This could ruin the game forever

[Chocolate Lab]

The game's in the process of being ruined right now. But the people looking to get their hands on the piles of money this sport generates couldn't care less about that.

 

[Direwolf63]

Sorry but no. You want proof? The proof that such a waiver can't exist is that it doesn't exist. If it could, every ticket you ever buy, every contract for car every car purchase, every sales receipt for every item you buy would include it. The law doesn't allow such blanket waivers for obvious public policy reasons.

Go to a baseball game and get hit with a foul ball, and the law says you assumed that risk. However, that risk is statistically minor and you have an enormous ability to minimize (or eliminate) it by your choice of seating.

Enter the NFL and despite whatever you're being paid, your employer can't subject you to unreasonable and preventable risks to your health. Hurt your knee in a single catastrophic hit -- that's part of the game (for now). Sustain even a couple years of direct hits to the head that better gear or monitoring could help mitigate -- well, that might not be part of the game anymore.

It's an interesting discussion.

If you buy a Ferrari, wrap it around a telephone pole and get a brain injury, are you going to sue Ferrari? The dealership? You knew the risks when you bought it. Yet you chose to buy it anyway. It was a personal choice. You didn't sign a waiver to buy it.

Ferraris (and all cars for that matter) have all kinds of air bags and such to protect passengers. So they have done their part. And they are continually working to improve safety. I say the NFL is in a similar position. You can't sue Ferrari, but you can sue the league? Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Doomsday101]

I say wrap the players in bubble wrap and cut the pay for the players and ticket price for the fans.

 

[Gadfly22]

It's an interesting discussion.

If you buy a Ferrari, wrap it around a telephone pole and get a brain injury, are you going to sue Ferrari? The dealership? You knew the risks when you bought it. Yet you chose to buy it anyway. It was a personal choice. You didn't sign a waiver to buy it.

Ferraris (and all cars for that matter) have all kinds of air bags and such to protect passengers. So they have done their part. And they are continually working to improve safety. I say the NFL is in a similar position. You can't sue Ferrari, but you can sue the league? Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not a lawyer.

Yes, you chose to buy the Ferrari and were in total control of it: your speed, where you drove, the conditions you drove in.

And NFL player is NOT in that kind of control. He plays when and where the league tells him, with the equipment he's given, on the surface and in the conditions he's told. It may even appear to the player that -- for the betterment of his career -- he should play hurt. So it's easy for a player to justify playing under conditions where the injury is cumulative and serious -- though it might not appear that way from any single blow to the head. In short, player "choice" is severely limited.

That's why it's up to the league -- which IS in control of when and where a player plays, the equipment he's given and the surface on which and under the conditions in which he'll play -- to take reasonable steps to minimize those cumulative and serious injuries.

 

[USMarineVet]

Then they need to develop a padding inside the helmet that absorbs shock better. With all the money they just laid out in the lawsuit, I'm sure they can put a small percentage of that into R & D to develop a safer helmet. Otherwise, exchange the football for a powder puff and make pink a mandatory color somewhere in the uniform.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yes, you chose to buy the Ferrari and were in total control of it: your speed, where you drove, the conditions you drove in.

And NFL player is NOT in that kind of control. He plays when and where the league tells him, with the equipment he's given, on the surface and in the conditions he's told. It may even appear to the player that -- for the betterment of his career -- he should play hurt. So it's easy for a player to justify playing under conditions where the injury is cumulative and serious -- though it might not appear that way from any single blow to the head. In short, player "choice" is severely limited.

That's why it's up to the league -- which IS in control of when and where a player plays, the equipment he's given and the surface on which and under the conditions in which he'll play -- to take reasonable steps to minimize those cumulative and serious injuries.

The league has not taken resonable actions to limit injuries? Where does player responsiblity come in or do they not have any responsiblity or choice?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

This new helmet and players law suites because of injuries has and will change the game. What is the NFL to do? if they do not try and address these injuries especially head injuries they will just continue to have law suites thrown at them.

Like others I like old fashion football, players should know and understand the risk they take when they sign these big contracts yet law suites continue

Why don't they just start writing liability clauses into player contracts? That would take care of lawsuits against the league, would it not?

I can't even understand why this hasn't been done already.

 

[Direwolf63]

Yes, you chose to buy the Ferrari and were in total control of it: your speed, where you drove, the conditions you drove in.

And NFL player is NOT in that kind of control. He plays when and where the league tells him, with the equipment he's given, on the surface and in the conditions he's told. It may even appear to the player that -- for the betterment of his career -- he should play hurt. So it's easy for a player to justify playing under conditions where the injury is cumulative and serious -- though it might not appear that way from any single blow to the head. In short, player "choice" is severely limited.

That's why it's up to the league -- which IS in control of when and where a player plays, the equipment he's given and the surface on which and under the conditions in which he'll play -- to take reasonable steps to minimize those cumulative and serious injuries.

Not only has the league taken reasonable steps for player safety, they have bent over backwards for player safety. I can understand the players of the 1960's, '70's, '80's, and '90's angry that the league didn't do enough to protect them and suing because of it. But I don't think the players of today can say the same thing.

 

[Gadfly22]

The league has not taken resonable actions to limit injuries? Where does player responsiblity come in or do they not have any responsiblity or choice?

If there is new technology available to provide real time alerts regarding player health issues in a reasonable way, then the league may well have that responsibility. New circumstances and new technologies change the figurative playing field, and the duties to safeguard player health in 2013 will be difference from those duties in 1973.

One valuable thing to learn about the law -- and life in general -- is that "personal responsibility" is largely a myth. Or at least a difficult conceptual construct. You chose to get up and leave the house this morning. And you got hit in the head with a baseball bat. You knew that baseball bats exist. And you knew that people get hit in the head with them every day. Yet you still chose to get up and leave the safety of your house. Your choice, your responsibility?

 

[coult44]

Imagine this.

The Cowboys are driving for a score, and Demarco Murray busts off the left side for a big gain at the Giants 45-yard-line. There's only 17 seconds left in the half with no time outs, and Romo hurries them up to the line.

But.....the whistle blows, and action is stopped. Dez Bryant is told to leave the field.

His helmet sensors have signaled to the doctors that he got an impact reading on his last block for Murray that registered too high to play the next play. He must leave the field for further evaluation, and he may be done for the game based on league rules for maximum impact.

Yes, the NFL is working on helmet sensors for this very reason.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/04/nfl-moving-closer-to-using-helmet-sensors/

This would probably be the last nail in the coffin for me and the NFL.

I've been saying this for two years now. Our kids and grand kids will not know the football that we know and love today. Call me crazy and question my sanity, but it's true. Roger and these owners have been forced to take drastic meseaures because of the old player concussion lawsuits. I read yesterday there will be a new lawsuit filed on behalf of players who have crippling leg and back problems now. These guys are upset that they played the same game, in the real way, and didn't make the money these guys today make playing a watered down game. Troy Aikman could've played for 7 more years with the QB rules they have today, but has personally said he would do it all again because he KNEW the risk he was taking. If theses guys do not know the risk they are taking to make these millions of dollars, then they aren't smart enough to play anyways. How many thousands of lives have been changed because of the money someone in their family makes playing the game of football. The violent game, the brutal game, the angry game, the game that most of America Loves, FOOTBALL is going to change in such a way that it will no longer be fun to watch. The only way this will change is for someone with hundreds of millions of dollars to begin a league and let the players choose where they want to play. In the NFL. Where the QB will become non-touchable and ruled down by a touch or wrap up.,WR's will be allowed to take 1 or 2 steps with the ball before he gets hit, and where RB's will only be allowed to be tackled between the belt and the numbers. Or the new league, where it's basically the rules from 10-15 years ago, where the guys who have worked since they were 5 years old to be the biggest, fastest, most athletic, supreme athletes take to the field to play the game AMERICA LOVES!!!!! A game where everyone knows the risks, but understand the rewards. I have no problem with player safety, but this is going so far overboard that it's destroying the game. From not being able to celebrate with your team when you score a touchdown, to not being able to make this weeks version of "JACKED UP". The NFL is going so far even to be saying that they are going to take out one of the most exciting plays in football, the kickoff return will be gone in two years. No longer will a big return help a team make a comeback, no longer will a game changing hit turn the momentum of a game, and no longer will a huge QB SACK be the play that won the game. VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY SAD!!!!! And it's coming....

 

[tantrix1969]

Yes, you chose to buy the Ferrari and were in total control of it: your speed, where you drove, the conditions you drove in.

And NFL player is NOT in that kind of control. He plays when and where the league tells him, with the equipment he's given, on the surface and in the conditions he's told. It may even appear to the player that -- for the betterment of his career -- he should play hurt. So it's easy for a player to justify playing under conditions where the injury is cumulative and serious -- though it might not appear that way from any single blow to the head. In short, player "choice" is severely limited.

That's why it's up to the league -- which IS in control of when and where a player plays, the equipment he's given and the surface on which and under the conditions in which he'll play -- to take reasonable steps to minimize those cumulative and serious injuries.

smh so the players are mindless madden robots who do whatever there told??They absolutely chose to play this is there choice they can always retire from the NFL or not play in it at all

 

[Direwolf63]

If there is new technology available to provide real time alerts regarding player health issues in a reasonable way, then the league may well have that responsibility. New circumstances and new technologies change the figurative playing field, and the duties to safeguard player health in 2013 will be difference from those duties in 1973.

One valuable thing to learn about the law -- and life in general -- is that "personal responsibility" is largely a myth. Or at least a difficult conceptual construct. You chose to get up and leave the house this morning. And you got hit in the head with a baseball bat. You knew that baseball bats exist. And you knew that people get hit in the head with them every day. Yet you still chose to get up and leave the safety of your house. Your choice, your responsibility?

As a Canadian, I'm starting to understand why the U.S. is such a litigious society. Since personal responsibility is a "myth", anybody can sue anybody else for pretty much anything. Doesn't make for a better society, IMO. Just makes the lawyers rich.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

As a Canadian, I'm starting to understand why the U.S. is such a litigious society. Since personal responsibility is a "myth", anybody can sue anybody else for pretty much anything. Doesn't make for a better society, IMO. Just makes the lawyers rich.

As a Canadian, I suggest you put more time into the study of American Society before you come to such a broad conclusion.

If you do this, I suspect it might serve you well.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

It's easy for the NFL Couch Division to claim that players are assuming the risk in exchange for their big contracts. But the fact is that most NFL players don't get huge contracts nor do their careers last very long. And often they come out of the NFL with no college degree, no useful work experience and overall poor prospects. That's fine if they get continuing medical care for football-related injuries -- except if you're talking about significant brain damage that impairs thinking, changes personalities, causes mood swings and generally makes post-NFL life a misery for the ex-player and his family.

Because that's the world where lawyers will ask: What did the NFL do to minimize those kinds of cumulative injuries? Has the game simply become too dangerous to play under current rules? And those kinds of questions can end up costing owners lots and lots of money. So I think the game is inevitably headed -- and correctly -- in the direction of taking all medical and technological steps to minimize injuries. And the enormous lawsuits payouts that might ensue.

I enjoy watching football, but if I'm inconvenienced for a couple minutes or -- worst case -- a game is lost in order to safeguard a person's brain from catastrophic injury, I think I can somehow struggle through and bear that burden.

If they don't have their degree that's their own fault. They have been handed a chance to get one and they blew that chance. That is no ones fault but their own and I don't feel sorry for those who don't get their degree taken care of. They need to take some responsibility for their lack of responsibility in themselves.

And no one is making them play the NFL or try to play in the NFL. They agree to do that because they want to do that and they make something like 400k just being on a team. That's a pretty good amount of money even if they only get to play for a year or two.

People who are underpaid for the jobs they do and how dangerous they are are military men and women, cops, firefighters, etc. Those are people who have legitimate gripes about the risks and the pay that goes with it. The people who get payed to play professional football are not in that catagory and I don't really feel sorry for them in the least.

 

[Gadfly22]

As a Canadian, I'm starting to understand why the U.S. is such a litigious society. Since personal responsibility is a "myth", anybody can sue anybody else for pretty much anything. Doesn't make for a better society, IMO. Just makes the lawyers rich.

I was just illustrating the distance between choosing to play in the NFL and any particular injury that results from that choice. A player chooses to sign an NFL contract on the presumption that he will not be subjected to unreasonable risk of injury. He doesn't "choose" to accept any and all injuries. When medical science starts suggesting that a routine part of the present game causes severe injuries over time -- with players as big and fast as they are playing on artificial surfaces with hard helmets and other gear -- the "reasonableness" equation changes. Which may involve changes to the game.

And note that better equipment may not be the answer. A boxer's padded gloves allow him to hit with a protected weight on a hard-wrapped fist. The force that such protection allows is more dangerous than the force that an unprotected hand can generate without injury to that hand. So the answer may have to be smarter equipment -- like monitoring helmets that at least might provide an alert to minimize cumulative injury.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

This new helmet and players law suites because of injuries has and will change the game. What is the NFL to do? if they do not try and address these injuries especially head injuries they will just continue to have law suites thrown at them.

Like others I like old fashion football, players should know and understand the risk they take when they sign these big contracts yet law suites continue

yet the problem is that it is the old fashioned football guys who are suing

I don't like these extra safety measures but given the league now knows about concussion issues, if it does not take more steps, it will really gets burned, even though I agree with you that there is a voluntary assumption of risk by players.

 

[Tabascocat]

How is this any different than the people who serve and protect? (includes police, fireman, military, etc). Everyone knows the risks when they make that decision to enter the particular field. About 95% of those make a fraction of what an NFL player makes and their jobs are more dangerous.

Common sense, if the individual does not want to take the risk of playing football, then find a different job. It is not and never has been a secret that playing ball is dangerous. If someone wants to take those risks for fame and fortune, then they have every right to do so but blaming the NFL after the fact is a bit much.

The NFL does implement rule changes and equipment updates to lessen injuries but it will never, ever be close to remotely safe. It is a violent sport, always has been.

Unfortunately, due to today's society where everyone wants to sue someone, the game will be reduced to a glorified flag football game within 20 years IMO.

This game can not withstand the never-ending hands reaching in and trying to get a piece of the pie.

 

[Cowboys22]

Sorry but no. You want proof? The proof that such a waiver can't exist is that it doesn't exist. If it could, every ticket you ever buy, every contract for car every car purchase, every sales receipt for every item you buy would include it. The law doesn't allow such blanket waivers for obvious public policy reasons.

Go to a baseball game and get hit with a foul ball, and the law says you assumed that risk. However, that risk is statistically minor and you have an enormous ability to minimize (or eliminate) it by your choice of seating.

Enter the NFL and despite whatever you're being paid, your employer can't subject you to unreasonable and preventable risks to your health. Hurt your knee in a single catastrophic hit -- that's part of the game (for now). Sustain even a couple years of direct hits to the head that better gear or monitoring could help mitigate -- well, that might not be part of the game anymore.

I don't believe a word of this. There are waivers against personal injury all over the place in this country. Businesses make the consumer assume 100% of the risk all the time. I don't see any reason the NFL can't do the same to the players. Make the team provide the players with the very best equipment, have doctors at practices and games, provide good insurance against injury, and put rules in place designed to limit injuries. After that, you assume all risks for playing in the league including both short term and long term injury. I still see nothing stopping the league from doing it other than the negative press that would ensue and the drop in participation amoung youths who's parents will no longer let them play.

 

[Gadfly22]

How is this any different than the people who serve and protect? (includes police, fireman, military, etc). Everyone knows the risks when they make that decision to enter the particular field. About 95% of those make a fraction of what an NFL player makes and their jobs are more dangerous.

Common sense, if the individual does not want to take the risk of playing football, then find a different job. It is not and never has been a secret that playing ball is dangerous. If someone wants to take those risks for fame and fortune, then they have every right to do so but blaming the NFL after the fact is a bit much.

The NFL does implement rule changes and equipment updates to lessen injuries but it will never, ever be close to remotely safe. It is a violent sport, always has been.

Unfortunately, due to today's society where everyone wants to sue someone, the game will be reduced to a glorified flag football game within 20 years IMO.

This game can not withstand the never-ending hands reaching in and trying to get a piece of the pie.

I suggest that you do a simple Google search on "police officer sues injuries". You'll find page after page of references to lawsuits -- some exceedingly silly sounding -- in which police officers sue for injuries sustained on the job. Yet they "chose" their profession. Don't they get to sue? The fact is, they didn't "choose" to get hurt in any particular circumstance on any particular day. In fact. most police go about their days with minimal statistical risk of injury.

Not so the NFL player, who could sustain a serious injury on any given play, and may be involved in dozens of such potentially dangerous plays on any given day.

 

[Gadfly22]

I don't believe a word of this. There are waivers against personal injury all over the place in this country. Businesses make the consumer assume 100% of the risk all the time. I don't see any reason the NFL can't do the same to the players. Make the team provide the players with the very best equipment, have doctors at practices and games, provide good insurance against injury, and put rules in place designed to limit injuries. After that, you assume all risks for playing in the league including both short term and long term injury. I still see nothing stopping the league from doing it other than the negative press that would ensue and the drop in participation amoung youths who's parents will no longer let them play.

You're simply wrong. Businesses may try to shift 100% of the risk to consumers with prominent warnings or fine print on tickets or receipts. But the law doesn't allow it to the extent you think. That's just the state of the law in the US and most developed countries. Public safety trumps that kind of risk shifting. Not to mention the whole body of law regarding "contracts of adhesion".