Tom Curran on Cowboys locker room

[Beast_from_East]

And the BP haters need one too. The 2007 and 2008 roster was pretty near the same.

What does the 07 and 08 rosters have to do with Parcells when Phillups was the coach of both teams???

07---Phillups first year, division title and #1 seed

08---Phillups second year, did not quality for playoffs.


The 07 to 08 compairsion is why most fans are calling for Wade's head on a platter.

Again, what does Phillups incompetence have to do with Tuna winning jack in 4 years???

 

[junk]

Parcells probably wore out his welcome, but anyone that dismisses his time here needs to pull their head out of the sand.

He was essential to turning around those perpetual 5-11 teams and acquiring the talent base that Phillips can't seem to manage.

Unfortunately, the lack of direction at the top has this team pointed back towards the 5-11 years and further away from the playoffs and Super Bowl.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

He's not responsible. Those who allow that kind of environment are responsible. We know exactly which individuals fall into that category.

There are just too many allegations to constantly brush them off as overly eager reporters making things up.

I think the key part is "Everybody knows Jerry Jones wants him there".

I believe this is true and this serves as a prime example of how Jerry Jones can be extremely toxic to the Dallas Cowboys Organization.

 

[Alexander]

There are just too many allegations to constantly brush them off as overly eager reporters making things up.

I think the key part is "Everybody knows Jerry Jones wants him there".

I believe this is true and this serves as a prime example of how Jerry Jones can be extremely toxic to the Dallas Cowboys Organization.

Everyone knew that Pacman Jones, Terrell Owens and Tank Johnson were/are Cowboys because of Jerry Jones.

When the owner and GM are one in the same, the clout of the decisions from that individual are magnified. It is just that simple. This is not an organization like most in the league. Elsewhere, you can have a "power struggle" between the GM and head coach. If the head coach does not like a GM's "project", they tend to have the ability to do something about it. You see it happen often.

In this case, it would be in direct conflict with the direction given by their boss. No one can say with a straight face that it does not have an impact. It makes life easier for the GM because they are untouchable and their decisions carry the weight of ownership. It makes life difficult for the head coach who may have to grin and bear it. The players see that everyday and obviously lose respect.

 

[jterrell]

The Cowboys of the 90s had dominoes and card games, they had a crazy guy from SF named Haley who had urinated on a teammates car hood and also performed other even more disturbing acts. And no one confronted Haley.

They also had cliques. The OL(especially the white guys) and Aikman were a clique. The "White House" crew was a clique.

But somehow it all worked.

Last I checked in NE Tom Brady is running around with super models not Randy Moss all off-season.

BP ran a tight locker room but the results weren't much different than under Wade. All this stuff is just chatter. And chatter will happen until the team wins. I just hope the team is as sick of it as me because perhaps they will do something about it next year.

 

[JPM]

The Cowboys of the 90s had dominoes and card games, they had a crazy guy from SF named Haley who had urinated on a teammates car hood and also performed other even more disturbing acts. And no one confronted Haley.

They also had cliques. The OL(especially the white guys) and Aikman were a clique. The "White House" crew was a clique.

But somehow it all worked.

Last I checked in NE Tom Brady is running around with super models not Randy Moss all off-season.

BP ran a tight locker room but the results weren't much different than under Wade. All this stuff is just chatter. And chatter will happen until the team wins. I just hope the team is as sick of it as me because perhaps they will do something about it next year.

Great post ! Please leave this thread.......

 

[Kangaroo]

The Cowboys of the 90s had dominoes and card games, they had a crazy guy from SF named Haley who had urinated on a teammates car hood and also performed other even more disturbing acts. And no one confronted Haley.

They also had cliques. The OL(especially the white guys) and Aikman were a clique. The "White House" crew was a clique.

But somehow it all worked.

Last I checked in NE Tom Brady is running around with super models not Randy Moss all off-season.

BP ran a tight locker room but the results weren't much different than under Wade. All this stuff is just chatter. And chatter will happen until the team wins. I just hope the team is as sick of it as me because perhaps they will do something about it next year.

I think the results where different because of the talent he did not have until the end and he was burned out by that point what he managed to accomplish running out Carter, chutch, Vinny and Drew was a work of magic.

Lets not forget guys like Hambrick at RB

 

[jterrell]

What does the 07 and 08 rosters have to do with Parcells when Phillups was the coach of both teams???

07---Phillups first year, division title and #1 seed

08---Phillups second year, did not quality for playoffs.


The 07 to 08 compairsion is why most fans are calling for Wade's head on a platter.

Again, what does Phillups incompetence have to do with Tuna winning jack in 4 years???

Perhaps because BP didn't win either.

You don't win with stern discipline and the most structure in the league than you don't win with the relaxed player friendly atmosphere.

The common denominator is NOT WINNING.

It is hilarious how many people think a return BP's ways wins here even though it did not previously with the same basic talent on the field.

We had Romo, T.O., Witten, Ware, T-New, Bradie James, Greg Ellis and the OL.

Stop crying about friggin style for cripessake. Style doesn't win games, substance does. To get substance you need players and preferably healthy ones. The Giants lose Plaxico then can't win a playoff game. The Pats lose Brady then can't make the playoffs. It is about talent not their style.

BOTH team have a knucklehead WR btw!!!!

Somehow they managed to win at a high rate with them.

 

[jterrell]

I think the results where different because of the talent he did not have until the end and he was burned out by that point what he managed to accomplish running out Carter, chutch, Vinny and Drew was a work of magic.

Lets not forget guys like Hambrick at RB

It also helped that we played a 5 win teams schedule.

And that we drafted very well to upgrade talent immediately upon his arrival.
But by the end BP had the talent he wanted here and we still didn't win. He never approached Wade's 13 win regular season and his post-season record is the same 0 fer crap.

You want structure and discipline and all those things but end of the day you either win or you do not.

These style arguments are pointless to the point of comedy.

Bottom line on 2008 is the Dallas Cowboys were derailed by injuries, off-field distractions the media parlayed into as much noise as possible and a ridiculously tough schedule.

Next year they get to play that 3rd place schedule and it is extremely unlikely they will see the same stretch of games at the end.

Because every network known to man and the league itself wants Dallas on nationally they also face a "big game" virtually every week. It makes tough schedules tougher.

But if the Cowboys are hurting at QB, RB, CB, WR and TE then guess what? They will also struggle to meet perceived expectations again.

If you have a 5 man team in business and you set yearly goals then have 1 member get laid off, a 2nd member take a family medical leave for 6 months then it becomes extremely difficult to meet expectations. So goals have to change as the situation does. Only in sports do we remain so wholly unrealistic.

 

[jterrell]

How long is this ******** argument going to paraded out when Parcells inherited one of the worst rosters and scouting organizations in football? And was saddled by his owner/GM with Carter and Hutch by default to boot?

Given what Wade was given, do you think he would have even improved on 5-11 with that team considering his performance to date?

******** is arguing based purely on opinion and speculation which is what you are doing.

Make points that deal with facts or don't bother imho.

BP hasn't won a championship in forever. He has hardly proven to be the panacea for getting a Ring. He is a great guy to build a team form ashes tho and he has proven that.

We drafted Scandrick, Choice, Jones and Jenkins without BP or his main scouts here.

 

[Alexander]

But somehow it all worked.

And why do you think that was? Blind luck?

The Cowboys of that era survived the distractions and horseplay because of strong leadership. From the head coach. From the players like Aikman and Irvin. There has to be a time when the choke collar is pulled back. Johnson knew how to do that. Even a borderline psychotic like Haley could harness himself for a game. This team has yet to be able to do that because there is no standard that they are held to from leadership.

Once that leadership started to erode, then you saw a gradual decrease in effectiveness, from Switzer on down until it completely dissolved until Parcells had to start righting the ship. He started first with the things he could control. They may seem trivial to some people here. But apparently a future Hall of Fame coach decided that was where he needed to start.

But according to our owner, leadership and chemistry are overrated. So we are right where we are now. The immaturity from who should be leading this team is astonishing. It is clear that early last season they felt entitled to have teams roll over and just lose because they were convinced up and down that the talent was simply going to overwhelm everyone. You even heard the players speak to this. The season showed that teams with greater wills could beat us.

It is even more disturbing that there seemed to be a complete and utter lack of introspection from this team that could explain it. Some blew the accountibility whistle at the coaching staff. Maybe they are right. But it is not something that "winning" just takes care of. Otherwise we would have continued on the roll we seemed to be starting after the Giants game. I think this team really still believes the 13-3 nonsense from the year before and really refused to acknowledge their own limitations. That too comes from the top.

I just hope the team is as sick of it as me because perhaps they will do something about it next year.

So the players will just suddenly decide to act mature and it all takes care of itself? A weak willed team is going to suddenly develop a backbone? Until the culture and specifically leadership changes, good luck with all of that.

 

[Alexander]

We drafted Scandrick, Choice, Jones and Jenkins without BP or his main scouts here.

The scouting department and the organizational philosophy regarding the draft was completely overhauled thanks to Coach Parcells. That is all part of how he did right the ship. For all practical purposes, this was his greatest contribution from his tenure, but it is lost on so many people it is remarkable.

He reeducated Jones on how important trusting the scouts was. If anything there was once again healthy dialogue and not the Jerry and Larry show that was an unmitigated disaster. He pushed for the current system when Ireland was installed and Jones carried the model over by entrusting Ciskowski with very much the same responsibilities and level of trust.

 

[irvin4evs]

This has nothing to do with Terrell Owens and everything to do with Wade Phillips.

End of thread.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

It is true that Bill Parcells didn't have great success winning here.

However, what he did do was give the Organization a much needed kick in the butt, helped our inept Scouting Department and most importantly was there as a counter to Jerry Jones.

Do people honestly think it is a coincidence that this franchise started winning quite a bit more once Bill Parcells arrived on the scene.

Bill Parcells was great for this organization and we wouldn't be in the position we are in without him.

 

[dmq]

The team that Bill Parcells inherited was just like this and was on the tail end of three consecutive 5-11 seasons. People laughed when one of the first things he addressed the domino games, cleared out a clubhouse turned into a hangout, shooed players out of packed trainer's rooms and whirlpools and made players earn their star.

Now we are right back to that same environment and people like you find it as no big deal. Coach Parcells said it when he left. Soon we would be able to tell he was never there. How right he was.

I think the domino playing was more under Switzer. I see this team being handled just like that team. A team that should have won in 94. A team that in 95 had to buy talent in Deion Sanders to have a chance at the SB and got lucky in the SB because O'Donnell thought he played for us. By 96, the team was already a shell of it's previous self.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

And why do you think that was? Blind luck?

The Cowboys of that era survived the distractions and horseplay because of strong leadership. From the head coach. From the players like Aikman and Irvin. There has to be a time when the choke collar is pulled back. Johnson knew how to do that. Even a borderline psychotic like Haley could harness himself for a game. This team has yet to be able to do that because there is no standard that they are held to from leadership.

Once that leadership started to erode, then you saw a gradual decrease in effectiveness, from Switzer on down until it completely dissolved until Parcells had to start righting the ship. He started first with the things he could control. They may seem trivial to some people here. But apparently a future Hall of Fame coach decided that was where he needed to start.

But according to our owner, leadership and chemistry are overrated. So we are right where we are now. The immaturity from who should be leading this team is astonishing. It is clear that early last season they felt entitled to have teams roll over and just lose because they were convinced up and down that the talent was simply going to overwhelm everyone. You even heard the players speak to this. The season showed that teams with greater wills could beat us.

It is even more disturbing that there seemed to be a complete and utter lack of introspection from this team that could explain it. Some blew the accountibility whistle at the coaching staff. Maybe they are right. But it is not something that "winning" just takes care of. Otherwise we would have continued on the roll we seemed to be starting after the Giants game. I think this team really still believes the 13-3 nonsense from the year before and really refused to acknowledge their own limitations. That too comes from the top.



So the players will just suddenly decide to act mature and it all takes care of itself? A weak willed team is going to suddenly develop a backbone? Until the culture and specifically leadership changes, good luck with all of that.

Great post.

I agree with absolutely everything you said.

 

[Alexander]

This has nothing to do with Terrell Owens and everything to do with Wade Phillips.

End of thread.

There are no absolutes in this mess. It is not all Terrell Owens' fault, but if he is the "alpha male" then that is a problem. Everyone knew what kind of head coach Wade Phillips was. It was not like he was well-respected for his ability to manage personalities and take charge of a locker room. Jerry Jones wanted the anti-Parcells. Well, he got him. It is a bit unfair to ask the man to be something he absolutely is not. And I believe Phillips' response to the "change" challenge reflects that. He's not going to change because it would not be effective or anything close to genuine.

 

[irvin4evs]

It is true that Bill Parcells didn't have great success winning here.

However, what he did do was give the Organization a much needed kick in the butt, helped our inept Scouting Department and most importantly was there as a counter to Jerry Jones.

Do people honestly think it is a coincidence that this franchise started winning quite a bit more once Bill Parcells arrived on the scene.

Bill Parcells was great for this organization and we wouldn't be in the position we are in without him.

Parcells made this team play one inspired season: the first he was here. We willed our way to 10-6 with a 5-11 team. However, Bill's hardass routine became tired and ineffective, and he lacked the X's and O's knowledge necessary to turn our team into anything special.

Now it seems like we've gone the opposite way, trading the tyranny for X's and O's (at least, on the defensive side...). Hopefully Wade can strike a better balance next year.

Another part of the problem is that we've just got some turds on this team. I suspect these are a few of them: Flozell Adams, Kevin Burnett, Greg Ellis, Ken Hamlin, Mike Jenkins, both Roy Williamses.

Marcus Spears was on the short list, but he played hard last year. Deon Anderson might be a turd, but he also plays hard.

We quite simply need to make a very real effort to target naturally hard workers, motor guys like Jay Ratliff, Keith Davis, Jason Witten, Marion Barber, Marc Colombo, etc. If you get guys who are prone to disciplining themselves, you end up self-perpetuating traditions of excellence like the Eagles, Ravens and Steelers all have on defense.

 

[irvin4evs]

There are no absolutes in this mess. It is not all Terrell Owens' fault, but if he is the "alpha male" then that is a problem. Everyone knew what kind of head coach Wade Phillips was. It was not like he was well-respected for his ability to manage personalities and take charge of a locker room. Jerry Jones wanted the anti-Parcells. Well, he got him. It is a bit unfair to ask the man to be something he absolutely is not. And I believe Phillips' response to the "change" challenge reflects that. He's not going to change because it would not be effective or anything close to genuine.

If the alpha male were the critical variable then we'd have a full roster of guys with obsessive work ethics. We don't. The only guys matching Owens' example are guys like Witten and Ware: the best players on the team.

Can we agree that Tony Dungy would be an acceptable goal for Wade? What would that really consist of?

I think Wade should first and foremost implement a strict anti-media rule in the team. Make it a closed house. The only other thing I can think of is tougher practices and training camps. Stop giving days off to guys just because they did pretty good last week.

Is that really something Wade can't do? Not in my opinion. It only requires a change of routine, not personality. Whether he has the guts to do these things is another matter, though.

 

[DWhite Fan]

If the alpha male were the critical variable then we'd have a full roster of guys with obsessive work ethics. We don't. The only guys matching Owens' example are guys like Witten and Ware: the best players on the team.

Can we agree that Tony Dungy would be an acceptable goal for Wade? What would that really consist of?

I think Wade should first and foremost implement a strict anti-media rule in the team. Make it a closed house. The only other thing I can think of is tougher practices and training camps. Stop giving days off to guys just because they did pretty good last week.

Is that really something Wade can't do? Not in my opinion. It only requires a change of routine, not personality. Whether he has the guts to do these things is another matter, though.

There is absolutely nothing Wade can do to stop the bleeding. The players on this team DO NOT RESPECT PHILLIPS, nor will they in the future. I personally don't believe they ever did and consequently, Wade is basically a "lame duck" coach :starspin