FEATURED Things I liked, things I didn't like...Philly

[guag]

Things I didn't like:

• Philadelphia.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[ufcrules1]

I said seem to be polite. And no they don't know or they wouldn't talk about it as a negative constantly. You act as if Romo, Garrett and Callahan are stupid and just don't know any better; i.e. you're more knowledgeable than they are. And I might add more so than other teams who take their time snapping the ball to get as best a pre snap read as they can. I do agree you can play an up tempo on occasion and for awhile. I wish we did that more often esp when we have them reeling. You also are more likely to turn the ball over that way which is another reason not to do it all the time.

And if you want to argue that all that waiting until the defense declares causes false starts I'm with you on that. That's the price you pay for not just hiking the ball. It's a trade off and the only people who really know if its the best thing for the team are the people I mentioned. Romo has to be comfortable and obviously he wants to do that as he does it nearly every frackin' play. That's got to mean something to some.

You act as if Romo, Garrett and Callahan are stupid and just don't know any better

lol, that is very debatable.

I do agree you can play an up tempo on occasion and for awhile. I wish we did that more often esp when we have them reeling. You also are more likely to turn the ball over that way which is another reason not to do it all the time.

I never mentioned playing uptempo, I was just suggesting to vary the snaps more often so the defense doesn't get a jump on your Oline... similar to what we did in all the other games this year. With all that said, I have no issue with playing uptempo sometimes too. I see the Pats, Bronco's, and other teams have success with it.

And if you want to argue that all that waiting until the defense declares causes false starts I'm with you on that. That's the price you pay for not just hiking the ball.

Are we actually agreeing on something?

Romo has to be comfortable and obviously he wants to do that as he does it nearly every frackin' play. That's got to mean something to some.

He was comfortable with it last year and it didn't work out for our team and we had a ton of penalties because of it. So far this year he hasn't done it repeatedly like that until the Philly game.. and the penalties came right back and our offense looked sloppy in my opinion.

 

[jobberone]

1) You did not post the rule, you posted a digest of the rules.

2) The blurb I posted is exactly what I have been saying. You stated that the defense was given time to sub, but that is not correct. The defense can sub at anytime (and risk two many men on the field if the offense doesn't sub and snaps), but they are only given time to sub if the offense subs.

3) I have not read the rule book, but in watching the game of football quite a while, you can infer the rules by the actions of the refs. If the offense subs, then the defense is given time to sub as well. That is why the ref stands over the ball and doesn't allow the offense to snap when the offense has subbed, and the defense is still subbing. So your statement above "There is no rule which states the defense gets x time to sub only if the offense subs." is incorrect, which is what I have been arguing, and only what I have been arguing.

Anyway, I am now done with this argument, as there is no argument. You don't seem to know the rules. I was trying to help clarify against your earlier point of "The problem with keeping the same defense on the field is that the officials won't allow you to snap the ball until they are ready and the D has had some time to sub. ." which is false. The defense is only given time by the refs to sub IF the offense has subbed. Otherwise, the defense risks playing out of position, or getting a flag for too many men on the field if they attempt to sub when the offense has not.

BBQ

That's the rule not an abbreviated one. I also posted the link for the post and it has a link to the rules. I'm trying to look at the officials responsibilities etc to see if there is any more information. I've only looked at some of it which hasn't added anything to the conversation so far. Their responsibilities are outlined in the rules but if they are like HS or College football they have their own publications for how to line up yada and explanations etc for every rule and situation. You're posting a blurb from the media which certainly is not the rule book.

No the blurb is not saying they will give time to the defense to sub only if the offense subs. I don't give a crap about the blurb anyway. If you can't show me that in the rule book or a directive from the league office then you're blowing smoke. Who cares what the media says when you have a rule book? Now if you have a link to an explanation about this from the league or officials which supports your position then I'll be happy to look at that. There is nothing not factual with the statement you bolded except for the end of the halves and even then they will stand over the ball for a period of time. I wasn't quoting a rule there but making a general statement. You keep going back to that when the overall point is you were wrong stating there is a rule which give time for the defense to sub only if the offense subs.

There is no response adequate for 3 in the face of my giving you the rule and the links to it.

You grow dull now and I'm not interested in repeating myself or trying to get you to understand the rules in plain English. I'm certainly not interested in your spin or deflections. You can have the last word.

 

[BBQ101]

That's the rule not an abbreviated one. I also posted the link for the post and it has a link to the rules. I'm trying to look at the officials responsibilities etc to see if there is any more information. I've only looked at some of it which hasn't added anything to the conversation so far. Their responsibilities are outlined in the rules but if they are like HS or College football they have their own publications for how to line up yada and explanations etc for every rule and situation. You're posting a blurb from the media which certainly is not the rule book.

No the blurb is not saying they will give time to the defense to sub only if the offense subs. I don't give a crap about the blurb anyway. If you can't show me that in the rule book or a directive from the league office then you're blowing smoke. Who cares what the media says when you have a rule book? Now if you have a link to an explanation about this from the league or officials which supports your position then I'll be happy to look at that. There is nothing not factual with the statement you bolded except for the end of the halves and even then they will stand over the ball for a period of time. I wasn't quoting a rule there but making a general statement. You keep going back to that when the overall point is you were wrong stating there is a rule which give time for the defense to sub only if the offense subs.

There is no response adequate for 3 in the face of my giving you the rule and the links to it.

You grow dull now and I'm not interested in repeating myself or trying to get you to understand the rules in plain English. I'm certainly not interested in your spin or deflections. You can have the last word.

Ok, I will try one more time, because again you are just plain wrong. Again my only argument was against your statement of: "The problem with keeping the same defense on the field is that the officials won't allow you to snap the ball until they are ready and the D has had some time to sub. ." which is wrong.

That's the rule not an abbreviated one. I also posted the link for the post and it has a link to the rules.

FALSE - That is an abbreviation, or Digest of the rules just as I stated. The rulebook can be found here: http://www.nfl.com/rulebook with links to the various portions of said rulebook

I don't give a crap about the blurb anyway. If you can't show me that in the rule book or a directive from the league office then you're blowing smoke.

I do not blow smoke. Direct link to the pdf portion of the rules that explains substitusions: http://static.nfl.com/static/conten...fs/8_2012_Players_Subs_Equip_GeneralRules.pdf

In the pdf, refer to Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10 which states:

"If a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has​

been permitted to respond with its substitutions. While in the process of a substitution (or simulated substitution), the
offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a
defensive foul (i.e., too many men on the field). If, in the judgment of the officials, this occurs, the following procedure will
apply:
(a) The Umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete
its substitutions.
(b) If a play takes place and a defensive foul for too many players on the field results, no penalties will be enforced,
except for personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct, and the down will be replayed. At this time, the Referee will
notify the head coach that any further use of this tactic will result in a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct."

So there is the rule which directly contradicts your earlier statement which I originally bolded. Seems pretty damn close to the blurb I posted as well.

You grow dull now and I'm not interested in repeating myself or trying to get you to understand the rules in plain English. I'm certainly not interested in your spin or deflections. You can have the last word.

I am the one that has been talking in plain English. Sorry you consider me dull. I was simply trying to help you understand the rules. I find it funny that you state I don't understand the rules, when you are obviously the one with that issue. There have been no spin or deflections on my part. This whole conversation from my part has been me trying to correct a statement you made earlier.


BBQ

 

[jobberone]

The rule states the offense can't snap the ball if it makes a substitution until the defense has been permitted to substitute. Now how in the heck is that the same as saying the defense can't make a substitution with reasonable time permitting unless the offense substitutes. Yes, my quote is from a digest of the rules but it says the same thing as the rule as far as our 'debate' goes and reiterates what I originally said.

Offense can't snap ball after subbing until defense has opportunity does not equal defense doesn't get time to sub unless offense subs.

In practicality no one gets to control the tempo as I've said.

Here's the gist of my argument:

'As Kelly mans his first full week of NFL training camp, installing a high-revving Ferrari engine into the Eagles' offense, league insiders say there are exactly zero indications NFL referees will be willing participants in the Kelly era. The NFL, they say, has a long-standing pace at which they do things between plays and the referees "aren't going to change just to accommodate someone's offense," said Mike Pereira, a former NFL vice president of officiating who is now an analyst for Fox Sports.

"We have to make sure teams understand that they don't control the tempo, our officials do," said NFL vice president of officiating Dean Blandino. "We're going through our normal ball mechanics; we aren't going to rush [unless] it's in the two minute drill."

Blandino said he has talked to every NFL team coaching staff during the off-season to emphasize that there is no forcing the issue—the offense won't be able to snap the ball until the referees signals they're ready.

Kelly declined to comment. An Eagles spokesman also declined to comment.

Blandino said the subject of up-tempo offenses and how they're officiated was a major point of discussion by the NFL's competition committee in recent months. Last season, after what Blandino said was a record for total plays from scrimmage per game, he said the committee felt compelled to "re-emphasize" that NFL rules differ dramatically from college.

At a clinic for NFL officials this off-season, Pereira said he saw league executives taking the next step, drilling the message into the heads of its assembled referees: No matter what, we're going to run at the same pace.

This is from a piece in the WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324809004578636300350207808

Truly the end of the discussion on my part. I just wanted to make sure the rest of the crowd understands the rules.

 

[Phoenix]

I didn't see it mentioned, but I just thought of another thing I really liked about this game: Seeing Ware constantly coaching & mentoring on the sidelines all through the game.

 

[hutch1254]

I didn't see it mentioned, but I just thought of another thing I really liked about this game: Seeing Ware constantly coaching & mentoring on the sidelines all through the game.

Good call. I saw that as well.