Time to give up on this defense

[Toruk_Makto]

I didn't say cheaply either... stop quoting me til u can read, without making assumptions, and not trying to put word in my mouth...

So what you've demonstrated is that you don't understand basic skills of negotiation, leverage and the nature of NFL contracts.

Got it.

 

[5Stars]

So what you've demonstrated is that you don't understand basic skills of negotiation, leverage and the nature of NFL contracts.

Got it.

Bro...nobody knows the financials of the Cowboys. It's really silly to even make suggestions about what or what not should have happened unless you are in the know.

 

[Galian Beast]

No, the salary cap only applies to the overall team. If you find some bargains on offense then you can overspend on defense.

Let's say the in order to be cost effective that you need 8 starters to be on their original rookie contracts each season. It does not matter if those 8 players are 4 on offense and 4 on defense or 8 on offense and zero on defense.

You're missing my point. My point is when you spend X on offense, that determines what you can do on defense. And in this case it means that you have to draft to a certain quality otherwise you will not be able to afford a decent defense.

 

[KJJ]

The front office really botched putting together this defense.

Putting it together? The front office pretty much tore it apart.

 

[Setackin]

So what you've demonstrated is that you don't understand basic skills of negotiation, leverage and the nature of NFL contracts.

Got it.

Yea, I don't get it, maybe u can explain y u give a 6 yr 79mil contract to a 29 yr old. Cmon man don't act like an idiot, ur better than that.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Yea, I don't get it, maybe u can explain y u give a 6 yr 79mil contract to a 29 yr old. Cmon man don't act like an idiot, ur better than that.

Quoting the entire contract amount rather than the guaranteed money like a NFL neophyte.

 

[waving monkey]

The signings of Mincey and McClain revealed a misunderstanding about the depth of our problems on defense.

The fact that they made no attempts to shore us up at linebacker outside of a 4th round draft pick reveal that they misunderstood our weakness at linebacker.

The fact that they didn't have Carr take a pay cut/release him revealed that they didn't understand the lopsided risk involved in paying him at his current rate given his performance.

Drafting Devin Street in the 5th round revealed that they weren't taking the problem more seriously.

These things are only compounded by the drafting of Gavin Escobar last year in the 2nd round when our defense was realing. And you're talking to someone who has high hopes for Escobar, Williams, Frederick, Martin, and even Street. But when you put all of those draft picks together spending so much on the offense was a luxury the team didn't have.

Are you forgetting the R.McClain pick up. They only have so much they can do in one season.
This is a little hindsight criticism but not without some merit

 

[Setackin]

Quoting the entire contract amount rather than the guaranteed money like a NFL neophyte.

You've got to be trolling me... I'm done... u win, I quit...

 

[Nightman]

Please, the entire defense is a question mark. The entire front seven needs overhauled and we need 2 good safeties as well. The defense is a giant hole.

Question marks aren't the same as gaping holes. Do you want to dump every 2nd and 3rd year player it they aren't immediate Pro Bowlers. Carter, Claiborne, Church, Selvie, Crawford, Wilcox all look to be bargains at their salaries. Lee and Lawrence got hurt, but that's hindsight. Carr, Scandrick and Melton are solid. Hitchens was good depth. Mincey and McClain were targeted for this scheme. Bishop, Gardner, Coleman were solid late picks, UDFAs.

Again I would like to know specifically, what were the gaping holes that weren't addressed or filled by promising youngsters.

Wilcox for Jarius Byrd and 60m?
DLawrence for JAllen for 1 year and 10m?
Crawford/Spencer for whom??
Durant for Shazier, he was gone.

I think it was a very good off-season and use of resources. I don't expect an overnight turn around and these moves leave the team with a lot of flexibility going forward. The can throw even more resources at the D next year and still have a young, inexpensive core.

 

[Nightman]

You've got to be trolling me... I'm done... u win, I quit...

Demarcus Ware was one of the best contracts the team ever signed. They got a superstar in his prime for several years and his cap hit was WAY below market value for all those years. When his production no longer matched his salary, they walked away. The dead money this year and next paid for fielding competitive teams the last 5 years. And we are still 10m under the cap this year without restructuring Carr or Witten, so how is the dead money a big deal. The cap is going way up the next couple years, so it will be even less of a factor.

 

[Szczepanik]

If we would of fixed the DL instead of OL we would be whining and complaining still about something else.

It never ends. I am sure next year the defense will be addressed.

Did you forget how our draft targets were mainly defense this year? Draft didn't fall to us the way we wanted it too. Boo hoo.

We would of ended up with 2 possible defensive players in the first 2 rounds if the draft went ideal at the time.

 

[ufcrules1]

I would like a new head coach and defensive staff to start from scratch. Like you said, too many fragile China dolls all over the place to ever get any traction anywhere.

Nothing is going to change until Jerry dies or sells the team. It's ALL his fault.

 

[xwalker]

You're missing my point. My point is when you spend X on offense, that determines what you can do on defense. And in this case it means that you have to draft to a certain quality otherwise you will not be able to afford a decent defense.

No, I think you're missing my point.

Obviously, if you spend too much cap space on offense, you would have less for defense, but that's not what we're talking about here. Your theory is about using draft picks to reduce the cap space required to field an offense or defense. If you need to have 8 starters on their rookie contracts in order to manage the cap, it's does not matter if those 8 are on offense or on defense. If all 8 are on offense then you're spending less cap space on offense than expected and therefore have more cap space available to spend on defense.

 

[Galian Beast]

No, I think you're missing my point.

Obviously, if you spend too much cap space on offense, you would have less for defense, but that's not what we're talking about here. Your theory is about using draft picks to reduce the cap space required to field an offense or defense. If you need to have 8 starters on their rookie contracts in order to manage the cap, it's does not matter if those 8 are on offense or on defense. If all 8 are on offense then you're spending less cap space on offense than expected and therefore have more cap space available to spend on defense.

Well first you have to look at the fact that offense and defense aren't the same. There is no position on par with QB on defense in terms of cap restraints. Going further the cost of skill players on offense tend to outweigh those of defensive players. Going further if you look at our team we're offense heavy.

It's easier to put together a cost effective defense than it is to put together a cost effective offense.

 

[xwalker]

Well first you have to look at the fact that offense and defense aren't the same. There is no position on par with QB on defense in terms of cap restraints. Going further the cost of skill players on offense tend to outweigh those of defensive players. Going further if you look at our team we're offense heavy.

It's easier to put together a cost effective defense than it is to put together a cost effective offense.

If offensive players are more expensive then that's even more reason to use more draft picks on offense.

 

[Galian Beast]

If offensive players are more expensive then that's even more reason to use more draft picks on offense.

It's more reason to use more draft picks on offense, but doesn't change the fact that you still need to hit on a certain number of defensive players to field a defense within budget restraints.

 

[xwalker]

It's more reason to use more draft picks on offense, but doesn't change the fact that you still need to hit on a certain number of defensive players to field a defense within budget restraints.

You haven't shown anything to prove that point.

Last season the money spent on the DLine was extreme but it was balanced out with Dez, Tyron, Murray, Fred, Leary, T. Williams all being starters on rookie contracts. Half of of your concept is correct in that teams must get significant contributions from players on their rookie contracts in order to manage the salary cap and field a competitive team; however, there is no reason that they have to be on offense or defense.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Question marks aren't the same as gaping holes. Do you want to dump every 2nd and 3rd year player it they aren't immediate Pro Bowlers. Carter, Claiborne, Church, Selvie, Crawford, Wilcox all look to be bargains at their salaries. Lee and Lawrence got hurt, but that's hindsight. Carr, Scandrick and Melton are solid. Hitchens was good depth. Mincey and McClain were targeted for this scheme. Bishop, Gardner, Coleman were solid late picks, UDFAs.

Again I would like to know specifically, what were the gaping holes that weren't addressed or filled by promising youngsters.

Wilcox for Jarius Byrd and 60m?
DLawrence for JAllen for 1 year and 10m?
Crawford/Spencer for whom??
Durant for Shazier, he was gone.

I think it was a very good off-season and use of resources. I don't expect an overnight turn around and these moves leave the team with a lot of flexibility going forward. The can throw even more resources at the D next year and still have a young, inexpensive core.

Just bc we signed mincey to start doesn't mean DE isn't a gaping hole.

Gaping holes include both DE spots(we'll see what Lawrence does), 1tech, SAM LB, free safety(we need a true safety with range) and the depth behind the starters looks weak.. I don't disagree with the way the FO is going about rebuilding the D. Although I would've liked to see more resources allocated to fixing the problem, I know it's not going to happen overnight. I am simply stating that there are still gaping holes on this defense. Patching holes with scrubs will only get you so Far. They got a long way to go to fill all the holes and question marks. Hoping UDFA's and FA JAG's can come in and fill that void is not a good plan.

 

[dcstands4]

drafting Marti was the stupidest thing we have done, someont on here wanted us to have 5 1st rounders on the online. Well we almost have them and look at how its turned out, we could have had Dee Ford, Clinton Dix or Calvin Pryor now we got the best potienal Oline in the league but still cant stop a nose bleed.

 

[Galian Beast]

You haven't shown anything to prove that point.

Last season the money spent on the DLine was extreme but it was balanced out with Dez, Tyron, Murray, Fred, Leary, T. Williams all being starters on rookie contracts. Half of of your concept is correct in that teams must get significant contributions from players on their rookie contracts in order to manage the salary cap and field a competitive team; however, there is no reason that they have to be on offense or defense.

I have shown that, which is why I keep saying you're not listening.

I've given you a scenario in which a team spends 50% of their non special teams budget on offense and 50% on defense.

In this scenario a team would need to hit on 4-5 draft picks within a 4 year period in order to have a cost effective defense. This is assuming that the other starters on defense took up an average wage from the remainder of the budget.

When you have a team spend even more on offense, it becomes even MORE important to hit on draft picks on defense, which means you generally need to draft even more defensive players.

We can go back to last year and take an actual look at the 2013 split as opposed to just focusing on the spending on the defensive line.

Last year we were 14th in the league in offensive spending, spending 45.2 million dollars on offense. On defense we were ranked 24th in the league spending 36.8 million dollars.

The type of spending we had last year only heightens my point.

When you spend more on the offense, you have to be more successful drafting defensive players, and you also have to be wiser with how you're spending on defense. We didn't do either of these things.

Our money was tied into 30 somethings who were injury prone and in general decline.