forward...

 

[TheDude]

Tax on grocery bags

God I remember why I don't live in NY. I thought NC was bad


I want to move back to Tennessee or Florida or Nevada

 

[TNCowboy]

That's a perfect solution.

Everyone knows that the most talented people with the best chance to turn ailing companies around will flock to places that can only pay them 1/10th of what they're making now.


:laugh2:

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's a perfect solution.

Everyone knows that the most talented people with the best chance to turn ailing companies around will flock to places that can only pay them 1/10th of what they're making now.


:laugh2:

Name one company being bailed out that has had an exec fired for it.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Name one company being bailed out that has had an exec fired for it.

Fired for what?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fired for what?

What difference does it make? The bottomline is that companies like Citicorp and FrddieMac are retaining their CEO's.

 

[TheHerd]

That's a perfect solution.

Everyone knows that the most talented people with the best chance to turn ailing companies around will flock to places that can only pay them 1/10th of what they're making now.


:laugh2:

Exactly. This is like punishing the Lions by telling them they can only pay their starting QB 1M next year. That'll get Matt Cassell over there.

Why would we be happy about this govt. managing companies? The great job they've been doing with their own budgets and programs for so long?

Socialism has worked well every it's ever been tried, so I think we should keep heading all the way down this path.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

shouldn't they cap the players also? Ticket prices are becoming insane. Hopefully businesses won't buy as much which will drive the prices down and if there are more and more empty seats around the NFL they will have to lower prices.

Don't go to the games! I live in Chicago and no longer travel to Dallas for the games because the economy blows and the dallas cowboys swallow. 've already cancelled my NFL Sunday Ticket subscription also. If it's not on free TV I'm not watching. And no more t-shirt, jersey or cap purchases. I've got enough cowboy gear to last through these hard economic times and many years ov continually mediocre rosters.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Exactly. This is like punishing the Lions by telling them they can only pay their starting QB 1M next year. That'll get Matt Cassell over there.

Why would we be happy about this govt. managing companies? The great job they've been doing with their own budgets and programs for so long?

Socialism has worked well every it's ever been tried, so I think we should keep heading all the way down this path.

No its not. It would be like handing them extra picks in each round for the next 3 years and telling them they cannot trade them for cash.

 

[AbeBeta]

Dude. I pity you since you just don't understand. It doesn't matter if you bring a reusable bag. The possible tax will already be an addition to the sales tax we will be taxed regardless even if we put groceries in our pants pockets!

moving forward...

Actually that isn't true. The tax is on every bag you USE at the register. If you shop at a store that charges you differently then you need to speak to the manager - the point is to keep bags out of landfills (which costs the city money). I've been in several cities with larger costs per bag -- cities whose plans the NYC one is based on - none charge people who bring their own bags

 

[fanfromvirginia]

You guys who reflexively scream 'socialism' on this are the ones who don't understand capitalism. Perversely, the problem with the CEOs and their pays is not that it's too capitalistic but that it's not capitalistic enough. The engine of capitalism is the entrepreneurial spirit. Entrepreneurs create economic progress via shouldering risk. By giving CEOs who fail enormous compensation, risk is effectively eliminated.

People like myself who argue for tieing CEO compensation to performance are restoring capitalism, not abandoning it. Ideally, the market would take care of this rather than the gov't but it hasn't quite worked out that way, has it?

 

[RCowboyFan]

You guys who reflexively scream 'socialism' on this are the ones who don't understand capitalism. Perversely, the problem with the CEOs and their pays is not that it's too capitalistic but that it's not capitalistic enough. The engine of capitalism is the entrepreneurial spirit. Entrepreneurs create economic progress via shouldering risk. By giving CEOs who fail enormous compensation, risk is effectively eliminated.

People like myself who argue for tieing CEO compensation to performance are restoring capitalism, not abandoning it. Ideally, the market would take care of this rather than the gov't but it hasn't quite worked out that way, has it?

Well, lets not facts get in the way. Just blame the CEO's for taking the money that clueless Politicians doled out. And that too at gunpoint to some Banks who didn't want the money.

Its amazing no matter how much Governments screw up economy, whenever they intervene, you got enough sheep buying the snake oil salesmen (Politicians). Whole problem in the first place is caused by them and then they inturn will blame the Capatilist/greedy Free Economy for the ills. Never fails.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Well, lets not facts get in the way. Just blame the CEO's for taking the money that clueless Politicians doled out. And that too at gunpoint to some Banks who didn't want the money.

Its amazing no matter how much Governments screw up economy, whenever they intervene, you got enough sheep buying the snake oil salesmen (Politicians). Whole problem in the first place is caused by them and then they inturn will blame the Capatilist/greedy Free Economy for the ills. Never fails.

Well, let's not ignore the facts that were presented because they're inconvenient to your dogma.

Gummint had absolutely nothing to do with the problem I'm discussing. Compensating CEOs for failure, which eliminated the entrepreneurial risk essential to the health of a capitalist economy, was a racket cooked up entirely by groups of individuals from within the private sector. Sure, it was allowed by the feds but that pushes into further uncomfortable territory for the logic of your argument -- if it was bad for the feds to ignore it then it would be good for them to regulate it.

The fact that the bailout was botched by politicians seems to me true on its face but immaterial to my argument.

 

[TNCowboy]

You guys who reflexively scream 'socialism' on this are the ones who don't understand capitalism. Perversely, the problem with the CEOs and their pays is not that it's too capitalistic but that it's not capitalistic enough. The engine of capitalism is the entrepreneurial spirit. Entrepreneurs create economic progress via shouldering risk. By giving CEOs who fail enormous compensation, risk is effectively eliminated.

People like myself who argue for tieing CEO compensation to performance are restoring capitalism, not abandoning it. Ideally, the market would take care of this rather than the gov't but it hasn't quite worked out that way, has it?

Yes, the government lending money to private business, then setting the pay scale for said business is Capitalism 101.

:laugh2:

 

[utrunner07]

A lot of CEOs of the wall street banks should be in jail. They were told no bonuses, but they gave them out anyhow under different names. Then they are going to collect TONS of tax payer money to payoff their debt from their greedy *** choices. So, basically a huge part of your tax dollars did nothing but pay bonuses to people who were so skilled they lost billions.

I think if they rode the subway with me, I would push them onto the tracks! :laugh2: (I'M KIDDING!) ...maybe!

I don't blame the CEOs nearly as much as I blame the pathetic politicians we have all elected that allowed this mess to happen to begin with and then continue on and on and on with this "bailout" farce.