U.S. Court of Appeals overturns Judge Doty on 2012 collusion case

[Manwiththeplan]

So your saying that participating in collusion is not shady?

I'm saying it's illegal. Murder and Stealing aren't shady, because the law is very clear regarding those two crimes. What the NFL did was illegal, hard to prove without them throwing it in the NFLPAs face, but illegal none the less. What Dallas, Washington and to a much lesser extent Oakland and New Orleans did was shady. Mainly because none of the teams accused disregarded the unspoken rule, by signing who ever they wanted, they simply structured contracts to benefit them, that they normally wouldn't have been able to do with out the uncapped year.

 

[hornitosmonster]

Good. Now it is time to hit Mara and the NFL with some huge fines. Collusion is illegal!

 

[speedkilz88]

I'm saying it's illegal. Murder and Stealing aren't shady, because the law is very clear regarding those two crimes. What the NFL did was illegal, hard to prove without them throwing it in the NFLPAs face, but illegal none the less. What Dallas, Washington and to a much lesser extent Oakland and New Orleans did was shady. Mainly because none of the teams accused disregarded the unspoken rule, by signing who ever they wanted, they simply structured contracts to benefit them, that they normally wouldn't have been able to do with out the uncapped year.

More than those did the same thing the league just didn't think they went as far. Someone showed back then that the Packers did a similar contract to Miles Austin's but they structured it slightly better and the nfl never said a peep.

 

[DuDa]

I'm saying it's illegal. Murder and Stealing aren't shady, because the law is very clear regarding those two crimes. What the NFL did was illegal, hard to prove without them throwing it in the NFLPAs face, but illegal none the less. What Dallas, Washington and to a much lesser extent Oakland and New Orleans did was shady. Mainly because none of the teams accused disregarded the unspoken rule, by signing who ever they wanted, they simply structured contracts to benefit them, that they normally wouldn't have been able to do with out the uncapped year.

This unwritten rule is called collusion and is highly illegal. There is nothing shady about not participating in collusion.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

This unwritten rule is called collusion and is highly illegal. There is nothing shady about not participating in collusion.

To me, they did participate, just not to the same extent. There were free agents that offseason that they could've signed pushing large amounts of money into the first year (the uncapped season). There was no attempt to sign Jahri Evans, Karlos Dansby, Julius Peppers, Antrel Rolle or any other player fitting a need. I'm not saying these were the moves to make, but clearly the Commanders and Cowboys were participating and just hoped that by going along for the most part, nothing would happen.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Fine, my only point is there is no good guy in this fight. The NFL was wrong and the Cowboys and Commanders went along and just hoped that their stepping out would go unnoticed.

 

[Califan007]

Fine, my only point is there is no good guy in this fight. The NFL was wrong and the Cowboys and Commanders went along and just hoped that their stepping out would go unnoticed.

The Cowboys and Commanders didn't just "hope" nobody would notice. They didn't give a rat's *** if anyone noticed. Nor should they have.

The reality is, Goodell and the NFL had absolutely NO authority whatsoever to punish or penalize any team for ANYTHING they did or did not do during the uncapped year. Whatever verbal "warnings" Goodell passed down the line were unenforceable by the league and therefore were empty threats. That's why they had to have the NFLPA also agree to the penalties...they knew that without the players union signing off on the penalties they couldn't do squat. And they had to strong-arm the union into agreeing to the penalties, threatening to both lower the salary cap--and thus the money going to the players--as well as threatening to pull promised concessions off the table if Smith didn't agree to the Skins and Cowboys penalties. Mara's imbecilic comments to the media back in 2012 highlights all of this when he said both teams "violated the spirit of the salary cap" and that they "took advantage of a one-year loophole". First, there IS no "spirit of the salary cap" in an uncapped year. Or if there is, it's called "collusion". Second, loopholes are, by definition, meant TO be taken advantage of lol...that's why they're called loopholes. You don't punish someone for taking advantage of something they have every legal right TO take advantage of.

So, yes, there are some good guys in this fight...I root for one, you root for the other.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The Cowboys and Commanders didn't just "hope" nobody would notice. They didn't give a rat's *** if anyone noticed. Nor should they have.

Then why not load more money into the uncapped year? they wanted to comply, but dallas didn't want to risk losing Miles Austin and Washington wanted to ensure they landed Hayensworth and retained Hall for more then they could afford

The reality is, Goodell and the NFL had absolutely NO authority whatsoever to punish or penalize any team for ANYTHING they did or did not do during the uncapped year. Whatever verbal "warnings" Goodell passed down the line were unenforceable by the league and therefore were empty threats. That's why they had to have the NFLPA also agree to the penalties...they knew that without the players union signing off on the penalties they couldn't do squat. And they had to strong-arm the union into agreeing to the penalties, threatening to both lower the salary cap--and thus the money going to the players--as well as threatening to pull promised concessions off the table if Smith didn't agree to the Skins and Cowboys penalties. Mara's imbecilic comments to the media back in 2012 highlights all of this when he said both teams "violated the spirit of the salary cap" and that they "took advantage of a one-year loophole". First, there IS no "spirit of the salary cap" in an uncapped year. Or if there is, it's called "collusion". Second, loopholes are, by definition, meant TO be taken advantage of lol...that's why they're called loopholes. You don't punish someone for taking advantage of something they have every legal right TO take advantage of.

So, yes, there are some good guys in this fight...I root for one, you root for the other.

I agree with all this, except the last line. I don't think for a second, Jerry or Dan had fairness in mind. If they did, they would've been more aggressive making moves, but they were complicit in the collusion as well imo.

 

[speedkilz88]

Then why not load more money into the uncapped year? they wanted to comply, but dallas didn't want to risk losing Miles Austin and Washington wanted to ensure they landed Hayensworth and retained Hall for more then they could afford



I agree with all this, except the last line. I don't think for a second, Jerry or Dan had fairness in mind. If they did, they would've been more aggressive making moves, but they were complicit in the collusion as well imo.

Maybe they had a self imposed limit on how much real money to spend that year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Then why not load more money into the uncapped year? they wanted to comply, but dallas didn't want to risk losing Miles Austin and Washington wanted to ensure they landed Hayensworth and retained Hall for more then they could afford



I agree with all this, except the last line. I don't think for a second, Jerry or Dan had fairness in mind. If they did, they would've been more aggressive making moves, but they were complicit in the collusion as well imo.

The Cowboys spent over the 'cap' and were penalized for it after the fact. i fail to see how that they were participating in teh collusion. If anything they ignored the trusts decisions.

The NFL trust is the one getting sued and while the individual clubs hold a stake, it is the trust that is being sued. Whether or not speculation of who participated in what is valid is besides the point. The NFL and not its constituents is being sued. Mara acting as an executive of the NFL trust said some really stupid and damning things.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Maybe they had a self imposed limit on how much real money to spend that year.

considering Danny's past, it's unlikely. Just look at the money spent the previous and following seasons. Even with Jerry who doesn't go on spending sprees every year, could've easily put some of Romo's, Ware's and others future money in 2010 to make things more manageable. Had Jerry done that, then I would say he truly disregarded the "rule"

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The Cowboys spent over the 'cap' and were penalized for it after the fact. i fail to see how that they were participating in teh collusion. If anything they ignored the trusts decisions.

The NFL trust is the one getting sued and while the individual clubs hold a stake, it is the trust that is being sued. Whether or not speculation of who participated in what is valid is besides the point. The NFL and not its constituents is being sued. Mara acting as an executive of the NFL trust said some really stupid and damning things.

Again, if they were ignoring the rule, why not just give out huge pay days in the uncapped year? Certainly would've been the smart thing to do, but they didn't want to strengthen the players hand before the lock out.

 

[Ren]

Damage is already done

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Again, if they were ignoring the rule, why not just give out huge pay days in the uncapped year? Certainly would've been the smart thing to do, but they didn't want to strengthen the players hand before the lock out.

'Huge payday' is a nearly meaningless generality. The Cowboys and Commanders both accounted for more money than would be payed out in a typical capped year for the uncapped year. You can make up categories like 'huge payday' and insert motivation all you like but it really doesn't speak to much.

 

[Cowboysfan1975]

Mara was acting as a the owner of the Giants when he made the ludicrous penalty's against the Boys and Skins. I think the Giants organization should be punished as their owner was involved in wrong doing.

 

[Bullflop]

Seems to me it's a pretty sad state of affairs when the NFL and its owners and players perpetrate dishonorable acts so as to benefit by the bogus penalties imposed on two of their member teams. It just goes to illustrate what a greedy organization the entire league and its members have become when their perfectly willing to betray one another for financial advantage. It's shamefully pathetic.

 

[burmafrd]

what would be justice is that all the cap stolen by the league would be taken from the Giants.

 

[Crown Royal]

NFL could add 5 million in cap space to Dallas, after all Dallas did not pay out 5 million Dallas had 5 million subtracted from their cap

I mean, sure, they could vote to do that. But why would they? Kindness of their hearts?

 

[slaga]

I'm saying it's illegal. Murder and Stealing aren't shady, because the law is very clear regarding those two crimes. What the NFL did was illegal, hard to prove without them throwing it in the NFLPAs face, but illegal none the less. What Dallas, Washington and to a much lesser extent Oakland and New Orleans did was shady. Mainly because none of the teams accused disregarded the unspoken rule, by signing who ever they wanted, they simply structured contracts to benefit them, that they normally wouldn't have been able to do with out the uncapped year.

I don't see what Dallas, Washington, Oakland or New Orleans did that was shady. The uncapped year was intentionally wrote into the previous CBA by the NFLPA to get the owners to the bargaining table in good faith before that CBA expired. The owners agreed to an uncapped year. What was shady was the collusion and the "Spirit of the Cap" that Mara was talking about. Those 4 teams worked within the CBA agreed upon by both the NFLPA and the NFL.

 

[Nova]

More than those did the same thing the league just didn't think they went as far. Someone showed back then that the Packers did a similar contract to Miles Austin's but they structured it slightly better and the nfl never said a peep.

I think that one turned out to be misreported. I believe it was for Nick Collins. Same goes for Julius Peppers.

Overall it's hard to deny what we did was excessive and clearly an attempt to get a leg up on the league in future years. The NFL has also stated that we didn't do anything wrong.

It's a really tricky situation that should be looked at closely.