What are the real reasons for red zone issues?

percyhoward

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Well, part of it is regressing to and away from the mean (which I think just happens). The one caveat, which others have mentioned and I did not think about, is the TE situation.
The role of the TE in this is probably the biggest factor, and this has been discussed at length. But threads come and go fast these days.

I don't think dropping from 3rd/6th to 30th is regression to the mean.
 

conner01

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You lose Dez and Witten in an offseason, it's going to affect your red zone production. It didn't help we were playing a really good red zone defense last week.

It's a personnel limitation right now. Either get the TEs involved, remember Cole Beasley is on the roster, or hope that this is an area where Tavon Austin gives you an option in single coverage now that he's back. It shouldn't take all that much for the running game along with Dak to be in play again, but right now, that's been taken away from us. Gotta find a serviceable third option.
That’s a big part of it
We don’t have that go to guy who can play the physical style dez or witten did
It’s many things
Play calling, execution, bad passes, even a drop
It’s never one thing but they have to get it fixed
 

Stash

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Unless you're at the 1 or 2 yard lines, I'd say three straight runs almost never happens with ANY team.

You'd have to show me those numbers. But when it's brought up like it was, I'd like to see numbers behind that too. It's easy to throw unsupported claims around, quite another to back them up.

Nobody does "don't run the ball" like Scott Linehan. He should be fired for "shotgun on first down" alone.
 

DIAF

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Partly playcalling, partly dak not being comfortable throwing the ball inside the 10, partly lack of a quality te. Fix two of those in the offseason andit should be better next year
 

Stash

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The role of the TE in this is probably the biggest factor, and this has been discussed at length. But threads come and go fast these days.

I don't think dropping from 3rd/6th to 30th is regression to the mean.

It's not. It's an attempt to dismiss facts and numbers because they shoot your unsupported theories all to hell.
 

Idgit

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It was a nice play to Bealsey from the 5. Beasley flattened out and Dak threw towards the back of the endzone. Such a small detail but Dak looked like he wanted to throw deeper over the LB and Beasley felt the gap and flattened out

I know people hate the passing play calls from the 5 yard line, but two to Beasley and the one to Noah Brown were actually open in recent weeks and they just couldn't quite execute them properly. When we get compressed down there, they can both play the run and double Cooper. There's less room for the other WRs to work. You'd think it would open things up for Beasley, who's so tough to single up, but they've missed on those shots. It doesn't help that Dak can't throw a decent fade, or I'd say just put Gathers in and run that, but I think they don't want Gathers in in goal line running situations.
 

BigD49

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Can you point to an occasion where this offensive coordinator has ever "run it 3 times with Zeke"?

:huh:

Heck, I can point back to this most recent game, in the third quarter backed up in our own end of the field where the idiot called for a shotgun pass on first down when Zeke was having a great day. That led to a sack and a second and fifteen, obvious passing play where Dak was picked and the Eagles handed the ball at the Cowboys 2-yard line. That's absolutely brainless play calling on full display right there. And it allowed a team that wasn't close to being in the game to get in the game.

Classic Linehan.
:facepalm:
To be clear...I'm not saying that we ever have. I'm saying that if we did run it 3 times in a row and it failed, we'd all complain about a lack of creativity. Just highlighting that I agree with OPs logic that whatever we do, if it fails, we will complain about it regardless of the strategy adopted haha
 

Stash

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To be clear...I'm not saying that we ever have. I'm saying that if we did run it 3 times in a row and it failed, we'd all complain about a lack of creativity. Just highlighting that I agree with OPs logic that whatever we do, if it fails, we will complain about it regardless of the strategy adopted haha

Pretty tough to say that when it's never happened then, eh?
:huh:

The sad fact is that despite all of their success elsewhere, this team ranks 30th in red zone touchdown scoring. That has been, and continues to be their undoing, and if it's not fixed and fixed soon, a potential championship season will go by the wayside.
 

Wolfpack

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Predictable play calling out of predictable
Formations.

The opppsimg teams study this and will have a chart showing the % of calls Dallas has made out of each personal group. They know exactly what is coming.
 

Stash

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Predictable play calling out of predictable
Formations.

The opppsimg teams study this and will have a chart showing the % of calls Dallas has made out of each personal group. They know exactly what is coming.

Exactly right!

Heck, I know what's coming, sitting on my couch! If Noah Brown is on the field, there's a pretty good chance it's going to be a run. Oh, and when there's an empty backfield, I'm pretty confident in guessing it's a pass.

And above all, no matter how well Zeke and the running game may be doing, the OC cannot help himself but to call plenty of passing plays, often in the worst times and situations.
 

CPanther95

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Flip a coin.

...as long as the coin has TE on one side and coaching on the other.
 

droopdog7

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Exactly right!

Heck, I know what's coming, sitting on my couch! If Noah Brown is on the field, there's a pretty good chance it's going to be a run. Oh, and when there's an empty backfield, I'm pretty confident in guessing it's a pass.

And above all, no matter how well Zeke and the running game may be doing, the OC cannot help himself but to call plenty of passing plays, often in the worst times and situations.
If both of you know exactly what's coming, you don't think the other teams (one both sides) know what's coming? The predictable play calling angle is a myth. All teams know what other teams are doing most of the time.
 

Dre11

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And no, it's not the lack of running IMO. I don't have the stats but I'd speculate that many runs inside the 10 result in no yards or a loss. Probably averaging less than two yards a carry in that situation. I'm sure someone who knows how to find the stats can confirm or prove me wrong. Either way, I am of the belief that a run that probably won't score, and may not get you any yards at all, is mostly a wasted opportunity to take a shot at the end zone.

I think the QB is part of the problem as he doesn't appear to be especially comfortable throwing the ball inside when we're between the 20's. I'd guess that these throws are made even more difficult inside the 10. They develop very quickly and the QB has to be able to make quick decisions, one thing we know dak does not excel at.

Some of it has been just plain unlucky. Beasley drops and easy one. Other big plays inside the 10 have been called back by penalty. I thought he pass last game to gallup was extremely well executed but somehow, gallup did not see the pass. And let's go back to penalties; they've killed us there too many times.

I'm saving play calling for last. Everyone complains about it. But the way you can tell no one really knows what they're saying is that many of the complaints are not consistent. Of course more people want more runs but like I said, I don't believe that the solution (or else a preschooler could have found it). Some people want to run zeke up the middle, some want to run outside, some want a read option. Basically whatever did not work that last play was the wrong one even though we've seen many of them fail recently.

In terms of passing, some wants slants, some want fades, some want picks. Well, the truth is none of us really know what they're running on pass plays unless it's a fade. We all saw how lucky we got on cooper's last TD. Basically, the db can take away a slant or a fade if they decide to do it (last play not withstanding). But the bottom line on play calling is that most fans don't really know what they're looking at, aside from the fact that it didn't work. Now, this is not to say the play caller should get no scrutiny. His job is to help the team score. I just think complaining about specific plays we should or should not run is pointless and always hindsight thinking.

So in the end, I place part of the blame on the qb that is not so good at executing passes in tight spaces, and he often holds the ball too long, leading to sacks or penalties. I place part of the blame on the OC because the buck stops with him but I'm not going to pretend like I know what he should do differently (because I don't). And I place part of the blame on luck. I mean, how many times have we had a first and 10 right at the 10 yard line this year? Seems like a lot.


It's not lack of running but we can't run, teams are loading up in the redbone for the run and we aren't making them pay throwing because of various reason, sacks, penalties, drops.
 

Stash

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If both of you know exactly what's coming, you don't think the other teams (one both sides) know what's coming? The predictable play calling angle is a myth. All teams know what other teams are doing most of the time.

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe if you hear it enough, even you'll start to believe it.
 

Wolfpack

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Exactly right!

Heck, I know what's coming, sitting on my couch! If Noah Brown is on the field, there's a pretty good chance it's going to be a run. Oh, and when there's an empty backfield, I'm pretty confident in guessing it's a pass.

And above all, no matter how well Zeke and the running game may be doing, the OC cannot help himself but to call plenty of passing plays, often in the worst times and situations.
The pass plays come out of a 5 wide set instead of out of an I with play action which is the larger problem. There was the one QB draw out of a 5 wide look but I’m guessing Dak made that up on the fly.
 

TheHerd

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1st down - Pass
2nd down - Elliott dive right up the gut for no gain
3rd down - Prescott dump off, 5 yards short of the end zone

I can almost guarantee three Zeke runs, if they are quick hits, from inside the 5 would result in a TD. We get cute even with our runs and they are often slow developing plays which get blown up.
 

Bizwah

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It's been pretty predictable the last few weeks.

But I agree with most of the other posters. Our personnel is simply not good enough. Zeke is our only threat right now. Last year we had Witten and Dez. While neither player scared defenses from a big play perspective, they were still very much a threat in the redzone. Our TEs are still too green to use effectively. Beasley is a nice player, but he's more of a complimentary player down close. He was great when Dez and Witten drew so much attention.

Cooper is the wildcard here. His very first TD was an excellent example of how we can use him. But we really need a full offseason with him to truly understand the many different ways we can get him the ball down close. Noah Brown is another player that we need to learn to use down there. He can jump and outmuscle guys a lot like Dez.
 

droopdog7

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Keep telling yourself that. Maybe if you hear it enough, even you'll start to believe it.
It’s well known that Sean Lee is so effective because he knows what’s coming. Execution much more important than trickery.
 

jsb357

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compressed defense
results in
windows get smaller
results in
staring down targets
because of
bad play calling
 

davidariust24

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1st and goal at the 3.

1st down: pass
2nd down: pass
3rd down: pass

Unforgivable.
When inside the five give it to Zeke. We dont have to always to run a goalline package everytime. Spread Wideouts out wide so that the defense has to spread out and if their is no safety help Dak can test the defense by changing the play or pretending to change the play to see if they want to guard vs the pass or keep the box loaded vs zeke.in my opinion we run too much goalline with Zeke inside the five. We sometimes need to change the style or personel and just run the ball. When we get inside the five and it's Zeke running we always have two to three tightend everytime! The tight ends we have dont block well. This is an area where Witten is missed. Just run two or three receivers sometimes and run the football inside the five or at least the ten
 
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