Tony Pauline: Jets Want La’el + Pick for Adams

xwalker

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Maybe there's good reason why the Jets would be asking for La'El Collins?

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...ffensive-tackle-by-pff-in-2019-dallas-cowboys

And good reason why it would be dumb to give him up and why the Cowboys have no intention of doing so.

If the Cowboys desperately wanted Adams, it would be better to just give up draft picks at this point.

If they had made a trade at the beginning of free agency, then the Cowboys could have signed a RT, but at this point that would be difficult.

Players remaining in free agency as this time of year generally have issues.

The Pats have won multiple Super Bowls with Patrick Chung as their SS...
 

Hoofbite

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Not a chance, and I'm surprised they'd even ask. Dallas would be foolish to make such a trade and the Jets are even more foolish for asking.

Dallas has completely devalued the safety position for about 10-12 years. Ken Hamlin is the last big investment in that position, and he busted. Dallas values the OL highly, and pretty much values the safety position at nothing. Only a complete idiot would try to negotiate a trade like this with Dallas. At the same time, only a complete idiot would accept a trade like this. Given we have Jerry at GM, it's probably 50/50.
 

robjay04

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Not a chance, and I'm surprised they'd even ask. Dallas would be foolish to make such a trade and the Jets are even more foolish for asking.

Dallas has completely devalued the safety position for about 10-12 years. Ken Hamlin is the last big investment in that position, and he busted. Dallas values the OL highly, and pretty much values the safety position at nothing. Only a complete idiot would try to negotiate a trade like this with Dallas. At the same time, only a complete idiot would accept a trade like this. Given we have Jerry at GM, it's probably 50/50.

I’ll play devils advocate and say they did spend a first round pick with Byron Jones—-he was just not a safety but the team did draft him to he one.
 

Plankton

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Someone please explain to me how it's a good idea to trade a very good, still young, power tackle for an excellent safety while taking a nearly $16M hit against the cap this year in dead money from Collins, possibly throw in draft capital, and have to pay Adams a top of the market contract?

I love Adams as much as the next guy, but this would be criminally stupid.
 

Stash

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If the Cowboys desperately wanted Adams, it would be better to just give up draft picks at this point.

If they had made a trade at the beginning of free agency, then the Cowboys could have signed a RT, but at this point that would be difficult.

Players remaining in free agency as this time of year generally have issues.

That's been my steadfast position on this. If they do want to trade for him and then sign him to that big extension (also a mandatory requirement in my mind), the only thing I'm willing to part with are draft picks alone. Nothing else.

The Pats have won multiple Super Bowls with Patrick Chung as their SS...

I'm not clear on this point?
 

CowboyRoy

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Adams is already protesting his current contract.

A team can't trade for him and assume that he'll be fine playing out the current contract even if he or his agent claim they'll be OK with it.'

There would have to be a modified contract which really means new contract that makes it prohibitive for him to hold out.

That would mean part of the 6M and 8M salaries would need to be bonuses that he only receive if he played then entire season without holding out.

That would be a step down contract for a player that wants a huge step up contract. It's almost impossible that he or his agent would actually agree to it.

All part of the negotiation that would have to be made before any extension is made. Or you could just trade for him and force him to play out the next two years. Which I wouldn't do.
 

xwalker

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I'm not clear on this point?
The point is that Patrick Chung is average but the Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with him as their starting SS.

Teams can win with average Strong Safeties.

It's hard to win with average players at the premium positions (QB, Pass Rusher, CB, LT, WR). Teams need at least some of those 5 premium positions to be elite players.
 

xwalker

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All part of the negotiation that would have to be made before any extension is made. Or you could just trade for him and force him to play out the next two years. Which I wouldn't do.

My point is that the 6M and 8M that you listed are not relevant to the Pro/Con arguments because the team has to give him a new contract before trading away multiple picks/players to get him.

You can't force him to play.if he decides to hold out. The Steelers couldn't force their RB to play a couple of seasons ago and he didn't.
 

BAT

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The point is that Patrick Chung is average but the Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with him as their starting SS.

Teams can win with average Strong Safeties.

It's hard to win with average players at the premium positions (QB, Pass Rusher, CB, LT, WR). Teams need at least some of those 5 premium positions to be elite players.

Chung still better than Heath, Hamlin, etc.
 

CowboyRoy

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My point is that the 6M and 8M that you listed are not relevant to the Pro/Con arguments because the team has to give him a new contract before trading away multiple picks/players to get him.

You can't force him to play.if he decides to hold out. The Steelers couldn't force their RB to play a couple of seasons ago and he didn't.

Sure, but the agreement could simply be an extension where his salary remains on his rookie deal the next two years and then gets a raise. That's what they did with Zeke.

So obviously you have to negotiate all that before you trade for him. If he wants to be paid 16 million starting the first year, then you probably don't do it. At least not for Adams.
 

Stash

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The point is that Patrick Chung is average but the Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with him as their starting SS.

Teams can win with average Strong Safeties.

It's hard to win with average players at the premium positions (QB, Pass Rusher, CB, LT, WR). Teams need at least some of those 5 premium positions to be elite players.

I consider that to be a poor point, considering that the Patriots are an anomaly and the exception to just about every established rule for the rest of the league.
 

xwalker

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I consider that to be a poor point, considering that the Patriots are an anomaly and the exception to just about every established rule for the rest of the league.

Strong Safeties from the past 8 Super Bowl participants:

2016
Falcons Ricardo Allen
Pats Patrick Chung

2017
Eagles Rodney McLeod
Pats Patrick Chung

2018
Rams John Johnson
Pats Patrick Chung

2019
49ers Jaquiski Tartt
Chiefs Tyrann Mathieu


Mathieu played more Nickel CB, Free Safety and 2-deep Safety than he played as a true SS.
 

robjay04

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Strong Safeties from the past 8 Super Bowl participants:

2016
Falcons Ricardo Allen
Pats Patrick Chung

2017
Eagles Rodney McLeod
Pats Patrick Chung

2018
Rams John Johnson
Pats Patrick Chung

2019
49ers Jaquiski Tartt
Chiefs Tyrann Mathieu


Mathieu played more Nickel CB, Free Safety and 2-deep Safety than he played as a true SS.

The best argument is Adams is a generational type of talent at that position that can alter the outcome of games.

But yes...this board especially overrated the position. There isn’t a lot of big safety contracts in the entire league so Dallas isn’t the only one overlooking the position.
 

xwalker

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The best argument is Adams is a generational type of talent at that position that can alter the outcome of games.

But yes...this board especially overrated the position. There isn’t a lot of big safety contracts in the entire league so Dallas isn’t the only one overlooking the position.

No doubt that Adams is a great player and that he would be a big upgrade.

The issue is that for multiple picks and a mega-contract, why not find a great pass rusher, great CB, etc..
 

doomsday9084

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I'm probably in the minority on this but I have seen great safeties control a defense. Many of the best teams of all time featured great safeties. I think that their ability to see the whole field and participate in virtually every type of play makes them more important that they are given credit for. If I was going to pick a position to minimize, it would actually be linebacker if you are running a 4-3.
 

fivetwos

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No doubt that Adams is a great player and that he would be a big upgrade.

The issue is that for multiple picks and a mega-contract, why not find a great pass rusher, great CB, etc..
Why not?

Who is rumored to be available?

I dont think the Jets have much intention of dealing Adams either anytime soon, so...quite moot.
 
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