Want to ask an honest question about Jerry

[Hostile]

I think they got the start already. Last year a wildcard birth and a playoff game that came down to the wire. This year a divisional round birth and a playoff game that came down to the wire. They don't need to take baby steps from here on out. They can actually take bigger strides. So, just one measly playoff win will not be enough. It will take winning two and gaining a Superbowl appearance. And if you make it to the big game, why don't you just go ahead and win it?

That's my thoughts exactly. I haven't had Super Bowl expectations since March 1994 when Jimmy was 86ed. I have them again and nothing less than getting there will suffice. Once there, I always expect to win it. I'll be satisfied with getting there, nothing less will. Winning it will be above expectations.

 

[Mash]

It gets you more than we got the last 11 years.

whippee doo....

Ask the Eagles what they got....with all those playoff victories......

They would trade 11 yrs of pretenders for 1 super bowl.

And Yes....Jerry listened to Jimmy and Bill and all the others....but Jerry still has the final say and is the GM.

right?

Jerry as GM.....3 Super Bowls......how are the other GM's doing? Very few have more.

With your logic.....Bellicheat is the reason Big Bill ever won a SB....should we discredit Bill because he hasnt won squat without Bellicheat at his side?

 

[gbrittain]

Jerry's biggest mistake was letting Jimmy Johnson go. If Jimmy had stayed and Dallas wins at least another Super Bowl before the inevitable spiral to mediocrity or worse, Jerry would not take near the heat he does now.

The Jerry/Jimmy split at the height of a dynasty that could have very well went on to become the undisputed most dominant dynasty in NFL history will forever haunt Jerry.

Jerry the GM made many errors post Jimmy, but one fact that often gets overlooked is that Dallas is the only team in the history of the NFL to have to transition from a dynasty without Free Agency to a team trying to sustain a dynasty with Free Agency. Talk about being between a rock and hardplace.

 

[Doomsday101]

Jerry's biggest mistake was letting Jimmy Johnson go. If Jimmy had stayed and Dallas wins at least another Super Bowl before the inevitable spiral to mediocrity or worse, Jerry would not take near the heat he does now.

The Jerry/Jimmy split at the height of a dynasty that could have very well went on to become the undisputed most dominant dynasty in NFL history will forever haunt Jerry.

Jerry the GM made many errors post Jimmy, but one fact that often gets overlooked is that Dallas is the only team in the history of the NFL to have to transition from a dynasty without Free Agency to a team trying to sustain a dynasty with Free Agency. Talk about being between a rock and hardplace.

Jimmy did not want to stay and even in a recent interview Jimmy stated he would have left regardless of the falling out with Jerry. Jimmy has never coached any place for more than 5 years because his style of coaching and the strain it puts on him as well as a team. I would have loved Jimmy staying as well but I think even if things were great between the 2 he may have stayed 1 or 2 more years at the most. Jimmy will never be a guy who will coach one team for 15 or 20 years.

 

[CoCo]

If this topic could be kept off the extremes it could be a pretty good one with a large amount of agreement.

I think most folks here probably agree on the following.

1. Jimmy and Bill are the best two HC's, and HC personnel guys we've had during Jones era.
2. The personnel moves post Jimmy and pre Bill were below average overall. Embarrassing some years, okay in others like 1998 (6th) & 2002 (6th?).
3. Bill and Jerry each had some say in the personnel moves from 2003 - 2006. Its not all Bill, its not all Jerry. Per the rumors about TO, Eddie George, Ware vs Merrimen, Newman vs Kevin Williams, etc.
4. It takes cap $, higher draft picks and some luck to have a great offseason, ie the offseason playing field was not even during all of Jerry Jones years.

From the above, doesn't it also stand to reason that...

1. Larry Lacewell didn't have final GM say on personnel anymore than Bill Parcells did, ie Jerry had influence in both.
2. The degree of difficulty for the Lacewell/Jones drafts was overall greater than those of Bill & Jimmy's.
3. The bad drafts were a combination of low picks, Lacewell, inexperienced Jones, poor cap situation, generally speaking.
4. The really good drafts overall had a positive combination of Jimmy and or Bill, relatively higher picks, relatively more picks, a more experienced Jerry and a better cap situation.

Its not all one thing or another. Its not all one person or another. Good or bad. So going forward...

I don't expect Lacewell having an office at VR nor Dave Campo coaching our secondary are going to signal a return to the era between Jimmy & Bill.

I think with a more experienced Jerry Jones as GM (on draft day, FA's, picking HC's, managing the cap, etc) we have a decent shot at remaining a competitive team.

To think otherwise is IMO extremism.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't know where you get this. I have always given Jerry credit for hiring Jimmy and BP and giving them enough authority to succeed and for listening to them.

I just think it's a matter of realizing that it's not all Jerry or not all Jimmy and Bill. Jerry is the constent. When Wade moves on and Garrett(or whomever) gets there chance at the wheel, Jerry will still be there. Jerry is in it for the long haul. In that respect, I think you give Jerry his due.

 

[Doomsday101]

If this topic could be kept off the extremes it could be a pretty good one with a large amount of agreement.

I think most folks here probably agree on the following.

1. Jimmy and Bill are the best two HC's, and HC personnel guys we've had during Jones era.
2. The personnel moves post Jimmy and pre Bill were below average overall. Embarrassing some years, okay in others like 1998 (6th) & 2002 (6th?).
3. Bill and Jerry each had some say in the personnel moves from 2003 - 2006. Its not all Bill, its not all Jerry. Per the rumors about TO, Eddie George, Ware vs Merrimen, Newman vs Kevin Williams, etc.
4. It takes cap $, higher draft picks and some luck to have a great offseason, ie the offseason playing field was not even during all of Jerry Jones years.

From the above, doesn't it also stand to reason that...

1. Larry Lacewell didn't have final GM say on personnel anymore than Bill Parcells did, ie Jerry had influence in both.
2. The degree of difficulty for the Lacewell/Jones drafts was overall greater than those of Bill & Jimmy's.
3. The bad drafts were a combination of low picks, Lacewell, inexperienced Jones, poor cap situation, generally speaking.
4. The really good drafts overall had a positive combination of Jimmy and or Bill, relatively higher picks, relatively more picks, a more experienced Jerry and a better cap situation.

Its not all one thing or another. Its not all one person or another. Good or bad. So going forward...

I don't expect Lacewell having an office at VR nor Dave Campo coaching our secondary are going to signal a return to the era between Jimmy & Bill.

I think with a more experienced Jerry Jones as GM (on draft day, FA's, picking HC's, managing the cap, etc) we have a decent shot at remaining a competitive team.

To think otherwise is IMO extremism.

Very good I enjoyed reading that and agree with you.

 

[gbrittain]

Jimmy did not want to stay and even in a recent interview Jimmy stated he would have left regardless of the falling out with Jerry. Jimmy has never coached any place for more than 5 years because his style of coaching and the strain it puts on him as well as a team. I would have loved Jimmy staying as well but I think even if things were great between the 2 he may have stayed 1 or 2 more years at the most. Jimmy will never be a guy who will coach one team for 15 or 20 years.

I have no disagreements as a matter of fact I agree 100%. However, if he stays even two more years that could have very well have been two more Super Bowls. Of course that is speculation.

However, when you are on top of the world you look like a Donkey when you are at least half as guilty as Jimmy for the breakup.

Jimmy is no Saint in all of this...definitely not saying that. Jerry is the Boss and should have done more to make the relationship work, but he let his ego get in the way instead.

 

[InmanRoshi]

What is extremeist about being pessimistic about a man primarily responsible for a 12 year playoff drought? That's really, really, really hard to do in this day and age of parity. In that same period of time, franchises that many on this board point and laught at ... the Cardinals, Bengals, Commanders, Saints ... have all won playoff games. Al Davis has gone to an AFC Championship a Superbowl in that time. Even horrible organizations should be able to luck their way into a playoff win now and then.

It's all fine and dandy to work with people you like, but could they at least maybe have enough bulletpoints on the resume to get some type of job with another NFL team in the same capacity? Larry Lacewell would never get another pro personnel job if it weren't for Jerry. When Barry Switzer was hired to be the Cowboys head coach, a lot of people called into Dallas radio shows wondering if Jerry might have a chemical dependency problem ... not being tongue and cheek but completely sincere and worried. That's how ridiculous and unbelievable that hiring was. Further, it's great to hire your old college football and drinking buddies, but you have to also hold them accountable. Larry Lacewell never being held accountable was nothing more than the good ole' boy network at it's purest. This is supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL organization. That means people that don't do their jobs get fired, just like any other job in the real world. And for God's sakes, quit blaming Larry Lacewell's incompetence on draft position. It's not that the Cowboys were drafting low, it's that they were drafting players two or three rounds higher than they should have gone in the first place. You should be able to find at least two or three Day 2 picks that contribute to your team within the span of 8 years. If Larry Lacewell had any dignity he would have fallen on the sword and fired himself. The fact that Lacwell can even show his face back at Valley Ranch, much less get an office and slap backs, tell stories, and act like McArthur returning to the Phillipines is nothing short of a complete embarassment for this franchise.

The bottomline is it's ridiculous to suggest Jerry has been unfairly crucified by Dallas fans and media. Jerry has made repeated management blunders and put an inferior product on the market for 12 consecutive years. In other business ventures owners usually see their businesses go bankrupt for that kind of output, and CEO's typically lose their jobs. Jerry will soon have taxpayers funding the most expensive sports stadium in professional sports, and in the process the Cowboy fans will have made his franchise the richest in professional franchise in the world. His customer base has shown Jerry a ridiculous amount of patience and loyalty.

 

[superpunk]

If this topic could be kept off the extremes it could be a pretty good one with a large amount of agreement.

I think most folks here probably agree on the following.

1. Jimmy and Bill are the best two HC's, and HC personnel guys we've had during Jones era.
2. The personnel moves post Jimmy and pre Bill were below average overall. Embarrassing some years, okay in others like 1998 (6th) & 2002 (6th?).
3. Bill and Jerry each had some say in the personnel moves from 2003 - 2006. Its not all Bill, its not all Jerry. Per the rumors about TO, Eddie George, Ware vs Merrimen, Newman vs Kevin Williams, etc.
4. It takes cap $, higher draft picks and some luck to have a great offseason, ie the offseason playing field was not even during all of Jerry Jones years.

From the above, doesn't it also stand to reason that...

1. Larry Lacewell didn't have final GM say on personnel anymore than Bill Parcells did, ie Jerry had influence in both.
2. The degree of difficulty for the Lacewell/Jones drafts was overall greater than those of Bill & Jimmy's.
3. The bad drafts were a combination of low picks, Lacewell, inexperienced Jones, poor cap situation, generally speaking.
4. The really good drafts overall had a positive combination of Jimmy and or Bill, relatively higher picks, relatively more picks, a more experienced Jerry and a better cap situation.

Its not all one thing or another. Its not all one person or another. Good or bad. So going forward...

I don't expect Lacewell having an office at VR nor Dave Campo coaching our secondary are going to signal a return to the era between Jimmy & Bill.

I think with a more experienced Jerry Jones as GM (on draft day, FA's, picking HC's, managing the cap, etc) we have a decent shot at remaining a competitive team.

To think otherwise is IMO extremism.

This should be posted in EVERY pro/anti-Jerry thread, and then they should be locked.

 

[5Stars]

If this topic could be kept off the extremes it could be a pretty good one with a large amount of agreement.

I think most folks here probably agree on the following.

1. Jimmy and Bill are the best two HC's, and HC personnel guys we've had during Jones era.
2. The personnel moves post Jimmy and pre Bill were below average overall. Embarrassing some years, okay in others like 1998 (6th) & 2002 (6th?).
3. Bill and Jerry each had some say in the personnel moves from 2003 - 2006. Its not all Bill, its not all Jerry. Per the rumors about TO, Eddie George, Ware vs Merrimen, Newman vs Kevin Williams, etc.
4. It takes cap $, higher draft picks and some luck to have a great offseason, ie the offseason playing field was not even during all of Jerry Jones years.

From the above, doesn't it also stand to reason that...

1. Larry Lacewell didn't have final GM say on personnel anymore than Bill Parcells did, ie Jerry had influence in both.
2. The degree of difficulty for the Lacewell/Jones drafts was overall greater than those of Bill & Jimmy's.
3. The bad drafts were a combination of low picks, Lacewell, inexperienced Jones, poor cap situation, generally speaking.
4. The really good drafts overall had a positive combination of Jimmy and or Bill, relatively higher picks, relatively more picks, a more experienced Jerry and a better cap situation.

Its not all one thing or another. Its not all one person or another. Good or bad. So going forward...

I don't expect Lacewell having an office at VR nor Dave Campo coaching our secondary are going to signal a return to the era between Jimmy & Bill.

I think with a more experienced Jerry Jones as GM (on draft day, FA's, picking HC's, managing the cap, etc) we have a decent shot at remaining a competitive team.

To think otherwise is IMO extremism.

Nice! Very nice, CoCo!

 

[bbgun]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -- Albert Einstein

 

[5Stars]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -- Albert Einstein

That is very, very true...if you use the exact parameters. For instance, if you try and light water on fire, again and again and again, then you are truley insane! However, a team is dynamic, not static.

 

[CoCo]

What is extremeist about a 12 year playoff drought?

The extremism is in treating that 12 year period as a single homogenous unit.

If you see no significant difference in the hope for this franchise between 1996/97 & 2007/08, then that, IMO, is the definition of extremism.

I'm certainly not saying Jones is perfect. His inexperience played a large role in our drought. But I'm not going to join the panic that seems to be emerging in some circles in the last couple of weeks as if to suggest something somewhere is majorly wrong.

Largely, stay the course. If you think that dooms us to another 12 year drought, so be it. I don't. We'll see.

 

[InmanRoshi]

The extremism is in treating that 12 year period as a single homogenous unit.

If you see no significant difference in the hope for this franchise between 1996/97 & 2007/08, then that, IMO, is the definition of extremism.

I'm certainly not saying Jones is perfect. His inexperience played a large role in our drought. But I'm not going to join the panic that seems to be emerging in some circles in the last couple of weeks as if to suggest something somewhere is majorly wrong.

Largely, stay the course. If you think that dooms us to another 12 year drought, so be it. I don't. We'll see.

I guess we should have given Campo another 10 years to be head coach. It's "extremist" to suggest he couldn't learn or get better or that he would be as bad in 2009 and he was in 2001.

 

[CoCo]

I guess we should have given Campo another 10 years to be head coach. It's "extremist" to suggest he couldn't learn or get better or that he would be as bad in 2009 and he was in 2001.

If I didn't know better I would think that your posts indicate a belief that nothing has changed in 12 years and therefore you don't believe we'll win a playoff game in 2008. Is that the case? Would you like to post your 2008 prediction and have people offer to take bets against it happening?

Or is it more likely that you believe we will win a playoff game in 2008, but to say that now would make your previous posts sound a bit extreme?

I believe that this team will win 11 games minimum next season and at least 1 playoff win, and I'm willing to do so without knowing how the offseason goes, who we draft or re-sign simply because I think we have assembled enough talent in players, coaches and FO types (including Jerry) to make that a safe prediction.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

We all know that Jerry has made mistakes in the past. Some more costly then others. However, Jerry does not and has never struck me as a stupid man. Thinking back, can anybody remember Jerry making the same mistakes twice? I can't really remember that too much. My memory of things is not as good as it once was. If anybody can remember him repeating mistakes, can you outline them?

I just have a real hard time believing that Jerry is going to trade the farm for McFadden and I'm wondering if maybe we are being too hard on Jerry Jones over something that he may not have any intentions of doing.

Carter, Hutch and Henson.
Not twice but three times.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Uh, this team had Leonard Davis and Keith Hamlin, two key elements of why we went 13-3. Those weren't Bill players. Bradie James lost 10 lbs to suit the style of play of Wade. Bradie was a totally different player this year, which he never would have been with Bill still in the mix. He'd still be getting burned up the middle in passive cover-2 defense.

The only reason we lost against the Giants was because Jacques reeves couldn't cover. Wade had to make a choice between an age-old veteran, Aaron Glenn, and Jacques Reeves. That is pretty imrpessive that Bill would leave a team with a secondary that had to rely on Reeves, and also had to out and get a free-agent safety in Ken Hamlin to CAPTAIN the freakin's secondary...

But all praise to Bill... Wade is a yes-man and Jerry running this team into the ground...

If Wade's 13-3 doesn't count, than you can't count Bill's BEST season as coach, because those were Campo's players. When he brought in his own QBs and own ageing veterans, his record got worse. In fact, he's probably post a losing record without Campo's team...

Well ya got that part right anyway.

 

[mmillman]

Jones lost me with his string of ******* coaches he hired and the final straw was Quincy Carter. The guy couldn't even throw a spiral when he got to the NFL. He needs a strong counter in the organization and without a guy like Parcells...........

I am actually in the trade up camp. Usually you won't hit on both first rounders anyway and the later in the round the less success you and they have.

 

[Bach]

whippee doo....

Ask the Eagles what they got....with all those playoff victories......

They would trade 11 yrs of pretenders for 1 super bowl.

Of course we want a Super Bowl. The point is, the last 11 years we couldn't even win a playoff game. Most GM's with that type of record would've been fired long ago.