This is what happens when you don't build your team from the trenches out

[Nova]

The previous regime's drafting failures in 08 and 09.What are you talking about,it's the same regime.You keep on believing that if it makes you feel better about things.

Yes, Jerry is still the final decision maker, but there's a lot of turnover with the scouting department that accompanies coaching changes. You hear Broaddus talking about this all the time (how Parcells let him an many others go because they weren't trained to find the guys that Parcells needed).


This is really evident in the fact that there are 'Parcells guys', 'Wade guys' and now 'RKGs'. There's a reason we've brought in more talent than we've lost the last 3 years.

 

[Nova]

Does history repeat itself. The answer is YES, have the Cowboys learned from the past, NO. OK, now if you have looked over the past 5 years have we improved or been competitive at the end of the season, I will let the record speck for itself. Now to the positives, has the owner sold sits in (AT&T) stadium, YES, has he sold jerseys, YES, has he pulled the wool over the fans eyes, YES. Are there still fans who think that whiffing on the trenches but getting coaches and specialty players will win championships. What do you think?

I had a little trouble following your post, but I'll answer the last part.

Are we really whiffing on the trenches lately? I know it's hard to see, and even I remain skeptical. But if you look at what successful teams did before they made deep playoff runs or won championships, you'll recognize it all started with drafting well the previous 3-4 seasons before the breakout year.

Saints in '09 are probably a prime example. (who, btw, were also aided by a coach who could place them in the proper scheme with Gregg Williams).

The Cowboys seem to be in those 3-4 seasons of building the right team. I just don't think there's use in complaining about moves they didn't make in the distant past, and appreciate the recent moves where the direction that we're headed. Am I guaranteeing success? Hardly. But I'm not going to sit and sulk about what Wade Phillips and Bill Parcells failed to established.

 

[OhSnap]

..when you don't build your team from the trenches out. One or two injuries to starters and you end up with positions of weakness instead of strength. Both the offensive and defensive lines will have rookies, free agents and cast offs playing on opening day. I still think we can win with this lineup, but one or two more injuries and it'll be over. Just watch the pass plays when Romo goes back and has to do some magic becaue the play broke down because of pressure. Just watch the DL not get pressure on the opposing QB who sits back there with seemingly all day to make a play. There's only 1 person to blame for this predicament but unfortunately he'll never take the blame for it.

Most offensive lines are built from FA's and cast offs.Do some research or just look at the Cowboy lines of the 90's and wait a few weeks before you declare the team in an official predicament.

 

[superpunk]

Right.

The starting DL was supposed to be Spencer, Ratliff, Hatcher, and Ware.

By my count, that is 2 1st rounders, a 3rd rounder, and a 7th rounder.
Then, they had an injured 3rd round backup. Another 4th round backup. An UDFA in Bass, and then another 7th rounder in Lissemore. Then, a FA in Hayden.

By comparison, the cornerbacks have come from a 1st round pick (with a trade up), a FA, a 5th round pick, a 4th round pick, and a FA.

stop the fight

 

[jterrell]

NO team builds from the trenches out.
The one that tried the hardest has been the Browns and we have seen how well that works.

Teams build around a QB.
Then teams vary in philosophy but generally go DE, CB, LT all pretty quickly.

OL/DL play is important but it only matters if you have the other pieces in place.

Just last year Dallas absolutely destroyed the Giants week 1 because the Giants had no secondary.
This was a top 10 Giants OL versus a bottom 10 Cowboys OL. Didn't matter on iota. Because the Giants secondary couldn't stop 3 step drops.

 

[jterrell]

Jerry was forced to go first round due to the lack of higher picks and just as importantly GOOD picks over the lat 10 years.

for those saying we have done enough- show me another team that has only developed as of last year 2 starters in 8 years from draft choices. Gurode and Free were the only home grown O line starters we got from 2002 through 2010. Then came Smith. Has any other team done worse developing draft choices?

this post makes about zero sense as worded.
we have developed many more than 2 starters from 2002 to 2010.

so perhaps you mean OL specific?
If so then the draft misses were on Bill Parcells and a prior personnel staff (left in place by BP). That was 2003-2006 and we drafted a solid number of OL, they just sucked.
Didn't help that Al Johnson who was penciled in as a walk in starter had to have microfracture surgery as a rookie.
Tho he did start games for the Cards after we didnt resign him.

But even more who is talking about 2002-2010? Why this weird stretch of years beyond that it fits some childish argument?
It is 2013. We have added 2 starting OL in 3 drafts. Is that bad? Is that below the norm?

What in the heck point are you trying to make?

Dallas drafted an average of about 1 OL a year. Those guys generally failed ot work here for various reasons... not the least of which is we were at one point LOADED along the OL and had 3 Pro Bowl OL in 2007 with Bigg Davis, Gruode and Flozell.

But again that is all ancient history at this point. Dallas has invested heavily along both lines. Both in dollars and in draft picks.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

This is a new, original, refreshing point of view. It has a good beat and I can dance to it...I give it a ten. I also am glad it got it's own thread instead of it staying in an existing thread as that was not going to garner the same amount of attention for a Call Out.


So I see what you are doing and I say, you go girl...
http://i18.***BLOCKED***/albums/b133/BrAinPaiNt/DropIt.gif

Ah think you hit the general nature of the fanbase with your response.
Ah think it is called whistling past the graveyard..

there is a lot in the OP. With Ratliff and Spencer out for a while and Hatcher doing his jouneyman thing on the D line, we have this guy off the street playing on the line for now. Can't remember his name. but then again, a lot of this team is made up of no-names.
But jerra is on the ball, making genius moves and congratulating players like Ratliff as "competitors" while he rehabs on his own (Jerra, seems like you are scared by the Rat, big time) and of course, we half up and coming players like Cole Beasley on the offense who has the potential to make the HOF and ROH. (Rolling my eyes.)
It never stops. Overpaid skill positions with no-names to do the backup.
But keep whistling past the graveyard, it takes the edge off the many questions confronting this team.

 

[xwalker]

..when you don't build your team from the trenches out. One or two injuries to starters and you end up with positions of weakness instead of strength. Both the offensive and defensive lines will have rookies, free agents and cast offs playing on opening day. I still think we can win with this lineup, but one or two more injuries and it'll be over. Just watch the pass plays when Romo goes back and has to do some magic becaue the play broke down because of pressure. Just watch the DL not get pressure on the opposing QB who sits back there with seemingly all day to make a play. There's only 1 person to blame for this predicament but unfortunately he'll never take the blame for it.

If the Cowboys have 2 injuries at CB, they're going to have the rookie Webb playing in Nickel situations. If they have 2 injuries to WRs they're going to have a midget UDFA playing. If they have 2 injuries to TEs, they're going to have a cast-off starting that was replaced on his previous team by John (can't block) Phillips.

If you have 2 injures at any position, then you're going to have problems.

The Cowboys biggest problem is at Guard. At worse case, they can just overpay to get Waters or even the "retired" Brandon Moore. They could not do that at a position like QB, CB, etc..

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Ah think you hit the general nature of the fanbase with your response.
Ah think it is called whistling past the graveyard..

there is a lot in the OP. With Ratliff and Spencer out for a while and Hatcher doing his jouneyman thing on the D line, we have this guy off the street playing on the line for now. Can't remember his name. but then again, a lot of this team is made up of no-names.
But jerra is on the ball, making genius moves and congratulating players like Ratliff as "competitors" while he rehabs on his own (Jerra, seems like you are scared by the Rat, big time) and of course, we half up and coming players like Cole Beasley on the offense who has the potential to make the HOF and ROH. (Rolling my eyes.)
It never stops. Overpaid skill positions with no-names to do the backup.
But keep whistling past the graveyard, it takes the edge off the many questions confronting this team.

That is SHS...SUPER HOT SEXY.

Woot

Twerk

 

[jterrell]

If the Cowboys have 2 injuries at CB, they're going to have the rookie Webb playing in Nickel situations. If they have 2 injuries to WRs they're going to have a midget UDFA playing. If they have 2 injuries to TEs, they're going to have a cast-off starting that was replaced on his previous team by John (can't block) Phillips.

If you have 2 injures at any position, then you're probably going to have problems.


The Cowboys biggest problem is at Guard. At worse case, they can just overpay to get Waters or even the "retired" Brandon Moore. They could not do that at a position like QB, CB, etc..

Sensible people understand this.
If the Cowboys have two injuries at QB they will be starting Alex Tanney.

This is the NFL. Teams seldom have great depth. Dallas actually had good depth on the DL before all the issues.
They didn't on the OL but Livings, Leary, Bern, Parnell all being injured didn't help much. Unless my math is poor that is more than 2 guys there.

End of the day this boils down to whining.
The fans are spoiled children who think it is a god-given right to win a title every few years.
They aren't Cowboys fans but fans of winning titles. And by God they didn't sign up for 8-8 seasons while we rebuild.

 

[onlyonenow]

Sensible people understand this.
If the Cowboys have two injuries at QB they will be starting Alex Tanney.

This is the NFL. Teams seldom have great depth. Dallas actually had good depth on the DL before all the issues.
They didn't on the OL but Livings, Leary, Bern, Parnell all being injured didn't help much. Unless my math is poor that is more than 2 guys there.

End of the day this boils down to whining.
The fans are spoiled children who think it is a god-given right to win a title every few years.
They aren't Cowboys fans but fans of winning titles. And by God they didn't sign up for 8-8 seasons while we rebuild.

I think waiting 18 years and counting is too long. If that is fine with you so be it. Wonder where you get this bit about every few years?

 

[coult44]

That last sentence is the second most ridiculous statement you've made that I have seen.

I'll make it quite simple for you. Since your great at remembering things:Here are Jay Ratliffs Career Stats
Tackles Interceptions
Year Team G Comb Total Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int TDs Yds Avg Lng
2012 Dallas Cowboys 6 16 10 6 0.0 -- 1 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2011 Dallas Cowboys 16 38 29 9 2.0 -- 3 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2010 Dallas Cowboys 16 31 23 8 3.5 -- 2 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2009 Dallas Cowboys 16 40 29 11 6.0 -- 0 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2008 Dallas Cowboys 16 51 33 18 7.5 -- 5 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2007 Dallas Cowboys 15 30 21 9 3.0 -- 4 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2006 Dallas Cowboys 15 18 11 7 4.0 -- 1 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2005 Dallas Cowboys 4 4 2 2 1.0 -- 0 -- -- -- 0.0 --
TOTAL 104 228 158 70 27.0 0 16 0 0 0 -- 0

It's even worse than I thought after I pulled the numbers. I thought for sure he would have had more tackles than this. Did you notice what Sean Lee said after he signed his new deal. This is great for him and the Cowboys. If he get's injured and can't play because of it than it's a great deal for the Cowboys. If he stays on the field a lot and hit's some of these bonuses, than it's great for him..Either way it's good for the Cowboys, but better if Lee does great and stays on the field. If Rat was given then contract, he wouldn't of made 1 million after he signed his new deal. It put the team in a horrible position, but was good for him either way.

Now, if that's the most ridiculous thing you've ever read, so be it. The truth speaks volumes sometimes...

 

[fortdick]

Cowboys have neglected the lines for several years now. Especially the offensive line. Everyone knows it.

Why are you trolling?

 

[fortdick]

Nice contribution. Quit complaining and go away then if it's a terrible thread.

Did you actually say this to Superpunk? He was posting here while you were still amazed by fart bubbles in the tub!

 

[Rockport]

If the Cowboys have 2 injuries at CB, they're going to have the rookie Webb playing in Nickel situations. If they have 2 injuries to WRs they're going to have a midget UDFA playing. If they have 2 injuries to TEs, they're going to have a cast-off starting that was replaced on his previous team by John (can't block) Phillips.

If you have 2 injures at any position, then you're going to have problems.

The Cowboys biggest problem is at Guard. At worse case, they can just overpay to get Waters or even the "retired" Brandon Moore. They could not do that at a position like QB, CB, etc..

Yes, true but when you have 2 injuries on an offensive line that is already suspect then that's where you are in real trouble.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

That is SHS...SUPER HOT SEXY.

Woot

Twerk

I know. Your mind is still reeling from the VMA awards. I was whistling at Miley and you . . . you just kept eyeballing Robin Thicke. Listen you go your way, I go mine.
That is the last time we go to the VMA awards. Your getup was a bit tacky. I mean the sequins and such. Why can't you dress like a normal backwoods personage?

 

[ware1manarmy]

Green Bay and Pitt both have terrible offensive lines.

this. using these teams were pretty bad examples to argue your case

 

[TwoCentPlain]

So, what does happen when you build from the trenches out? Guaranteed playoffs? A superbowl?And what exactly qualifies as building from the trenches out? A DL and OL in the 1st and 2nd rd every year? Every other year? Or is it go trenches in the 1st, 3rd and 4th rds of the draft plus 2 FA trench players? What is the recipe for this 'secret sauce?'

Should we have passed on Dez and taken some trench player in the draft? Should we have passed on Lee and Carter to take trench players? Or are LBs considered trench players?

 

[Rockport]

Most offensive lines are built from FA's and cast offs.Do some research or just look at the Cowboy lines of the 90's and wait a few weeks before you declare the team in an official predicament.

I still think they can win despite the uncertainties on the offensive line.

 

[Derinyar]

Yes, true but when you have 2 injuries on an offensive line that is already suspect then that's where you are in real trouble.

When you have two injuries to any general area of the team you have trouble.

WR - Austin and Bryant injured means that your starters are now Harris and Williams.
TE - Witten and Escobar means that you are now starting Hannah and have Rosario as your primary backup
CB - Mo and Carr get injured and you're looking at Oscar the Grouch and BW Webb or Moore as your primary CBs
OT - Free and Smith go down and that means Parnell and Weems are starters

LB might be the one place that we can somewhat survive 2 LB, but our talent level would still significantly drop. In this NFL you don't have 7 starting caliber players on the OLine. No team does, unless they get lucky in the late rounds of the draft.