To Be a Two Back System or Not To Be

Gryphon

Merge Ahead
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
31
|by Joe Rodriguez
CowboysBlog.net

You can say the Cowboys started this revolution in 2004, when we added Marion Barber III to the backfield. The Cowboys drafted Julius Jones the year before. In 2004, we drafted MB3, and some thought he would be used as a possible back up to Julius Jones, but those weren't the plans. Parcells planned on using a two-back attack, and the Cowboys one of a few teams that paved the way for other teams going to a two back system.

ESPN's Len Pasquarelli suggests that the two back system is on its way out. Pasquarelli points out several teams getting away from the two back system, such as Indianapolis and a few other former two back systems:

Addai, who led all rookies in rushing yards in 2006 despite not starting a regular-season game, also figures to tote a significantly heavier load in the offense this year.

Dominic Rhodes, the nominal starter in 2006, is gone, having defected to Oakland as an unrestricted free agent.

Other top contenders that have moved away from the two back system are New England and the Bears. Corey Dillion was released from the Patriots, and is about to retire, the Bears opted to trade Thomas Jones to the Jets. Basically these teams have not moved away from this system, but have been forced to rely on a #1 RB due to player attrition via release, trade, and free agency. There's going to be attrition every year, and teams would like the luxury of having a two back system, but there are all these variables that will come into play. In addition, some players in a two back system aren't going to be happy because in some cases one of the two backs wants to be the #1 and only starting back.

More:

Just when it seemed the pendulum was swinging toward teams that preferred a two-back system, a practice that would have been anathema not too many years ago, the momentum seems to have shifted again. General managers who were justifiably concerned over the effects of wear and tear on their No. 1 tailbacks, and thought that they had found a viable solution by spreading the carries around, suddenly find themselves fretting again about a lack of distribution in the running game.

The system does work well, but when you have two good running backs, one of the two will eventually want the chance to be the #1 sole starter for another team. Its the idea that doesn't work well with young talented players that inherently want the spotlight, recognition, and accolades - its natural, its competition. Everyone wants to be the next Emmitt, Walter, or Barry.

There are still some top contending teams that utilize the system like The Cowboys (Jones & Barber), the Saints (McAllister & Bush) ,the Chargers (Tomlinson & Turner), and Jacksonville (Taylor & Maurice-Drew). With these teams, we'll probably see some attrition with the Cowboys and Chargers, eventually the Saints in a year or two. This doesn't mean the system is dead or does it?. If the Cowboys choose not to extend Julius he'll be a free agent next year, but the Cowboys may already have their eyes set on a few other RBs to come in. The Chargers are going to lose Turner next year, so we'll see what their plans are, Norv's background employs a one back system for the most part, so they may be done with the two back system after this year.

So in the end, its not whether teams want a two back system, teams do want the system, but its more of a "short term luxury" than a need. There are great benefits for a two back system. Your offense is more balanced, you have fresh legs in the game at all times, and the wear and tear is diminished a bit on the running backs. The majority of the teams in the playoffs this year employed the two back system - they had that luxury last year. Will we see these teams return to the playoffs with their loses at RB? We will see.
__________________
for more updates visit http://gryphononcowboys.blogspot.com/
 

jobberone

Kane Ala
Messages
54,219
Reaction score
19,659
I've never liked that multiple back system. But I'm a convert. The cons are much fewer than the pros.
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
Gryphon;1510578 said:
|You can say the Cowboys started this revolution in 2004, when we added Marion Barber III to the backfield. The Cowboys drafted Julius Jones the year before. In 2004, we drafted MB3, and some thought he would be used as a possible back up to Julius Jones, but those weren't the plans.
MB3 - 2005 Draft
JJ - 2004 Draft

jobberone;1510587 said:
I've never liked that multiple back system. But I'm a convert. The cons are much fewer than the pros.
I've never liked it much myself, but that's probably in large part due to how it affects fantasy football.

If it ends up in more yards and more TDs than a 1-back system, who cares how many we throw out there?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
Lenny is taking salary constrictions and age and misrepresenting it as willful acts by clubs.

The Colts got rid off james because he was older and up for a big payday; not because they wre moving away from the 2 back system on merit. You cant keep manning, Harrison, Wayne, an OL AND James.

If you dont have a Steven jackson or a LT, LJ or Gore then you need two backs. Most backs in the NFL cannot handle 300 carries in a season.
 

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?
Messages
62,482
Reaction score
67,294
FuzzyLumpkins;1510591 said:
Lenny is taking salary constrictions and age and misrepresenting it as willful acts by clubs.

The Colts got rid off james because he was older and up for a big payday; not because they wre moving away from the 2 back system on merit. You cant keep manning, Harrison, Wayne, an OL AND James.


And if you believe what you read coming out of Indianapolis, they have no intention of scrapping the two back set. They just plan to utilize players you have never heard of, like Dede Dorsey and Kenton Keith.

If you dont have a Steven jackson or a LT

Yet the Rams took Brian Leonard. The Chargers hung onto Michael Turner for big money.

This is just Pasquarelli talking out of his backside.
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
FuzzyLumpkins;1510591 said:
Most backs in the NFL cannot handle 300 carries in a season.
I don't agree with this. Ten backs had at least 300 carries in 2006. There are quite a few just under 300 carries (including Julius Jones with 289 carries). Would anyone say that Julius couldn't handle another 11 carries?

Outside of those 10 backs, the rest were predominantly in 2-back systems. You could say they're in 2-back systems because they can't handle 300 carries, but the only evidence of that is that they're in 2-back systems, which is circular.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
theogt;1510599 said:
I don't agree with this. Ten backs had at least 300 carries in 2006. There are quite a few just under 300 carries (including Julius Jones with 289 carries). Would anyone say that Julius couldn't handle another 11 carries?

Outside of those 10 backs, the rest were predominantly in 2-back systems. You could say they're in 2-back systems because they can't handle 300 carries, but the only evidence of that is that they're in 2-back systems, which is circular.

Of those 10, 3 had under 4 YPC. So of the guys that had over 300 carries only 7 were effective.

You have to have a very good back to go with the one back system. The guys that remain effective after 15 carries in a game or 200 carries in a season are few and far between.
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
FuzzyLumpkins;1510606 said:
Of those 10, 3 had under 4 YPC. So of the guys that had over 300 carries only 7 were effective.

You have to have a very good back to go with the one back system. The guys that remain effective after 15 carries in a game or 200 carries in a season are few and far between.
You're getting pretty shaky here. Edgerrin can "handle" 300 carries. Can he excel with 300 carries? Not really, particularly behind the Arizona line.

Would he be any better at 250 carries? I doubt it.

Your point was that they couldn't handle it. There's nothing showing that he or anyone else can't handle it.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
theogt;1510608 said:
You're getting pretty shaky here. Edgerrin can "handle" 300 carries. Can he excel with 300 carries? Not really, particularly behind the Arizona line.

Would he be any better at 250 carries? I doubt it.

Your point was that they couldn't handle it. There's nothing showing that he or anyone else can't handle it.

dear god theo youre in full on anal mode.

Handle is a relative term. The only thing shaky is your interpretation.

Few players can remain effective and carry the ball 300 times in a season.

Is that easier for you to interpret and still keep the same point I intended from the get go?
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
FuzzyLumpkins;1510609 said:
Few players can remain effective and carry the ball 300 times in a season.
Your proof of this is what?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
theogt;1510611 said:
Your proof of this is what?

Actually in the Julius Jones threads i did look at players effectiveness after 200 carries. Im not going to do it again. Like i have had to say to you so many times in the past: i dont care if you dont believe me.

oh and of the 100 or so RBs in the league last year only 7 were able to get 300 carries and do better than 4 YPC.
 

peplaw06

That Guy
Messages
13,699
Reaction score
413
FuzzyLumpkins;1510591 said:
Lenny is taking salary constrictions and age and misrepresenting it as willful acts by clubs.

The Colts got rid off james because he was older and up for a big payday; not because they wre moving away from the 2 back system on merit. You cant keep manning, Harrison, Wayne, an OL AND James.
Completely agree. The Colts didn't want to pay Rhodes when they have Addai ready to take over. Corey Dillon is over the hill, and the Bears were ready to hand the reigns over to Benson. The Pats still have servicable Kevin Faulk, and the Bears drafted Garrett Wolfe.

Then throw the Vikes in there... a new 2 back team. And they may be the best next year. Right now I have them a close second to Deuce and Bush.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
theogt;1510614 said:
Great. I don't care how much you think you're right.

There were only 7 in 2006, 6 in 2005 and 8 in 2004. Since 2001 there have been at most 10 that have achieved that mark.

In 2006 there were 204 people listed as runningbacks in the NFL.
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
FuzzyLumpkins;1510620 said:
There were only 7 in 2006, 6 in 2005 and 8 in 2004. Since 2001 there have been at most 10 that have achieved that mark.

In 2006 there were 204 people listed as runningbacks in the NFL.
Surely you see how this doesn't show anything at all.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
peplaw06;1510618 said:
Completely agree. The Colts didn't want to pay Rhodes when they have Addai ready to take over. Corey Dillon is over the hill, and the Bears were ready to hand the reigns over to Benson. The Pats still have servicable Kevin Faulk, and the Bears drafted Garrett Wolfe.

Then throw the Vikes in there... a new 2 back team. And they may be the best next year. Right now I have them a close second to Deuce and Bush.

With that running attack, if the Vikes can get servicable QB play that offense could very well take off. Doesnt look like they will this year but if they do look out.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
theogt;1510629 said:
Surely you see how this doesn't show anything at all.

Well it shows that less than 1% have been able to it in the last 6 years but since you say so theo..... :rolleyes:
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
FuzzyLumpkins;1510633 said:
Well it shows that less than 1% have been able to it in the last 6 years but since you say so theo..... :rolleyes:
Actually it doesn't. It only shows that less than 1% have actually done it. It says nothing about capability. I've never ran a marathon. That doesn't mean I can't.
 

jobberone

Kane Ala
Messages
54,219
Reaction score
19,659
theogt;1510636 said:
Actually it doesn't. It only shows that less than 1% have actually done it. It says nothing about capability. I've never ran a marathon. That doesn't mean I can't.

Then just because you can have an argument doesn't mean you have to. Or do you want to argue the flip side of the coin now?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
theogt;1510636 said:
Actually it doesn't. It only shows that less than 1% have actually done it. It says nothing about capability. I've never ran a marathon. That doesn't mean I can't.

Well the numbers remain remarkably consistent over the short term past. if you want to believe there is a bevy of NFL backs that could accomplished the feat but the coaches just wont give them the oppurtunity then you go right ahead.
 
Top