Thornton and postdraft lockeroom dynamics

[tskyler]

I'm enjoying speculating about locker room dynamics for the next few years. One thing that popped out at me when I was pondering the position groups after the draft is how much I like the Thornton free agency move. Its a milestone in Jason's RKG makeover.

If you look at each of our position groups, we now have at least one vocal leader. We have Dez at Receiver. Sean Lee at linebacker. Written at TE. Free and Fredbeard at OL. Scadrick at CB. Byron and Church at Safety. Romo at QB.

Last year, Tyrone Crawford was the closest we had to a high football character guy but he's not an emotional leader. (Golden Cock seems similar to me) Mincey may have been doing this in 2014, but I think his holdout and Hardy's arrival might have torpedoed this. If we had someone like Thornton that could hold the rookies accountable, things might have gone better.

But, that's not really my main point. I'm excited to see whether Garret's goal of RKG's finally starts paying of when each position group has a core of RKG's. I really don't know whether it will. But I think we will get some answers. Will vocal leaders make it harder to poison the culture with a risky acquisition? Will we see the culture spread to former misfits? Does this create a culture strong enough that it continues for years with or without drafting tons of team captains every year? I'm definitely going to be watching future losses of RKG's that weaken a position groups character. I have no answers but I'm really curious to see what happens

 

[DFWJC]

I think we can agree that Garrett was
For Frederick
against Manziel
for Martin
Against Hardy but acquiesced
Against Gregory
For Byron Jones

 

[Pandora]

I think we can agree that Garrett was
For Frederick
against Manziel
for Martin
Against Hardy but acquiesced
Against Gregory
For Byron Jones

I don't think we can agree on that at all. Garrett is responsible for the "good" guys, but not for the "bad" guys?

Seriously, if Garrett was against all these personnel decisions - which I seriously doubt - and couldn't assert himself on any of them, then he is one weak-*** leader and should be fired immediately.

 

[DFWJC]

I don't think we can agree on that at all. Garrett is responsible for the "good" guys, but not for the "bad" guys?

Seriously, if Garrett was against all these personnel decisions - which I seriously doubt - and couldn't assert himself on any of them, then he is one weak-*** leader and should be fired immediately.

By "against" I mean he had to be talked into Gregory and Hardy. If you think he gets full say without debate on all personnel decisions....forget it, I know you can't think that.
Only the few HC/GMs have that total control.

I'll put it in simpler terms....
Which of Manziel, Gregory or Hardy do you think Garrett was pounding the table for?
To me, he clearly was against Manziel and Gregory. I always got the impression he got talked into Hardy.

 

[coach steele]

I don't think we can agree on that at all. Garrett is responsible for the "good" guys, but not for the "bad" guys?

Seriously, if Garrett was against all these personnel decisions - which I seriously doubt - and couldn't assert himself on any of them, then he is one weak-*** leader and should be fired immediately.

In any case, he is the main reason that Hardy is not coming back. I think this last draft reflects what Jason wants, whereas the other players are risks that Jerry feels more comfortable with but Jason did not. I think Jason would have cut Hardy in the middle of the season if he had the power to do it. Being a leader does not mean that he has all of the power in personnel (that is what a GM/Owner does) but instead means that he gets his team to play hard every Sunday. We can certainly debate game management and schematic issues, but I think that it's a bit of a stretch to not call him a leader because he didn't influence are eccentric owner not to take risks which he has done with every coach despite objection (see TO with Parcels).

 

[visionary]

By "against" I mean he had to be talked into Gregory and Hardy. If you think he gets full say without debate on all personnel decisions....forget it, I know you can't think that.
Only the few HC/GMs have that total control.

I'll put it in simpler terms....
Which of Manziel, Gregory or Hardy do you think Garrett was pounding the table for?
To me, he clearly was against Manziel and Gregory. I always got the impression he got talked into Hardy.

I thought Garrett was 'building this team'? Now you are telling me that there are key players on this team against his wishes? And you are basing this on nothing obviously other than wishful thinking on your part

If Garrett was against these guys and 'got talked into it' then he had no real philosophy or does not believe in his own philosophy of team building or does not have a back bone.

Sorry, no matter how you slice it, it comes out looking bad

 

[Stash]

One thing it clearly shows is that this 'RKG' is nothing but a bunch of hot air. It signifies nothing and accomplishes nothing. It's repeatedly reinterpreted, reinvented, and twisted to fit whatever the current flavor is within the organization.

You'd be hard-pressed to find a more irrelevant phrase in football than Garrett's "right kind of guy".

 

[Hoofbite]

Doug Free is a vocal leader on OL?

 

[Oh_Canada]

By "against" I mean he had to be talked into Gregory and Hardy. If you think he gets full say without debate on all personnel decisions....forget it, I know you can't think that.
Only the few HC/GMs have that total control.

I'll put it in simpler terms....
Which of Manziel, Gregory or Hardy do you think Garrett was pounding the table for?
To me, he clearly was against Manziel and Gregory. I always got the impression he got talked into Hardy.

Well, he better win or he will be debating draft picks on television next year and not in a war room.

 

[Future]

Doug Free is a vocal leader on OL?

I don't think any of the guys in the OP, except Dez, are vocal.

 

[AbeBeta]

I think we can agree that Garrett was
For Frederick
against Manziel
for Martin
Against Hardy but acquiesced
Against Gregory
For Byron Jones

Gregory isn't a bad guy. He's got psycholigal issues that many treat with marijuana. He's probably been self medicating for years. Not the wrong kind of guy, but a guy who we need to get the right kind of help.

Hardy, now that's the wrong kind of guy. I hope he never gets another shot in the NFL

 

[Hoofbite]

I don't think any of the guys in the OP, except Dez, are vocal.

Thinking the same. I can't even remember a notable comment from Free.

Scandrick isn't all that vocal and appears to detest media sessions.

 

[CATCH17]

I'm enjoying speculating about locker room dynamics for the next few years. One thing that popped out at me when I was pondering the position groups after the draft is how much I like the Thornton free agency move. Its a milestone in Jason's RKG makeover.

If you look at each of our position groups, we now have at least one vocal leader. We have Dez at Receiver. Sean Lee at linebacker. Written at TE. Free and Fredbeard at OL. Scadrick at CB. Byron and Church at Safety. Romo at QB.

Last year, Tyrone Crawford was the closest we had to a high football character guy but he's not an emotional leader. (Golden Cock seems similar to me) Mincey may have been doing this in 2014, but I think his holdout and Hardy's arrival might have torpedoed this. If we had someone like Thornton that could hold the rookies accountable, things might have gone better.

But, that's not really my main point. I'm excited to see whether Garret's goal of RKG's finally starts paying of when each position group has a core of RKG's. I really don't know whether it will. But I think we will get some answers. Will vocal leaders make it harder to poison the culture with a risky acquisition? Will we see the culture spread to former misfits? Does this create a culture strong enough that it continues for years with or without drafting tons of team captains every year? I'm definitely going to be watching future losses of RKG's that weaken a position groups character. I have no answers but I'm really curious to see what happens

I don't care about RKG's. I care about winning..

Jerry and Romo will get most of the credit for our success whether we have or don't have RKG's.


Seattle and Denver aren't really RKGing it up with their rosters.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I thought Garrett was 'building this team'? Now you are telling me that there are key players on this team against his wishes? And you are basing this on nothing obviously other than wishful thinking on your part

If Garrett was against these guys and 'got talked into it' then he had no real philosophy or does not believe in his own philosophy of team building or does not have a back bone.

Sorry, no matter how you slice it, it comes out looking bad

Did Bill Parcels have no backbone when TO was brought in?

Life isn't black and white.

And we all must compromise.

 

[DFWJC]

I thought Garrett was 'building this team'? Now you are telling me that there are key players on this team against his wishes? And you are basing this on nothing obviously other than wishful thinking on your part

If Garrett was against these guys and 'got talked into it' then he had no real philosophy or does not believe in his own philosophy of team building or does not have a back bone.

Sorry, no matter how you slice it, it comes out looking bad

I'm not going to argue with you. If you honestly think Garrett was 100% on board with the drafting of Gregory and the acquisition of Hardy, you're just trying to start an argument for some reason.
I think he had to be talked into it and it still a bitter taste. I think I used the term acquiesced. He looked like someone hit him in the gut when they where turning the card in for Gregory.

But I'm not going to argue this anymore right now. Sounds like you just want to fight for no reason.
You win. Feel better now?

 

[DFWJC]

Gregory isn't a bad guy. He's got psycholigal issues that many treat with marijuana. He's probably been self medicating for years. Not the wrong kind of guy, but a guy who we need to get the right kind of help.

Hardy, now that's the wrong kind of guy. I hope he never gets another shot in the NFL

I agree.
I don't think Gregory is a bad guy at all. Seems like a nice person to me....that just had issue. But I do think there were glaring red flags regarding the weed. and mental makeup. I recall Garrett not looking too thrilled in the draft room when they took him, but once they passed on him in round one, I think he must have been more willing to go with the other side of the argument...which is understandable. Risk/reward wise.

I also think he's said all along that more people that are in the locker room that he feels good about character-wise, the more willing he would be to take on some that may not quite be that way. That makes sense, because the overall team culture should prevail.
I don't know if it's working fully, but that was his intent.

 

[lqmac1]

I'm enjoying speculating about locker room dynamics for the next few years. One thing that popped out at me when I was pondering the position groups after the draft is how much I like the Thornton free agency move. Its a milestone in Jason's RKG makeover.

If you look at each of our position groups, we now have at least one vocal leader. We have Dez at Receiver. Sean Lee at linebacker. Written at TE. Free and Fredbeard at OL. Scadrick at CB. Byron and Church at Safety. Romo at QB.

Last year, Tyrone Crawford was the closest we had to a high football character guy but he's not an emotional leader. (Golden Cock seems similar to me) Mincey may have been doing this in 2014, but I think his holdout and Hardy's arrival might have torpedoed this. If we had someone like Thornton that could hold the rookies accountable, things might have gone better.

But, that's not really my main point. I'm excited to see whether Garret's goal of RKG's finally starts paying of when each position group has a core of RKG's. I really don't know whether it will. But I think we will get some answers. Will vocal leaders make it harder to poison the culture with a risky acquisition? Will we see the culture spread to former misfits? Does this create a culture strong enough that it continues for years with or without drafting tons of team captains every year? I'm definitely going to be watching future losses of RKG's that weaken a position groups character. I have no answers but I'm really curious to see what happens

I think Garrett has done a phenomenal job. I know a lot of people bash the guy, but he is starting to change the culture for us. I think we are definitely heading in the right direction under him. Excited for the future and what's to come

 

[visionary]

I'm not going to argue with you. If you honestly think Garrett was 100% on board with the drafting of Gregory and the acquisition of Hardy, you're just trying to start an argument for some reason.
I think he had to be talked into it and it still a bitter taste. I think I used the term acquiesced. He looked like someone hit him in the gut when they where turning the card in for Gregory.

But I'm not going to argue this anymore right now. Sounds like you just want to fight for no reason.
You win. Feel better now?

Much better
'Winning' is my thing

"We haven't been doing a lot of winning lately, when I'm in charge we'll win a lot, a lot"

Donald Trump

 

[visionary]

I think Garrett has done a phenomenal job. I know a lot of people bash the guy, but he is starting to change the culture for us. I think we are definitely heading in the right direction under him. Excited for the future and what's to come

 

[visionary]

Did Bill Parcels have no backbone when TO was brought in?

Life isn't black and white.

And we all must compromise.

That is why he left

Plus jerry had said himself that he had to walk on egg shells in those days when BP was here

Not so much with our resident jellyfish Garrett who is just here to spout cliches and cash a paycheck while giving fans the illusion of real football