Time to give up on this defense

Nova

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It looks bad and will probably be bad. But absolute best case scenario could be nice.

What if the cowboys get Brent back? What if Lawrence is the real deal and Melton returns to form? Not a bad line up of Crawford Brent Melton Lawrence. Then what if McClain pans out and carter plays like he's capable of?

Our secondary is actually pretty solid despite what you mentioned. Wouldn't be horrible.

It's all very unlikely, but at the same time I just got through watching the worst defense in nfl history go to being the second best in the league... Cam Jordan was very underwhelming and suddenly became the 2nd best 34 de in the league.

And I watched a terrible offensive line become arguably the best in the league in a matter of 18 months.

Ya just never know.

Never give up.
 

jday

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The front office really botched putting together this defense. It really all starts with injury prone Sean Lee and soon to be bust Bruce Carter.

Combined with our complete disinterest with drafting defensive linemen* since Anthony Spencer.

This team has not made any real effort to transition properly from 3-4 to 4-3.

This is our 2nd year since moving to the 4-3, and how many front seven draft picks have we had in the first 3 rounds of the draft?

Just one... and it was a second round draft pick... I was and still am completely sold on the drafting of Frederick and Martin, but looking back at things (though I'm excited about both players) drafting Williams and Escobar instead of defensive players wasn't thought through. Then we drafted Devin Street with this years 5th rounder. He'll be lucky to see any significant playing time, but if he does end up playing a lot, it'll probably spell bad news for us.

For the defensive line we need to stop relying on bargain bin players to somehow contribute. I think Marinelli has been a bit overrated in terms of being able to get players to out produce their abilities. Hopefully I can eat crow for saying that. I think we were wrong to buy into the hype from guys like Romo on Crawford. This guy just isn't a dynamic player, and that is exactly why he hasn't been penciled in for any starting position on the line, despite having no solid starters at numerous spots. It's time to stop this and focus on bringing in some real talent. Hopefully we'll be able to get away with Lawrence and Melton for half the line, but we at least need to draft a quality defensive end next year early to man that left end spot.

Sean Lee isn't cost prohibitive and won't be for a long time, but at this point he shouldn't be relied on to start 16 games. Which means you need to bring in 3 linebackers still. Though maybe that won't be the case. Maybe we'll see McClain and Durant show that they can be 2 solid linebackers for us and all we need to do is bring in another linebacker, who can step up when (not if) Sean Lee is hurt again. Would have been really nice to get CJ Mosley, but I'm still glad we drafted Martin.

In the secondary we're paying Carr to be the 5th highest paid corner in the league... He isn't the 5th best corner, and unless he improves greatly this year, he needs to be gone next year. Unfortunately there is a lot of dead money associated with cutting him. If we cut Carr next year, we'll just break even, but we could open up almost 14 million dollars against the cap in 2016. We could also make him a June 1st cut next year which I believe would cost us about 5 million in 2015 and 7.5 million in 2016. That would give us an additional 7 million dollars to spend in free agency next year, and then another 6 million in 2016, followed by 12 million in 2017. Carr has easily been one of the worst signings in a long time. Largely going under the radar too.

2015 is Claiborne's last year on contract with the Cowboys. I would hope to trade him if he can put together a solid 2014 season. Trade him to a team that wants man corners.

The Patriots wanted to improve their secondary this year, they went out and got Revis and Browner... two proven corners, who fit their scheme. Claiborne and Carr should have been replaced when the Cowboys decided to go to a Tampa 2 system... again, no high draft picks on corners since the switch to the 4-3.

Basically what happened is we rested on our laurels and hoped players would just play to expectations and stay healthy when they've never proven they can. We're going to have to hope that the offense is a juggernaut this year.

Since they fired Rob Ryan without cause I would say, these are the top 3 round draft picks we've spent on defense:

JJ Wilcox
DeMarcus Lawrence


2 draft picks for a team desperate in need of help on defense...In those same two years we've drafted 4 players on the offense in the first 3 rounds.


1 preseason game and you are already giving up?
 

Galian Beast

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It looks bad and will probably be bad. But absolute best case scenario could be nice.

What if the cowboys get Brent back? What if Lawrence is the real deal and Melton returns to form? Not a bad line up of Crawford Brent Melton Lawrence. Then what if McClain pans out and carter plays like he's capable of?

Our secondary is actually pretty solid despite what you mentioned. Wouldn't be horrible.

It's all very unlikely, but at the same time I just got through watching the worst defense in nfl history go to being the second best in the league... Cam Jordan was very underwhelming and suddenly became the 2nd best 34 de in the league.

And I watched a terrible offensive line become arguably the best in the league in a matter of 18 months.

Ya just never know.

Never give up.

Look how many ifs are in your scenario, each of them is unlikely, and all of them? Extremely unlikely.

As for the offensive line, yeah after investment... 3 first round draft picks later...
 

big dog cowboy

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The front office really botched putting together this defense. It really all starts with injury prone Sean Lee and soon to be bust Bruce Carter.

The shame is I love reading your stuff and really wanted to read more of this thread but the bolded part just killed it for me.
 

big dog cowboy

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You don't think Carter is on the verge of being a bust? He might not even start this year, and it is his contract year...

I don't think we know what Carter is or isn't going to be in this defense. There is a equal chance he could be above average or below average.
 

Fla Cowpoke

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The problem isn't that we aren't drafting enough defense....it's that we aren't hitting on the guys we do draft.

I remember us drafting heavily on defense for several years in a row.....what did it get us?

2005 - Ware, Ratliff, Canty, Beriault, Spears, Burnett
2006 - Carpenter, Hatcher
2009 - Williams, Butler, Williams, Smith, Mickens
2010 and 2010s - Brent, Lee, Lissemore, Owosu-Ansah
2012 - Claiborne, Crawford, Wilber, Johnson

I think the book still is to be written on some of these guys, but the ones since 2009 should be our backbone but aren't. Sad thing is a lot of our draft picks are playing elsewhere and doing well. The ones we have kept all seem to be injury prone.

Hitting on our guys and resigning our players is the way back to prominance. Overpaying on everyone else's free agents just isn't the way to conduct business.

The one thing I have a little bit of a problem with is we sometimes don't take a player in the draft because it's a reach. How many times have we said that about teams like New England and Seattle and even San Francisco. Maybe a little reach but if it is the guy you like and he fits your system you just bite the bullet. I do think our experimentation with getting bargains in the draft needs to end. The guy who drops due to injury hasn't paid off for us in a while.
 

Setackin

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I was fine with letting D Ware walk but we should've had a better plan then overpay for a rookie and bring in nothing but scrubs.

We have the worst luck with rookies staying healthy so I don't why we decided to put all of our eggs in that basket.

Yea ware needed to go but they should have planned it better.
 

Setackin

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What is with everyone? Sack up and wait for the regular season to start before throwing a hissy fit.

https://encrypted-tbn3.***NOT-ALLOWED***/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWNwqpQw_UoSaQ1sip5C1mywFiWLpYw9mIHwwujjMxPCVjzdsD
 

Setackin

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Just some memes to lighten the mood.
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https://encrypted-tbn1.***NOT-ALLOWED***/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbeUPiVUCw6dWS44XQ0KPeMgT4vtzPmF3kyRRkGRNBtibOQhvDHg

https://encrypted-tbn2.***NOT-ALLOWED***/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRfrSJECVpeHtrmzjAmE17ET8AOTFdiwX2t_nxqWGrbaFdUp-t
 

Setackin

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So the Cowboys were supposed to know his body would start breaking down and he would start getting hurt more frequently before we signed him to his last contract?

They should have never signed him to such a fat contract at his age. Yes, they should have realized this was a distinct possibility. He has been showing the signs for 2 seasons. They should have realized this DL was going down hill...
 

Vanilla2

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They should have never signed him to such a fat contract at his age. Yes, they should have realized this was a distinct possibility. He has been showing the signs for 2 seasons. They should have realized this DL was going down hill...

You'd have gone ape if they let the man go 2-3 years ago.

Monday morning GM's be da worst. sun.
 

Setackin

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You'd have gone ape if they let the man go 2-3 years ago.

Monday morning GM's be da worst. sun.

I never said let him go 2-3 seasons ago I said they shouldn't have signed him to such a fat contract. The contract pretty much forced the Cowboys to let him go.

Ppl who don't read be da worst sun.
 

xwalker

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I never said let him go 2-3 seasons ago I said they shouldn't have signed him to such a fat contract. The contract pretty much forced the Cowboys to let him go.

Ppl who don't read be da worst sun.

If they didn't sign him to the contract, they would have been letting him go.
 

Doc50

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I would just start the analysis at the time that they switched to the 4-3. About the only thing they could have done differently was to draft a defensive player instead of Escobar, but apparently they didn't like any of the defensive players in that range based on the leaked draft board.

Regardless of scheme, it would have been hard to be prepared for losing Ratliff, Josh Brent, Spencer, Ware and Hatcher. They did have draft picks Crawford and Wilber. They aparently started considering Kiffin back around November of 2012. They would have projected the 7 above mentioned players for the DL going into the 4-3. Some teams only carry 8 DL total.

Offenses generally take longer to build. OLines generally take longer to come together than DLines. The league is very offensively driven these days. You have to be able to score to keep up because the rules prevent lock down defenses.

Marinelli has said that they will play a lot of man coverage. All teams play some of both. The Cowboys played primarily man in more than one game last season.

Carr should be good if the surrounding players are decent. Last year he tried to do too much and the surrounding defense was in chaos with both the scheme change and the massive amount of roster turnover during the season.

Claiborne is a decent CB to have on the roster. He just isn't as good as his draft spot, but his draft spot is irrelevant in 2014.

They are trying to assemble a base on defense of players that understand the scheme and can execute it reasonably well. If they can do that this season, then in the off-season they can focus on a few specific needs which can be filled in free agency or the draft. They need stability on the defense. They can add some star power next year in free agency if needed.

The biggest problem this season is a temporary one and that's being without Lawrence and Scandrick to start the season.

They have players that have demonstrated reasonable NFL ability at most positions. They just don't have a lot of Star players. If you say that Carr is not a reasonable NFL CB, then you are being unreasonable.

^^^ THIS ^^^
 
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