Tweet about Coleman

[jobberone]

You bring as many reasonable options to camp as possible. Hard to know how some progress year to year, who'll we'll lose, and who rises or falls with the draft and FA.

 

[Idgit]

The Cowboys would be wise to seek better options than Coleman, Bishop and all the other fringe players. These are not the players that are going to take this defense to the next level. I agree with RS, this is the old Nagy/Costa chatter......

Well, of course you're looking to upgrade the players at the bottom of every position group. That's always been the case in the NFL and it always will be. Undrafted players always start out as scrubs. Right up until hey're not and they earn spots in your rotation like Beasley or Harris did. Or they become starters for you like Leary or Church or Romo did.

That said, young three techs who can contribute at the one, have the strength to put up 35 bench reps at their pro day, and show the quick first step Coleman did in camp and early preseason typically get shots on NFL roster.

And posters as wrong as Risen usually is have no business turning up noses at any UDFA who ends up taking starting reps on any NFL roster. Those guys help good teams win. You can't field a team full of just number one picks. You have to find and develop CFAs. We do a good job of it. Hitting on a few on the DL would be a very good thing for us right now.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

I've tried all weecouldn'tre about this roster fodder.

Reminds me of the intense Bill Nagy and Phil Costa chats.

I try to think of these guys as possibly the next Ronald Leary who couldn't get off the practice squad that first year despite playing behind some really bad players. They're still long shots but there is a chance!

 

[MWH1967]

I've tried all week to care about this roster fodder.

Reminds me of the intense Bill Nagy and Phil Costa chats.

Yeah, top to bottom my brother....Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves....

 

[Cowboyz88]

Future Pro-bowler? Unlikely, but he has something, and I understand the fretting over him.

It's called depth, because for years we didn't have any, and I like that we're back to churning the roster with guys who might have something instead of scrubs.

Besides, at this point, I'll take anyone who can boot Hayden off the team.

 

[Risen Star]

I remember being told Phil Costa was the next great thing by people... LMAOOOOOOOO!

The single worst starting player I've ever seen here. Not a starter because of injury, I'm talking penciled in week 1 starter. He was just so physically over matched in the NFL, which is why he's not in the league in anymore.

Yeah, I remember those guys too. All it told me is this is a guy who can't ever be taken seriously with anything he says about this team and it's players. He will prop up and rally around any player in the uniform, including a complete waste of space like Phil Costa.

 

[xwalker]

I try to think of these guys as possibly the next Ronald Leary who couldn't get off the practice squad that first year despite playing behind some really bad players. They're still long shots but there is a chance!

That would be the logical outlook, but you're replying to somebody that complained incessently that the Cowboys overdrafted Hitchens. In reality Hitchens turned out to be one of the best 4th round the Cowboys have made. They likely would have missed the playoffs without him.

 

[waving monkey]

I've tried all week to care about this roster fodder.

Reminds me of the intense Bill Nagy and Phil Costa chats.

I get the reference but there is more talent in Coleman
Certainly the team was in desperate need at their position in each case
so the focus was more intense.

 

[big dog cowboy]

The single worst starting player I've ever seen here. Not a starter because of injury, I'm talking penciled in week 1 starter. He was just so physically over matched in the NFL, which is why he's not in the league in anymore.

Who was worse Costa or Rob Petitti?

 

[Idgit]

The single worst starting player I've ever seen here. Not a starter because of injury, I'm talking penciled in week 1 starter. He was just so physically over matched in the NFL, which is why he's not in the league in anymore.

Yeah, I remember those guys too. All it told me is this is a guy who can't ever be taken seriously with anything he says about this team and it's players. He will prop up and rally around any player in the uniform, including a complete waste of space like Phil Costa.

You're really going to have to work on sourcing the stuff you throw against the wall to make it easier for the rest of us to point out exactly what you're making up. You're certainly entitled to believe any player you wish is the worst starter you've ever seen. He's not anywhere near on my list (though Torrin Tucker might be on it), but then, I don't tend to overreact emotionally as much as you do.

But you can't just make up stuff that can be readily googled, like why Phil Costa or Bill Nagy aren't in the league anymore. Costa not only made the team as an UDFA, but he displaced the starter, got injured, extended, and then replaced by a first round pick when he didn't want to take a pay cut and the Cowboys needed the cap room. He then signed on another team (2 years/$2.75M...not at the vet minimum) that was contending with the expressed intention of competing for their open starting position. He retired, on his own, for medical reasons.

I'm not 100% sure you're even trying to passively aggressively nod to me, since I obviously criticize any number of Cowboys players, but then we just have to guess when all you'll give us is make believe and innuendo. If you want to have an honest conversation about a player or players, though, by all means, let's have one. Just pick the topic and I"m happy to point out what I've said, where I think I was right, and where I think you were wrong. I'm even more than happy to point out when I'm actually wrong, which is a far cry from what you seem to prefer to do when specifically called out with direct links to any of a number of your own off-base posts.

As for the actual topic of the thread..here's what I liked about Davon Coleman: I've already mentioned the 35 bench reps on his pro day. That's impressive. I'm no fan of PFF, but I do remember he ended the preseason as the highest rated passrusher for a rookie interior DL by their rankings. I've mentioned these before, but @itsaboat made some really nice gifs of Davon's work in one of the early preseason games. Specifically here, here, and here. The spin move in the last one, in particular is pretty good. That said, I'm also not seeing a particular amount of angst about his current situation. All I'm seeing is people discussing the relative pros and cons of his being on the roster for us next season.

And, as a general comment: I know it's easy to say any given UDFA is a scrub, and it will turn out that it's overwhelmingly likely that guy never makes the team anyway. But anybody reading a Cowboys board in January after we're eliminated ought to be enough of a fan of the team that we can pick out the long shots we like and then talk about them as adults would, right? We can like some long-shots better than others, hope they continue to develop, and still not be surprised or embarrassed if they get displaced on the roster by an aging vet or a better young player? I'd like to think so, anyway. And when we do find a guy who costs us nothing, and he does work hard enough to displace a starter and give us some reps--especially at a position of need at a time when we're cap and draft-pick strapped....well, I still don't see the point of hating on the guy just to pretend he's a worse player than he actually is. Just enjoy the team, hope the picks pan out, and save the frustration for guys like Alex Barron--who had the skills of a first round pick and just didn't have the desire or ethic to ever bust a hump the way try-hard UDFAs do on every roster of every team every offseason. It's the guys who embarrass the franchize or who don't want to put in the work that frustrate me more than guys who work hard but aren't good enough to compete at the very highest level, anyway.

 

[visionary]

I try to think of these guys as possibly the next Ronald Leary who couldn't get off the practice squad that first year despite playing behind some really bad players. They're still long shots but there is a chance!

People bring up Leary in this context all the time and that is just wrong
Based on talent alone Leary would have been gone by rd 3
The only reason we got him as an UDFA was his knees not his lack of talent

Leary was not a long shot if he could stay healthy
Coleman is a VERY long shot

 

[Idgit]

People bring up Leary in this context all the time and that is just wrong
Based on talent alone Leary would have been gone by rd 3
The only reason we got him as an UDFA was his knees not his lack of talent

Leary was not a long shot if he could stay healthy
Coleman is a VERY long shot

I'd agree with this. Though Coleman himself was projected as high as ~6th round, wasn't he?

Once you get on the team, really, your draft slot doesn't matter all that much. Coleman was a guy who had a lot of buzz going on him in camp, too, so by the time he was heading into the season, he'd appreciated quite a bit by a lot of standards.

 

[visionary]

I'd agree with this. Though Coleman himself was projected as high as ~6th round, wasn't he?

Once you get on the team, really, your draft slot doesn't matter all that much. Coleman was a guy who had a lot of buzz going on him in camp, too, so by the time he was heading into the season, he'd appreciated quite a bit by a lot of standards.

Im not opposed to Coleman, DL that give effort can at times contribute more than more talented slugs
Reality is though that the coaches thought more highly of several other players so if he comes back to compete, great, if not I'm not losing any sleep over it

 

[Idgit]

Im not opposed to Coleman, DL that give effort can at times contribute more than more talented slugs
Reality is though that the coaches thought more highly of several other players so if he comes back to compete, great, if not I'm not losing any sleep over it

Well, that much is definitely true. There are guys like him available in every draft, and after it.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

People bring up Leary in this context all the time and that is just wrong
Based on talent alone Leary would have been gone by rd 3
The only reason we got him as an UDFA was his knees not his lack of talent

Leary was not a long shot if he could stay healthy
Coleman is a VERY long shot

You've got a point. Just swap out Leary with the undrafted Romo... how does that work for you?

 

[Kaiser]

People bring up Leary in this context all the time and that is just wrong
Based on talent alone Leary would have been gone by rd 3
The only reason we got him as an UDFA was his knees not his lack of talent
Leary was not a long shot if he could stay healthy
Coleman is a VERY long shot

Leary had plenty of knocks against him beyond his knee. He was from a small school and had never played OG before. If you punch his draft report into Google the first three (NFL, CBS and NFLDraftScout) had him in the 5th/6th for the first two and he was an UDFA on the NFL site. None mention his knee but teams no doubt knew about it. The NFL link says this:

"He could be selected in the later rounds out of team need, but he is more likely to get a shot as an undrafted free agent."

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ronald-leary?id=2533454

The comment about being taken in the 3rd came from Jerry Jones, who was ridiculed for saying it at the time. If he was a consensus 3rd, someone would have taken in the draft and he wouldn't have been a Cowboy. Dallas signed him as an UDFA by guaranteeing something like 100K on this rookie contract, so there wasn't a line of teams knocking down his door.

Similarly, Coleman projected as a 6th round pick. I didn't get all the draft pubs but have Dane Brugler's had him listed as a 6th Rounder and web searches show the same rating on other sites. His draft status was likely affected by his attitude/maturity, something listed in the scouting that hasn't been an issue as a pro (to our knowledge).

The point isn't that Coleman will contribute as much as Leary, or start next year or even make the team for that matter. The point is that Leary and Coleman were both practice squad players their first year and Dallas should do everything they can to develop guys like that, especially if they play defensive line.

 

[Kaiser]

You've got a point. Just swap out Leary with the undrafted Romo... how does that work for you?

And no one is predicting Coleman will start, just that he should be given a shot at a backup role next year.

 

[visionary]

You've got a point. Just swap out Leary with the undrafted Romo... how does that work for you?

So Coleman is the next Romo?

Bringing him up just shows how thin your argument is

Ever heard the phrase "exceptions make the rule"?

A zebra is a zebra for a reason

 

[visionary]

Leary had plenty of knocks against him beyond his knee. He was from a small school and had never played OG before. If you punch his draft report into Google the first three (NFL, CBS and NFLDraftScout) had him in the 5th/6th for the first two and he was an UDFA on the NFL site. None mention his knee but teams no doubt knew about it. The NFL link says this:

"He could be selected in the later rounds out of team need, but he is more likely to get a shot as an undrafted free agent."

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ronald-leary?id=2533454

The comment about being taken in the 3rd came from Jerry Jones, who was ridiculed for saying it at the time. If he was a consensus 3rd, someone would have taken in the draft and he wouldn't have been a Cowboy. Dallas signed him as an UDFA by guaranteeing something like 100K on this rookie contract, so there wasn't a line of teams knocking down his door.

Similarly, Coleman projected as a 6th round pick. I didn't get all the draft pubs but have Dane Brugler's had him listed as a 6th Rounder and web searches show the same rating on other sites. His draft status was likely affected by his attitude/maturity, something listed in the scouting that hasn't been an issue as a pro (to our knowledge).

The point isn't that Coleman will contribute as much as Leary, or start next year or even make the team for that matter. The point is that Leary and Coleman were both practice squad players their first year and Dallas should do everything they can to develop guys like that, especially if they play defensive line.

The link you posted does not work however it was not just jerry who said this
I remember that Leary was talked up as a very good player who could have gone in the early rounds if not for his knee issue

 

[Kaiser]

The link you posted does not work however it was not just jerry who said this
I remember that Leary was talked up as a very good player who could have gone in the early rounds if not for his knee issue

I don't remember anyone saying that except Jerry, but I could be wrong obviously. Jerry was ripped on the message boards for making the comment about Leary having a 3rd round grade, I remember that very well. (He was also ripped for saying they had a first round grade on DeMarco Murray).

You can find the NFL link by googling for Leary's draft scouting report. I looked at the links in the first couple of pages that came up and none had a grade higher than 5th round on Leary. Either way, I think the comparison of Leary to Coleman as practice squad guys who could develop is valid.

This is the text of the summary of the NFL draft report on Leary:


Overview

Leary is a big offensive lineman who was a three-year starter for Memphis. Although he played outside at tackle, he projects as an NFL guard, where his height won't be as much of a hindrance to him. He performed well in the run game and will always have the frame to compete against interior defensive linemen. He could be selected in the later rounds out of team need, but he is more likely to get a shot as an undrafted free agent.