Trade Lawrence for a second round pick

yimyammer

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If they had insurance and many teams do for their big contracts

They would take the cap hit but any money paid out by the insurance company the team would recover that amount on the next year's salary cap

The same for any subsequent year if the player remained retired do to injury

do you have a source that explains how this insurance works and most importantly how it allows a team to recoup cap space? I'd like to read about this in more detail, thx

I understand if the team were to buy a policy from say, Lloyds of London, they would recoup perhaps a significant amount or all of a guaranteed salary but I don't understand how that policy would allow the team to recoup cap space, this policy seems more related to the financial side of the team, not the salary cap.
 

Nightman

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do you have a source that explains how this insurance works and most importantly how it allows a team to recoup cap space? I'd like to read about this in more detail, thx

I understand if the team were to buy a policy from say, Lloyds of London, they would recoup perhaps a significant amount or all of a guaranteed salary but I don't understand how that policy would allow the team to recoup cap space, this policy seems more related to the financial side of the team, not the salary cap.
The Insurance company would be technically paying the player so the team would get back every dollar the policy paid on the salary cap

The thing is that the insurance money is tax free so the team only needs about 1/2 the guaranteed salary which lowers the cost but also lowers the amount of cap space they get back

The policy itself has to be charged against the cap since the beneficiary is the player.... it is usually around 10k per 1m

Look up Peyton Manning, Jay Ajayi, Jaylon Smith and Navarro Bowman for examples and articles about the insurance
 

yimyammer

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The Insurance company would be technically paying the player so the team would get back every dollar the policy paid on the salary cap

The thing is that the insurance money is tax free so the team only needs about 1/2 the guaranteed salary which lowers the cost but also lowers the amount of cap space they get back

The policy itself has to be charged against the cap since the beneficiary is the player.... it is usually around 10k per 1m

Look up Peyton Manning, Jay Ajayi, Jaylon Smith and Navarro Bowman for examples and articles about the insurance

thx

It sounds like teams can structure a contract with a player to include a catastrophic insurance policy so in the event the player is injured to the extent the insurance policy would kick in (& perhaps require his release from the team), then the player would accept the compensation for the guaranteed salary from the insurance company and not the team, thereby removing the team from actually paying the player which results in a far less salary cap hit & dead money .

I wonder if the cost of the policy has to be added to the contract and charged to the cap or is this a clever way to mitigate risk and not take a cap hit for the cost to mitigate said risk reading is fundamental...

sound about right?
 

Nightman

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thx

It sounds like teams can structure a contract with a player to include a catastrophic insurance policy so in the event the player is injured to the extent the insurance policy would kick in (& perhaps require his release from the team), then the player would accept the compensation for the guaranteed salary from the insurance company and not the team, thereby removing the team from actually paying the player which results in a far less salary cap hit & dead money .

I wonder if the cost of the policy has to be added to the contract and charged to the cap or is this a clever way to mitigate risk and not take a cap hit for the cost to mitigate said risk reading is fundamental...

sound about right?
Yeah you got it

But it is more of a reimbursement

DAL still pays the guaranteed salary on schedule as the player is on the IR and then the insurance policy kicks in and the team is credited back any amount paid to the player.... the salary cap space is adjusted to the next season

They might not get it all back since the insurance money is taxfree but even 10m back on a 17m base salary is pretty good for a catastrophic injury
 

gjkoeppen

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I think the deal is a little bit “rich” in terms of the percentage of the cap his contract ties up. He may turn out to be worth the cap hit. But if he doesn’t that sort of hit can really leave a hickey.

For instance what happens in game 1 of this year if Tank snaps a femur and it ends up being a career ender? Well that well obviously be most unfortunate. But hey that’s football. But you can’t discount that risk.

Verdict EVERY player from the highest paid to the lowest paid runs that same risk. That's a gamble on EVERY contract.
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Verdict

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Verdict EVERY player from the highest paid to the lowest paid runs that same risk. That's a gamble on EVERY contract.
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While that is a true statement, the ramifications are much greater on mega contracts
 

gjkoeppen

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thx

It sounds like teams can structure a contract with a player to include a catastrophic insurance policy so in the event the player is injured to the extent the insurance policy would kick in (& perhaps require his release from the team), then the player would accept the compensation for the guaranteed salary from the insurance company and not the team, thereby removing the team from actually paying the player which results in a far less salary cap hit & dead money .

I wonder if the cost of the policy has to be added to the contract and charged to the cap or is this a clever way to mitigate risk and not take a cap hit for the cost to mitigate said risk reading is fundamental...

sound about right?

First off, even if a player goes on IR and even if he has a guaranteed contract he still only gets either 76% or 78% of the salary. I don't remember which it is. Second, all salary, even guaranteed salary and/or bonuses are guaranteed as long as the player is capable of playing. If a player has a career ending injury, the remainder of his contract is then null and void and that portion no longer is charged to the cap. Many players take out their own injury insurance policies for just that reason. There was a player about 10 years ago that did have a career ending injury and then collected on his insurance policy for 10 mil and then a couple years later he was going to try to make a come back and when the insurance company heard about this they informed him that if he did they would go after getting the 10 mil back. He stopped the attempt and stayed retired. Teams don't have to take out insurance policies because if that happens the unpaid portion of the player's contact is voided out and comes off the cap.
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Verdict

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But that doesn't stop teams from giving them because it's a risk on all contracts.
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That’s true. Lol. But I think you are missing my point. Dallas has a substantial risk of loss tied to Tank’s new contract. Hopefully, it turns out to be worth the risk and not another Dez albatross. Ratliff and Orton were also really bad contracts.

Maybe this one will turn out ok.
 

Verdict

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First off, even if a player goes on IR and even if he has a guaranteed contract he still only gets either 76% or 78% of the salary. I don't remember which it is. Second, all salary, even guaranteed salary and/or bonuses are guaranteed as long as the player is capable of playing. If a player has a career ending injury, the remainder of his contract is then null and void and that portion no longer is charged to the cap. Many players take out their own injury insurance policies for just that reason. There was a player about 10 years ago that did have a career ending injury and then collected on his insurance policy for 10 mil and then a couple years later he was going to try to make a come back and when the insurance company heard about this they informed him that if he did they would go after getting the 10 mil back. He stopped the attempt and stayed retired. Teams don't have to take out insurance policies because if that happens the unpaid portion of the player's contact is voided out and comes off the cap.
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I don’t know about that. What do guaranteed mean?
 

Nightman

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First off, even if a player goes on IR and even if he has a guaranteed contract he still only gets either 76% or 78% of the salary.
not sure where you got that from.... guaranteed is guaranteed.... all of it

If a player has a career ending injury, the remainder of his contract is then null and void and that portion no longer is charged to the cap
Again not sure where you are getting your info
 

Beaker42

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The deal would have been already done . I'm sure a lot of people don't like it but I would do it in a heartbeat
Not sure any team wanted to trade for a guy who needed surgery but was refusing to have it. MAYBE once he recuperates but not until.
 

JayFord

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I didn’t know this thread was still active

Anything less than a first this year and next year I wouldn’t trade him

And I’m not even a tank fan
 

gjkoeppen

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not sure where you got that from.... guaranteed is guaranteed.... all of it


Again not sure where you are getting your info

Try reading ALL OF the current CBA. Players don't get full salary when on IR and if they sustain a career ending injury the remainder of their contract is null and void and is no longer charged against the cap. That is why the smart players take out career ending injury insurance.
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Nightman

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Try reading ALL OF the current CBA. Players don't get full salary when on IR and if they sustain a career ending injury the remainder of their contract is null and void and is no longer charged against the cap. That is why the smart players take out career ending injury insurance.
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that is not in the CBA I read.... they absolutely get all of their base salary if they get hurt and go on the IR unless they signed a split contract and only low rated rookies and UDFAs sign those

a career ending injury does not null and void any guaranteed payments or future cap charges
 

GMO415

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Once he returns from his surgery, he's definitely worth a 1st.
 

gjkoeppen

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that is not in the CBA I read.... they absolutely get all of their base salary if they get hurt and go on the IR unless they signed a split contract and only low rated rookies and UDFAs sign those

a career ending injury does not null and void any guaranteed payments or future cap charges

I suggest you read a little more or the complete CBA.
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