Walters Football: 2019 DL draft could be legendary

[Sydla]

One of his acumen? Absolutely.

Replacing one of, if not the, best DL coaches in the NFL is not some simple task.

He's overrated as a DL coach, at this point in his career, by many here.

For all his prowess, this DL has been largely average for much of his run here. Even last year, when people praised our pass rush, we finished dead middle in the NFL in sacks and pressures.

I don't believe it would be as hard to replace him as a DL coach as you think.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

He's overrated as a DL coach, at this point in his career, by many here.

For all his prowess, this DL has been largely average for much of his run here. Even last year, when people praised our pass rush, we finished dead middle in the NFL in sacks and pressures.

I don't believe it would be as hard to replace him as a DL coach as you think.

Yeah that's a lazy way of looking at it.

Look what he started out with. Looking at it that way is super lazy and doesnt bring any merit. There hasn't been one DL player that came here when Rod was in charge, and left being a better player. Not one.

Rod got here in 2013

30 year old Hatcher's 1st season under Rod? 11 sacks. He didnt have more than 5.5 sacks in any other season of his career.

Selvies first year undee him? 7 sacks. Selvie never had more tha. 3 sacks in any other year of his career.

Mincey had 6 sacks under Rod in 2014, his 2nd best output of his career.

Jack Crawford has 0 sacks in the three years he hasnt played with the Cowboys. He had 9.5 sacks under Rod.

Terrell McClain had by far his best season under Rod and has failed everywhere else he's been.

He's developed Lawrence into one of the best pass rushers in the league. Which is normally held by top 10 picks.

He developed Irving from a UDFA into a player that on a per snap basis is one of the most produxtive interior pass rushers in the league.

Mayowa had 2 sacks total his 3 seasons before getting here. He had 6 sacks in one season under Rod playing bare minimum snaps.

He also had a rookie 3rd rounder get 5 sacks in his first season with Rod.

So yeah, pretty obvious it's not others overrating. It's on your end.

Even Datone Jones showed more in his brief time at the end of last season than he has before.
And Taco's progress over the year was obvious as well.

 

[Sydla]

Yeah that's a lazy way of looking at it.

Look what he started out with. Looking at it that way is super lazy and doesnt bring any merit. There hasn't been one DL player that came here when Rod was in charge, and left being a better player. Not one.

Rod got here in 2013

30 year old Hatcher's 1st season under Rod? 11 sacks. He didnt have more than 5.5 sacks in any other season of his career.

Selvies first year undee him? 7 sacks. Selvie never had more tha. 3 sacks in any other year of his career.

Mincey had 6 sacks under Rod in 2014, his 2nd best output of his career.

Jack Crawford has 0 sacks in the three years he hasnt played with the Cowboys. He had 9.5 sacks under Rod.

Terrell McClain had by far his best season under Rod and has failed everywhere else he's been.

He's developed Lawrence into one of the best pass rushers in the league. Which is normally held by top 10 picks.

He developed Irving from a UDFA into a player that on a per snap basis is one of the most produxtive interior pass rushers in the league.

Mayowa had 2 sacks total his 3 seasons before getting here. He had 6 sacks in one season under Rod playing bare minimum snaps.

He also had a rookie 3rd rounder get 5 sacks in his first season with Rod.

So yeah, pretty obvious it's not others overrating. It's on your end.

Even Datone Jones showed more in his brief time at the end of last season than he has before.
And Taco's progress over the year was obvious as well.

The reality is there are other good DL coaches out there and if Marinelli were to leave, and they hired a quality DC, I don't think we'd have to worry too much about getting a competent DL coach in here.

Losing Marinelli, the DL coach, is like 56th on my list of potential offseason worries for 2019.

Oh and let's note, part of the reason he hasn't had a lot to work with, as you claim, is BECAUSE HE'S DICTATED to the front office what he wants in his DL.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I get it, you are dazzled by Rod. The reality is there are other good DL coaches out there and if Marinelli were to leave, and they hired a quality DC, I don't think we'd have to worry too much about getting a competent DL coach in here.

Losing Marinelli, the DL coach, is like 56th on my list of potential offseason worries for 2019.

Oh and let's note, part of the reason he hasn't had a lot to work with is BECAUSE HE'S DICTATED to the front office what he wants in his DL.

Just opinion on your part that has already been proven wrong.

What do you have to refute what was said? I laid it out very clearly for you. It's obvious he's an elite DL coach. I'd like to see any coach of any position have 10 guys in a four year span have career years, all while not having a single player from that group leave and produce. It's jaw dropping how little our DL free agents have produced once leaving.

And your last paragraph is completed made up, but at least you recognize he didnt have anything to work with early on.

You say there's all these DL coaches that could replace him, yet you give no names? That's peculiar. And we don't want "competent" we want ELITE, like Rod.

 

[Sydla]

I get it, I proved you wrong so youre gonna type out a few paragraphs of stuff that doesn't have a single fact in it. Just opinion on your part that has already been proven wrong.

What do you have to refute what was said? I laid it out very clearly for you. It's obvious he's an elite DL coach.

And your last paragraph is completed made up, but at least you recognize he didnt have anything to work with early on.

You say there's all these DL coaches that could replace him, yet you give no names? That's peculiar. And we don't want "competent" we want ELITE, like Rod.

It's hard to take one seriously when they argue in such extremes............. that we likely couldn't replace Marinelli as a DL coach. Marinelli, as a DL coach, is not irreplaceable. It's poppycock to suggest otherwise. Frankly, this organization could use the purge if this is another non-playoff year this year.

Further your "analysis" contained some real stretches, such as when you said Marinelli turned Lawrence into an elite edge rusher something really only reserved for Top 10 picks. I looked at 2017, the Top 10 pass rushers, guess how many were Top 10 picks? 2. That's hardly "normally reserved for Top 10 picks".

And LOL at your contention that Marinelli doesn't dictate to the front office what he wants in his DL. That comment right there shows you are simply ultra defensive of Marinelli for some reason. I mean the reason we invest so little in the 1 Tech, is because of Marinelli, for example.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Further your "analysis" contained some real stretches, such as when you said Marinelli turned Lawrence into an elite edge rusher something really only reserved for Top 10 picks. I looked at 2017, the Top 10 pass rushers, guess how many were Top 10 picks? 2. That's hardly "normally reserved for Top 10 picks.

It's hard to take someone serious when you lay out a bevy of proof to prove something, and they knit pick something as small as that, and STILL don't prpvide anything to prove their original point. Not one single thing. That's when you know they don't have anything to prove their point.

And it's sad that you said some real stretches, and yet that was far from a stretch lmao.

Bosa, Miller, Mack, Ansah, Clowney were all top 10 picks. Lmao. Brandon Graham dropped to 13 and Eagles traded up from 24 for him. And they make up the majority of the best pass rushers. So even your knit picking is BS.

So again, show me ANY proof that Rod isn't elite. Jist give me something. What you're showing now makes it very hard to take you seriously.

1. In four years he produced 5 career years out of journeymen, and developed two players into tops at their position.
2. There hasnt been a player come in and play better after leaving us.
3. Throw out all those names that'd youd take to replace Rod.

Weak.

 

[Sydla]

It's hard to take someone serious when you lay out a bevy of proof to prove something, and they knit pick something as small as that, and STILL don't prpvide anything to prove their original point. Not one single thing. That's when you know they don't have anything to prove their point.

And it's sad that you said some real stretches, and yet that was far from a stretch lmao.

Bosa, Miller, Mack, Ansah, Clowney were all top 10 picks. Lmao. And they make up the majority of the best pass rushers. So even your knit picking is BS.

So again, show me ANY proof that Rod isn't elite. Jist give me something. What you're showing now makes it very hard to take you seriously.

1. In four years he produced 4 career years out of journeymen, and developed two players into tops at their position.
2. There hasnt been a player come in and play better after leaving us.
3. Throw out all those names that'd youd take to replace Rod.

Weak.

I see a lot of words that doesn't disprove the original point.

It's quite simple. Rod Marinelli is not irreplaceable as a DL coach. Now you can believe whatever you want. You can believe that our DL play will fall off the map if he leaves. You can believe it would be impossible to field a good DL without him. You can believe that no coach we could hire would be as effective as him. But that's on you. I don't have the fatalistic outlook on DL coaches that you apparently do.

You do get credit for the ridiculous rebuttal that comes up every time replacing a coach comes up - "Dude, who would you hire?" or "Name a coach that's available that's better."

It's not my job to find the next DL coach if we need one. I simply operate under the very logical premise that losing Marinelli would not be this massive loss that you claim it would be. Largely because for all his positives, he's had some real negatives too.

And in reality, he's not taking a demotion to DL coach anyway. So with that in mind, I won't lament his retiring (or firing or taking another DC job) if it removes him from the DC position here.

 

[Sydla]

I also liked how you selected the "best" pass rushers, in your opinion, who all happened to be Top 10 picks. Clowney is a nice edge guy but he's not an elite edge player, for example. He's never had more than 9.5 sacks in a season.

I simply looked at factual evidence. The Top 10 sack leaders for 2017. Only 2 came from Top 10 picks.

I looked at 2016 too.......... Guess how many of the Top 10 in sacks were Top 10 picks? Again, 2.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I see a lot of words that doesn't disprove the original point.

It's quite simple. Rod Marinelli is not irreplaceable as a DL coach. Now you can believe whatever you want. You can believe that our DL play will fall off the map if he leaves. You can believe it would be impossible to field a good DL without him. You can believe that no coach we could hire would be as effective as him. But that's on you. I don't have the fatalistic outlook on DL coaches that you apparently do.

You do get credit for the ridiculous rebuttal that comes up every time replacing a coach comes up - "Dude, who would you hire?" or "Name a coach that's available that's better."

It's not my job to find the next DL coach if we need one. I simply operate under the very logical premise that losing Marinelli would not be this massive loss that you claim it would be. Largely because for all his positives, he's had some real negatives too.

And in reality, he's not taking a demotion to DL coach anyway. So with that in mind, I won't lament his retiring (or firing or taking another DC job) if it removes him from the DC position here.

Gah no substance. Such a waste of your time and mine.

Not going to waste my time anymore. Have a good one.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I also liked how you selected the "best" pass rushers, in your opinion, who all happened to be Top 10 picks. Clowney is a nice edge guy but he's not an elite edge player, for example. He's never had more than 9.5 sacks in a season.

I simply looked at factual evidence. The Top 10 sack leaders for 2017. Only 2 came from Top 10 picks.

I looked at 2016 too.......... Guess how many of the Top 10 in sacks were Top 10 picks? Again, 2.

That's sack leaders, not best edge rushers lmao, which was the criteria.

 

[Sydla]

That's sack leaders, not best edge rushers lmao, which was the criteria.

LOL.

OK.

So just come up with a subjective list of best edge rushers that just happens to support your claim?

Speaking of wasting time.

 

[NFLJUNKY]

And how many play off wins? Isn't THAT the only goal. Ok, here comes the excuses....5-4-3-2-1

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

"I don't think we need Ed Oliver. We just signed Antwuan Woods." --- Maranelli

 

[waving monkey]

Yeah that's a lazy way of looking at it.

Look what he started out with. Looking at it that way is super lazy and doesnt bring any merit. There hasn't been one DL player that came here when Rod was in charge, and left being a better player. Not one.

Rod got here in 2013

30 year old Hatcher's 1st season under Rod? 11 sacks. He didnt have more than 5.5 sacks in any other season of his career.

Selvies first year undee him? 7 sacks. Selvie never had more tha. 3 sacks in any other year of his career.

Mincey had 6 sacks under Rod in 2014, his 2nd best output of his career.

Jack Crawford has 0 sacks in the three years he hasnt played with the Cowboys. He had 9.5 sacks under Rod.

Terrell McClain had by far his best season under Rod and has failed everywhere else he's been.

He's developed Lawrence into one of the best pass rushers in the league. Which is normally held by top 10 picks.

He developed Irving from a UDFA into a player that on a per snap basis is one of the most produxtive interior pass rushers in the league.

Mayowa had 2 sacks total his 3 seasons before getting here. He had 6 sacks in one season under Rod playing bare minimum snaps.

He also had a rookie 3rd rounder get 5 sacks in his first season with Rod.

So yeah, pretty obvious it's not others overrating. It's on your end.

Even Datone Jones showed more in his brief time at the end of last season than he has before.
And Taco's progress over the year was obvious as well.

Thank you,what I can't understand is why this isn't acknowledged by more folks?

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Thank you,what I can't understand is why this isn't acknowledged by more folks?

I don't understand it either. It's odd. Nick Hayden was a starter when Rod got here, which is absolutely bonkers to me.

It takes less than 3 mins to realize that Rod increases the play out of nearly all his DLmen, while no players produce better after leaving Rod.

That's why other teams should be conservative when trying to sign Irving next year. There's a high probability the next team wont get nearly as much out of him as Rod does.

 

[Sydla]

No one said Rod is a bad DL coach. No one said he's not a good DL coach.

But the premise here is that he's basically irreplaceable as a DL coach. That's ridiculous.

Let's put it another way for you guys. Is Marinelli that great a DL coach that you would stomach keeping him as DC even if he shows he's not getting the job done as the DC? In other words, there's no chance he would ever just be the DL coach here. So because of that, are you fine with then keeping him as DC as long as you get him to coach the DL?

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

No one said Rod is a bad DL coach. No one said he's not a good DL coach.

But the premise here is that he's basically irreplaceable as a DL coach. That's ridiculous.

Let's put it another way for you guys. Is Marinelli that great a DL coach that you would stomach keeping him as DC even if he shows he's not getting the job done as the DC? In other words, there's no chance he would ever just be the DL coach here. So because of that, are you fine with then keeping him as DC as long as you get him to coach the DL?

That's not what is being discussed at all, not even remotely. DC has not been brought up one time during the the conversation. Your initial comment was that "he's overrated as a DL coach on here" which has bern been proven incorrect.

He is irreplaceable in the sense we won't get a DL coach that is as good as Rod. That was the entire point. Maybe that's the disconnect and why you're not understanding. Can we find another DL coach? Yes of course. Will he be as good as Rod? Absolutely not.

 

[Sydla]

That's not what is being discussed at all, not even remotely. DC has not been brought up one time during the the conversation. Your initial comment was that "he's overrated as a DL coach on here" which has bern been proven incorrect.

He is irreplaceable in the sense we won't get a DL coach that is as good as Rod. That was the entire point. Maybe that's the disconnect and why you're not understanding. Can we find another DL coach? Yes of course. Will he be as good as Rod? Absolutely not.

He's overrated in the sense some of you act like he's the greatest DL coach ever and it would be impossible to replace him. Both statements are exaggerations.

And my hypothesis was to further understand how great you think he is. Marinelli is the DC as well as the DL coach. If he's that great a DL coach and you would not want to lose him, then does that mean you are OK with him being the DC even if he's underperforming in that role?

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

He's overrated in the sense some of you act like he's the greatest DL coach ever and it would be impossible to replace him. Both statements are exaggerations.

And my hypothesis was to further understand how great you think he is. Marinelli is the DC as well as the DL coach. If he's that great a DL coach and you would not want to lose him, then does that mean you are OK with him being the DC even if he's underperforming in that role?

The chances of finding a DL coach as good as him is less than 5%. I still have not been given one name of a DL coach who is as good/or as highly touted as Rod is. So if even the guys who think he can be replaced, can't come up with one single replacement for the subject person it sure is telling. They simply aren't exaggerations whatsoever. Finding a coach that gets the best out of every player he gets his hands on is special. You cant replace special.

He's not underperforming in either role. Once that becomes an issue I would like to keep him on as strictly a DL coach.

 

[Sydla]

The chances of finding a DL coach as good as him is less than 5%. I still have not been given one name of a DL coach who is as good/or as highly touted as Rod is. So if even the guys who think he can be replaced, can't come up with one single replacement for the subject person it sure is telling. They simply aren't exaggerations whatsoever. Finding a coach that gets the best out of every player he gets his hands on is special. You cant replace special.

He's not underperforming in either role. Once that becomes an issue I would like to keep him on as strictly a DL coach.

You want names of DL coaches that are as well respected as Marinelli? Pepper Johnson is one. Eric Washington is another highly thought of DL coach (although he's now the DC in Carolina). Patterson, the guy in Minnesota, is another well thought of DL coach who has built a legit DL in Minnesota.

So yes, there are quality DL coaches out there and losing Marinelli wouldn't send this franchise into a tailspin.

And Marinelli is never staying as just the DL coach.