Urban talk Red Bryant

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by garyo1954, Jun 12, 2021.

  1. Typhus

    Typhus Captain Catfish

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    I have Urban behind Gallimore heading into camp, and look at him more as depth/comp,, its just my take and I understood when I posted that it would and should be taken as just an opinion.
     
  2. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    Ok, it's correct that Gallimore is ahead of Urban at DT on the depth chart, but not that he's going to kick out to that DE spot.

    This DE/Red Bryant role is a depth role. We're talking about something that's going to happen 5-10 plays a game.
     
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  3. Typhus

    Typhus Captain Catfish

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    Agree, the snap count will be minimal,,, just stating what a pre camp depth chart will probably look like.
    At the moment, Gallimore should be ahead of Urban in that yet to be defined role on the edge in certain BIG packages.
     
  4. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    Lol, we're talking in circles here. But no, that's not how Gallimore is going to be used. He's 6'2", this guy should be tall and long, which Urban is.
     
  5. Typhus

    Typhus Captain Catfish

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    Urban was brought in to see if he has the ability to expand Quinns' D if he could find a 5 tech.. thats Urbans value.
    Maybe @xwalker or @AsthmaField could chime in here with their thoughts, I will gladly eat crow.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  6. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Urban at the "Base" DE position on run downs.

    It is easier to think of this defense in base as a 3-4 even if they have 4 DL with their hand down.

    In a 3-4 look in base (DLaw and Gregory at OLB):

    .....................OT.....OG.....OC.....OG.....OT.......................
    DLaw..........Urban.............NT.............34DE..........Gregory

    ......................LB....................LB..................................


    If Gregory put his hand down it would be 4 DL but still more of typical 3-4 alignment.

    Urban plays the run as his top priority; whereas, the other 34DE will often shoot the gap if his read indicates it is likely a pass.

    In Nickel Gallimore will play 3tech DT. In base Gallimore will likely play that position I've shown as 34DE which is really a DT if Gregory puts this hand down.

    It really about the techniques more than the alignment.
     
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  7. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    This is very encouraging.

    It at least tells me that Quinn is getting down and dirty with the players and getting his philosophy out there.

    Mike Nolan with his glasses down his nose approach never struck me as a particularly strong leader. Even before the Tabasco incident.
     
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  8. AsthmaField

    AsthmaField Outta bounds

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    I’m not sure why I didn’t get a notification from you tagging me in this post… but I didn’t.

    Anyway, my opinion is just my opinion and frankly, none of us know for sure who will be playing where. However, for what it’s worth, If Gallimore plays in Quinn’s 34 look (run down) defense, I see him as a DT in that defense with Urban playing the 5T “big end” spot. Although, Gallimore could certainly play the big end a few snaps if he had to, I don’t think that’s the role that Quinn envisions for him. If he gets snaps in that 34 look, it likely will be at the DT spot next to LEO like xWalker shows,

    In the nickel, which will be played the majority of the time, Gallimore will probably be the 3T DT in some type of rotation, although it isn’t out of the question that he might get some snaps at the 1T.

    It is also possible (IMO) that Gallimore doesn’t even get many snaps in the 34 look and instead primarily gets his snaps as the nickel 3T pass rusher… which is up to 70% of the snaps anyway.

    At this point, that’s my guess.
     
  9. GimmeTheBall!

    GimmeTheBall! Junior College Transfer

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    There is a lot in what you say,
     
  10. Typhus

    Typhus Captain Catfish

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    Peeps take to much stock into roster alignment, and they read to much into the Camp roster depth as being legit, but its just a depth chart going in, this defense is very hard to figure out at this point from fan perspective.
    We got DPRs, we can call them whatever we want, fact of the matter is nobody knows, not even Quinn at this point what he has with this group.
    Randy Gregory - yes he leads the list of best DPRs
    Golston - yes I put the rook here for a reason, watch how fast we search for depth, names we recognize.
    Anae - Everyone counting this man out, he didnt win the Morris award because of his two inch arms,, this man can turn a corner, Ive seen him do it.
    Rondell Carter - Not sure where he fits, shorter frame at 6'3" and he will walk into camp at 275lbs. This will be interesting how Quinn choses to use him, and might be some foreshadowing on Quinns actual scheme,, watch how this player is used early in camp.
    Azur Kamara - Everyone forgot about Azur but he didnt,, I just put that last bit in there for effect, I admit it,, but he is on the roster and should be discussed, he is deserving of that.
     
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  11. Floatyworm

    Floatyworm The Labeled One

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    When are we ever gonna learn the 3-4 defense is dead? :banghead:
     
  12. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    My first thought: Why do we care what Urban Meyers thinks about Red Bryant? :laugh:
     
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  13. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily directed at you, more of a general comment, but at what point does the verbiage change for “base D”? Base D should be used for the formation that will be used most often in my opinion. Base D will be the nickel and the formation you showed above MIGHT get used 25% of the time. That base 3-4 look would get us slaughtered Vs spread offenses, which is more or less 90% of the league at this point
     
  14. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    That is a question that comes up from fans often.

    In coaching lexicon "base" means run downs.

    Many people say "I'm going to get a coke" when in reality they buy a Pepsi/Dr. Pepper/Sprite/etc..

    Coaches are going call run defense "base" even if they play Nickel 99% of the snaps.

    The base of a building is not the largest percentage of the building...
     
  15. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Tell Belichick...
     
  16. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    Yes pre 2010 something called a “run down” may have existed making the 4-3/3-4 base defense…but in the present day nfl there’s no such thing as a “run down”, unless you’re referring to 4th and inches.

    I fully understand that it’s part of the “football langue”, im just pointing out that from a purely logical standpoint it doesn’t make sense to keep saying it in 2021. And I’d be surprised if it doesn’t change in the next 5-10 years
     
  17. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    • I like to focus on the general concepts that D-Coordinators are trying to accomplish with different defensive schemes.
      • At the core of defensive football is trying to balance out the ability to play both good run defense and good pass defense.
        • D-Coordinators need to accomplish this with a core set of players.
        • There is not enough talent available to swap out all 11 players on run downs vs passing downs.
        • D-C's need to make the same core set of players better.
        • They need to make pass rushers better run defenders and run defenders better pass rushers.
      • When a 4-3 defense switches from Nickel to Base, they remove the Nickel CB and replace him with a Strong Side LB.
        • This really only changes that 1 position if the other 10 starters all remain on the field.
      • When a 3-4 team switches from Nickel to Base, they remove the Nickel CB and replace him with a 3-4 NT.
        • This actually makes the same DTs better run defenders because they move towards the outside and become 3-4 DEs.
    • Another way to envision it is with regards to the Rams 3-4 defense.
      • When Wade Phillips was hired by the Rams in 2017, he implement his 3-4 defense, with DEs:
        • Michael Brockers: 6-5, 322, 35" arms
        • Aaron Donald: 6-1, 290, 32" arms
      • Brockers played the position similar to Quinn's "Base End".
        • Gallimore is more likely to play the position more similar to AD's position in the 3-4.
      • Aaron Donald was then the 3tech in Nickel where he dominated with his quickness.
      • The beauty of Wade's 3-4 was that it moved AD towards the outside on run downs.
        • That put less pounding on AD in run defense.
        • Many 4-3 D-Coordinators move a big 4-3 DE to 3tech DT in Nickel which is a similar concept to some extent.
    • Summary:
      • Even if the Cowboys have 4 DL with their hand down in base, Urban's position will be similar to Brockers' position in the Wade Phillips 3-4.
     
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  18. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    • Nickel
    • The standard Nickel is a 4-2-5; although, a 3-3-5 is also a version of Nickel.
    • In the 4-2-5, there are 2 different DT alignments.
      • A standard 4-3 type of DT alignment with a 1tech and 3tech.
        • Could be run or pass.
        • Being is Nickel does not mean only passing downs.
        • It is the normal defense vs 3 WR offensive personnel.
        • The Rams played over 90% of snaps in 3 Wide in 2018 and they had a dominant running game.
      • A double 3tech alignment.
        • Defense expecting pass.
        • Primary alignment on 3rd and long.
    • Reference to a Standard 4-3
    • Types of DTs in a standard 4-3 (From heaviest to lightest weight):
      • Base Defense 1tech
      • Nickel Defense 1tech
      • Base Defense 3tech
      • Nickel Defense 3tech
    • Obviously starters need to be reasonably good at both run/pass defense.
      • In a standard 4-3 Gallimore would be best as a 3tech in either Nickel/Base or a Nickel 1tech.
      • With a 3-4 Base, Gallimore likely plays the "small" DE (The Aaron Donald position); although...
        • Gallimore is big enough to play the big "Base" DE position despite limited length.
     
  19. dwmyers

    dwmyers Well-Known Member

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    To be expected. If Smart Football is to be believed, then since at least 2012 Belichick's 4-3 uses the Seattle fronts.

    D-
     
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