Watkins: Hours Clause - The contract died over this?

[JohnnyHopkins]

"Um Dan, Um, the scanner didn't register your "in-time". Looks like we'll um, have to try again."

Man, I'm getting pretty bitter.

 

[Chief]

Man, I'm getting pretty bitter.

Join the club.

 

[Boyzmamacita]

Add me to the long list of skeptics concerning this. It had nothing to do with hours, folks. That's just what they agreed to say publicly. We may never know what really went down.

 

[Dallas]

If his role is consultant, why cant he have set hours to work? He isnt a coach who has to log in long hours gameplanning. America punches a clock what makes a consultant job any different? Not a big deal in my opinion.

I agree. There is absolutely nothing wrong w/ placing works hours into a contract. Nothing whatsoever.

Jerry even said he has had it in every contract he has ever signed w/ a coach or employee.

Im sure its more like general operation hours, you will be working. *** cares about that tiny crap? Dan Reeves sure does.

Dan says a contract should really only be a handshake. ***???

What planet is this guy from?


I am very glad that Dan Reeves will not be part of the Cowboys now. That is just stupid.

Who is the employer anyways? You want to work there so bad like you say, then sign the blasted thing and be done w/ it.

It sounds like Dan Reeves has a bit too much pride. Both men do but I understand it being in a contract.

No fault of Jerry's for asking for it.

 

[TwentyOne]

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/020609dnspocowreeves.413368b.html
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Hours clause was sticking point for Reeves, Dallas Cowboys

Sorry guys but this has to be a joke. I can't belive that this was the issue.

Come on ? We are talking not about kids those are both grown men. I mean if this is true shame on both of them!

 

[dallasfaniac]

Jerry even said he has had it in every contract he has ever signed w/ a coach or employee.

If every other employee signed a contract with this stipulation without complaint but then a 'consultant' took offense and refused to sign, it would throw up a big red flag to me too. Not only would it make me question their commitment, but I would have to imagine what other 'sticking point' I would run across in normal business. Will he walk out on his contract because he wanted one player but all the scouts and coaches wanted a different one?

 

[Iago33]

Jerry even said he has had it in every contract he has ever signed w/ a coach or employee.

Where did he say that? I must have missed it. I did hear him say he has never given any coach power over personell and hiring/firing. I didn't hear him say he puts an "hour clause" in every contract. Please point me to the specific reference to that.

 

[RainMan]

It's a big deal because the NFL isn't everyday America with set hours, Reeves has a proven track record and now someone who really could have helped with this team's direction is gone. If you can't see that then you must have no clue about what the NFL is.

Agreed.

What, do any of us really think Reeves would be sneaking in late after nights out on the town, leaving early to hit the golf course and building a George Costanza-like bed underneath his desk to catch some important Zzz's in between?

 

[RainMan]

Why? What would make him bail out?

I really don't believe that is the case. He wanted to get back into the NFL and even relinquished a job in San Francisco he probably could have had. Now, he doesn't have either.



Well, I have listened to both interviews. One sounded truly upset. One expressed far less regret and reiterated the issue. So who do you think would use this as an out?

Agreed. A thing like this, in some ways, comes down to credibility. We're forced to take sides here -- Jerry's or Dan's -- on who we believe might have been forcing an unnecessary issue or simply bailing out.

Which man has more credibility right now? Or, for that matter, ever?

 

[jterrell]

Agreed. A thing like this, in some ways, comes down to credibility. We're forced to take sides here -- Jerry's or Dan's -- on who we believe might have been forcing an unnecessary issue or simply bailing out.

Which man has more credibility right now? Or, for that matter, ever?

Since both guys are admitting they disagreed over the clause all it takes is deciding if the clause was warranted or valid.

It isn't a credibility issue because both sides admit it.

To me, I don't see why Reeves cares to be honest. Coaches generally pile up unbelievable hour totals. However consultants do not necessarily do so. If it was a consultant type contract that paid him 2M plus as I suspect given it was reported it was an OC/HC type salary then I can see why Jerry wanted that in.

Even Dan Reeves said he could see why Jerry wanted it in.

I don't know why it couldn't be worked out but I do suspect both guys being pig-headed left both with a bit of a bad taste in their mouths about working together.

I know my salary which is not 7 figures requires me to basically be available 24x7. I have a 40 hour work week so to speak but that is just a fairy tale when you have to be available for on call and off hour work as scheduled. I am used to working hours as needed so never would balk at a contract like that.

If Jerry wants to hire me to consult I am willing to move into the janitor's closest, shower on site, wear only Cowboys garb for clothing and eat only whatever I can order via delivery for a mere 500K per year.

 

[adbutcher]

Since both guys are admitting they disagreed over the clause all it takes is deciding if the clause was warranted or valid.

It isn't a credibility issue because both sides admit it.

To me, I don't see why Reeves cares to be honest. Coaches generally pile up unbelievable hour totals. However consultants do not necessarily do so. If it was a consultant type contract that paid him 2M plus as I suspect given it was reported it was an OC/HC type salary then I can see why Jerry wanted that in.

Even Dan Reeves said he could see why Jerry wanted it in.

I don't know why it couldn't be worked out but I do suspect both guys being pig-headed left both with a bit of a bad taste in their mouths about working together.

I know my salary which is not 7 figures requires me to basically be available 24x7. I have a 40 hour work week so to speak but that is just a fairy tale when you have to be available for on call and off hour work as scheduled. I am used to working hours as needed so never would balk at a contract like that.

If Jerry wants to hire me to consult I am willing to move into the janitor's closest, shower on site, wear only Cowboys garb for clothing and eat only whatever I can order via delivery for a mere 500K per year.

Indeed and I see your 500K and lower you 350K. Jerry, are you there? Jerrrry! OK, I settle for 339K.

 

[cowboyed]

WOW!!!


I have been one of Jerry's biggest supporters on this site (as many of you know), but this is just out there.

If this is legit and Jerry wanted Dan Reeves to punch a freaking clock..............well, I really cant defend this.

Jerry with a bad move, what a slap in the face for Reeves after being in the NFL for 20+ seasons and Jerry wanting him to punch a freaking time card.

This is not freaking Home Depot here, you dont ask somebody like Reeves to punch a freaking time card!!!!



Dam Jerry, what the hell are you doing????

Many use that expression "punching a clock" and not mean it literally. It is to express their displeasure having to work in a structured time frame.

 

[cowboyed]

I agree with Dan Reeves.


I have now lost intrest in this team.



Somebody call me when Jerry dies. :choke:

The same could apply to you...

 

[khiladi]

Jerry obviously wants a minimum committment from Dan Reeves in writing... Why the hell are fans complaining? As jterrell said, it is a consulting position.

 

[cowboyed]

Somebody said yesterday that more and more, they thought Jerry sabotaged this thing on purpose.

After reading this BS, I have to agree.

No wonder Reeves was insulted. I don't blame him one bit.

Jerry, you SUCK.

How about some negative Wade speculation Choco which we know you don't as eagerly and comparatively embrace. What if Wade Phillips has a poor work ethic and his work pace and commitment have been short of the mark. Unlike Parcells Wade may not have been a midnight oil burner to make an effort fixing the team.

Please note Wade didn't consistently participate even in the defensive meetings, let alone offensive meetings and in a number of local post game press conferences throughout the season he was already in his street clothes.

Maybe Jerry figured the next coach he got and was going to have to pay a ton of money to is going to get a time stipulated contract. Maybe Jerry wasn't going to go on the pat assurances that someone was going to put the hours in necessary when there may have been evidence to the contrary maybe with even other coaches beyond Wade.

Also Reeves stating about "punching the clock" could be more an expression. It is commonly used to describe liking an open ended job rather than a structured one.

After the erroneous plane delay writing fiasco by Watkins all I would like to state back regarding his article title would be "Calvin, you wrote an article over that?"

 

[jterrell]

Indeed and I see your 500K and lower you 350K. Jerry, are you there? Jerrrry! OK, I settle for 339K.

I'd need the extra salary to cover all the wife's shopping expenses while I was in "the bunker".

FWIW it is odd that a deal died over this but I wonder how much time Reeves put in for Houston as a consultant?

I have never had a contract and I work as an IT guy based largely on contracts, that did not include some time commitment reference. What company just signs a deal that guarantees you pay but nothing in return detailing time?

I'd have no issues with extra contractual obligations that were easy to meet. For instance Jerry can also add will never make out with a Dallas Cowboys player....

If working all those hours is second nature to Reeves just sign man and help us now but if you want to spend half the time in Georgia and half here then ask for less money and less time commitment and get something done.

 

[Bach]

Sorry guys but this has to be a joke. I can't belive that this was the issue.

Come on ? We are talking not about kids those are both grown men. I mean if this is true shame on both of them!

Reeves himself said it was trivial. Doesn't mean it was about the hours, but still, it would be something that would make us go "huh?".

 

[InmanRoshi]

Reeves himself said it was trivial. Doesn't mean it was about the hours, but still, it would be something that would make us go "huh?".

I don't think it was solely about the hours. Probably had something to do with "You contractually expect me to put in the hours of a coach, but without any of the organizational authority of a coach? If I'm just relegated to watching some game film and drawing up some X's and O's game planning, why do you need me up here 40 hours a week in May, June and July?"

Of course, Dan Reeves probably forgot that coaches don't have any authority here either.

Bottomline ... Jerry just didn't really want him here. He was just appeasing Wade.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

See, I knew it. I KNEW it would be something completely and utterly stupid.

 

[adbutcher]

I'd need the extra salary to cover all the wife's shopping expenses while I was in "the bunker".

FWIW it is odd that a deal died over this but I wonder how much time Reeves put in for Houston as a consultant?

I have never had a contract and I work as an IT guy based largely on contracts, that did not include some time commitment reference. What company just signs a deal that guarantees you pay but nothing in return detailing time?

I'd have no issues with extra contractual obligations that were easy to meet. For instance Jerry can also add will never make out with a Dallas Cowboys player....

If working all those hours is second nature to Reeves just sign man and help us now but if you want to spend half the time in Georgia and half here then ask for less money and less time commitment and get something done.

That is my perspective as well. Everything that I work on has a time commitment. I don't punch a clock but we do have charge lines that are similar to billable hours.

Another point to consider would be contractual protection if Reeves decided to quit or gets fired. Most contracts of this magnitude have buyout clauses and they are usually prorated based on time. The more I think about it I tend to side with Jerry if what he says is true about including it in all of his contracts. Reeves should have relented but like I stated before I am glad he didn't.