What could we get for Lawrence and Cooper?

Verdict

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There is another reason. It could be that cap limitations force you to consider something like this as well. That too is a possibility.

It is incredibly hard to have a reasonable, rational discussion on this board. You have a lot more patience than I do with some of these guys. My hat is off to you, my friend.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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It is incredibly hard to have a reasonable, rational discussion on this board. You have a lot more patience than I do with some of these guys. My hat is off to you, my friend.

The idea that a cold beer is in my future helps a great deal Verdict. Speaking of which, it's time for me to close out and start the weekend! Have a good one my friend! That goes for all of you guys and gals!
 

Verdict

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The idea that a cold beer is in my future helps a great deal Verdict. Speaking of which, it's time for me to close out and start the weekend! Have a good one my friend! That goes for all of you guys and gals!

Enjoy bro.
 

buybuydandavis

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This is a fair discussion, and you are right that there should be improvement in the offense over the first part of last year because of more than just Cooper.

I do, however, think the scoring numbers you mention are misleading, because there aren’t that many games in an NFL season, and obviously are fewer when breaking down to parts of seasons, so the numbers can be skewed by individual games, and may not take consistency into account. For example, the numbers before Cooper came are skewed by one game the Cowboys won 40-7, but that game was not representative of that part of the season. Similarly, the numbers during the successful second part of the season - after Cooper came - are skewed by a 0-23 loss, which was not representative of that part of the season.

I’m interested more in consistency. For example, the Cowboys scored 27+ 6 times last year - once before Cooper, and 5 times after Cooper arrived. Dak had over 200 yards passing 11 times - 3 times before Cooper, and 8 times after Cooper arrived. Dak’s QB ratings were also consistently better after Cooper arrived.

Granted, Cooper can’t take all the credit, but I think it made a big difference in a lot of ways, including team confidence, and Dak’s confidence, to have that receiver that everyone believed in. He wasnt an inexperienced rookie like Gallup, or a well past his prime player like Hurns, or a career underachiever like Austin, or a one dimensional player like Beasley. He gave the receiving group its Zeke Elliott. That boosts everyone’s confidence.

Dak hasn’t had that Drew Pearson/Michael Irvin/Jason Witten player to pair with, have supreme confidence in and build a chemistry with the way past Cowboy QBs have. Cooper is the first, best chance for that.

Your consistency stats look like some cherry picking.
Throw out the best game without Cooper and the worst game with Cooper.
Also, the 27 threshold just happens to keep one 26 before Cooper out, and 2 27s with Coop in.

I grant Cooper is our best WR. And our offense is better with him than without. Of course.
Do you plan on paying the oline, Zeke, Dak, and Cooper?
How many big contracts will that leave for the defense?

My issue with Cooper isn't his play, but putting huge resources into a WR when we're already dumping tons into the offense and soon will be dumping tons more.
 

buybuydandavis

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It did not exist before and the defense had to focus on him more which is clear from all game tape. I can't agree here at all

You can't agree with what? Which of these assertions are false?
1) We weren't that great with Cooper either. 2) We won a lot of close games.

3) We won the point differential in the first 7 games, and 4) lost it in the last 9.
5) Our offensive production only increased 2 points a game, and 6) even that meager 2 points shouldn't be entirely attributed to Cooper.​
 

buybuydandavis

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Oh great, let's start rebuilding once again, nothing like perpetually being an 8-8 or 9-7 team year after year, with an occasional playoff win, eh?

I'd rather keep building value and allocating resources to the critical positions than signing bad contracts that set back the team *long* term.
 

GimmeTheBall!

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Problem: Lawrence is injured and wants a huge contract, Gregory probably isn't back this year, and now Crawford has issues. DE is looking bad for us, with a great dline draft.

Solution?: Flip Cooper. Trade Lawrence. Use picks for the dline. Free up 40mil per year.

Question: Could we get a 1st out of each? Maybe a 1st plus?

We gave up a first for Cooper. And I think he's exceeded expectations. Shouldn't he be worth more now?

If you thought that giving up a 1st for Cooper was a good deal for us last year, shouldn't it be an even better deal now for the team we trade Cooper to?

And for Lawrence, wasn't he considered in the top few free agents in the league? I'd expect that to net more than Cooper.

*If* you think the Cooper deal was good for us, shouldn't we get two 1sts plus out of trading Cooper and Lawrence?

I'd be happy with that with a dline heavy draft to build with.
I wouldn't touch those two elite players we have.
And as to the mean girls making faces at this post, buybuy had an idea, a thought to improve our team with an elite player or two. You mean girls and Jerry want the status quo.
Well, blokes, that is fine, but the status quo is a team without an A-list QB who will lead us to 9-7 (maybe) but 8-8 seasons until 2022. That means middle of the place draft picks and, guess what, more 8-8 seasons.
You want that, correc? Chaps, don't be afraid to dream big. Otherwise you turn into one of the CZ mean girls or worse, a FO zombie.
 

buybuydandavis

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Give me a break. Two points a game is a massive difference.

From 20 to 22.11 is about 6.5 points up in NFL rankings, bounded by 26 and 19.
Woohoo! We'll be almost up to 19th by keeping Cooper!
And that's assigning *all* improvement seen to Cooper, which really isn't reasonable.
 

buybuydandavis

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The Cowboys can control him with a tag easily to extend his run here one more year. Cooper should at least be worth a first round pick we have to get him here.

But I would have already figured out what it will take to get him signed and either signed him, or have looked to move on in a trade. The Cowboys seem to either be crazy or have some seriously big 'nads.

The Cowboys seem willing to force Tank to play under the tag this year and Cooper next year.

They can control Cooper with the tag if they won't need it elsewhere. We've got a lot of balls in the air right now.

Trying to force Tank to play under the tag looks like an inevitable train wreck. How much can he screw us around with the shoulder injury, with no cost to himself? I'd think a lot.
 

zerofill

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Love to know who is better than either one of them in the draft...
 

buybuydandavis

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I'm not saying you're wrong here. Depending on how high the two first rounders are, Dallas could be looking at picking up a nice edge rusher and high end DT. Probably end up with a top 5-10 WR in the draft as well. Theoretically that's better than breaking the bank for Tank and Cooper. That's 4 years of rookie contracts if these guys pan out, and it improves the team. I just think it's risky when we already know what we have in Tank and Cooper, and what we need to do to get over the top. There is a better, less risky path through a few additions in FA and keeping our two guys. Depending on how high the first rounders would be, I like the idea. I'd probably rather do Byron and Tank, just not sure if Byron would fetch a first.

It's more risk in terms of uncertainty about player performance, much *less* risk in terms of locking in resources to players.

The oline signings were ideal. No issues for anyone. Performance, Injury, RKG, Position. All great.

The new batch of potential big signings all have issues. Cooper maybe least of all. The only issue I have with him is his position. Much of that problem is how much we spend money *elsewhere* on the offense.

If we were willing to churn running QBs, then maybe we leave Cooper there to put all the tools around el cheapo QBs. That's probably my preference, actually, but I don't see them doing that.
 

buybuydandavis

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I do think we could get more but, I don't think we will trade him. I think we will sign him. Cooper has shown that he can produce, even with a QB who is young and is not as accurate as NFL teams might view as optimal. That makes him very attractive.

As for DLaw, I think there is a much better chance of seeing a trade there. JMO

I agree with you on the likelihood of what they will do.

I was largely just wondering what people thought we could get for them.
 

DFWJC

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Or here's a crazier idea. Keep Cooper and Lawrence.

Trade a late round pick for Quinn. And since this is a historically deep draft at DL, draft a starting caliber DE or DT in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Lunacy!
 

buybuydandavis

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You would get 1-15 this season.

2 more first round picks and around 35mil extra to spend in free agency? Think of all the players we could sign with that 35mil.

4 nine mil free agents *and* two first round picks.
vs.
Lawrence and Cooper

We aren't going 1-15 with that.
 

buybuydandavis

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I wouldn't touch those two elite players we have.
And as to the mean girls making faces at this post, buybuy had an idea, a thought to improve our team with an elite player or two. You mean girls and Jerry want the status quo.
Well, blokes, that is fine, but the status quo is a team without an A-list QB who will lead us to 9-7 (maybe) but 8-8 seasons until 2022. That means middle of the place draft picks and, guess what, more 8-8 seasons.
You want that, correc? Chaps, don't be afraid to dream big. Otherwise you turn into one of the CZ mean girls or worse, a FO zombie.

The mean girls are the moron girls. I consider it a useful public service to smoke them out with this thread.

You can trade anyone. Especially for us, still trying to put a contender together. It's not like we're taking Brady off of NE. When you're winning SBs, maybe you want to ride that train as long as you can. Sadly, we are not subject to that constraint on our trades. We just need to keep building value.

The premise of trade is getting back the value that you give. If the guys we're trading are so fantabulous, we should get fantabulous trade value out of them.

The fundamental issue for me here is that the top free agent level guys are often just overpriced on their eventual contracts, and especially overpriced for their trade value in a short term contract.

I see more value in trading for the picks plus the signings of actual free agents with all the leftover money. Which is like 90% of the contract after you've paid your draft picks.

Another consideration is that if we have more quality players coming up for free agency than we have the money to keep, it's important to extract value out of some as you let them go.

Guys I'm happy to pay: the cornerstone positions, for guys without red flags on performance, injury history, or age. The oline qualified on all counts (not Collins, but that was a weird deal).

If DLaw didn't have red flags on injury or performance, I'd be all in on him. The new crop of potential signings all have issues. And we seem to have more than we can sign. Given the kind of overpriced trade compensation people say they expect for them, churn em.
 

buybuydandavis

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Probably not , but Lawrence I would trade for a 1 and lower pick this year.
Also try and trade lee and get something for him
Also Terrence williams could be traded for a pick.

We didn't even pick up Terrance's option. A vote of no confidence that he could do anything for us. We'd just rather get whatever comp pick credit he could fetch.

We're not trading Lee. Lee took a haircut on his contract to stay with the Cowboys. It would be pretty scabby of them to ship him off to Cleveland after that. And I don't think Cleveland would be confident that he would show. I wouldn't expect him to.

Lee took a big haircut. I like his value just mentoring our two young stud LBs. And he has so much upside if he gets healthy. I think he's a good contract for us at his current price.
 

Corso

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Problem: Lawrence is injured and wants a huge contract, Gregory probably isn't back this year, and now Crawford has issues. DE is looking bad for us, with a great dline draft.

Solution?: Flip Cooper. Trade Lawrence. Use picks for the dline. Free up 40mil per year.

Question: Could we get a 1st out of each? Maybe a 1st plus?

We gave up a first for Cooper. And I think he's exceeded expectations. Shouldn't he be worth more now?

If you thought that giving up a 1st for Cooper was a good deal for us last year, shouldn't it be an even better deal now for the team we trade Cooper to?

And for Lawrence, wasn't he considered in the top few free agents in the league? I'd expect that to net more than Cooper.

*If* you think the Cooper deal was good for us, shouldn't we get two 1sts plus out of trading Cooper and Lawrence?

I'd be happy with that with a dline heavy draft to build with.
This man is a heavy-hitter.
Y'all better recognize.
 

Ddisco22

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Problem: Lawrence is injured and wants a huge contract, Gregory probably isn't back this year, and now Crawford has issues. DE is looking bad for us, with a great dline draft.

Solution?: Flip Cooper. Trade Lawrence. Use picks for the dline. Free up 40mil per year.

Question: Could we get a 1st out of each? Maybe a 1st plus?

We gave up a first for Cooper. And I think he's exceeded expectations. Shouldn't he be worth more now?

If you thought that giving up a 1st for Cooper was a good deal for us last year, shouldn't it be an even better deal now for the team we trade Cooper to?

And for Lawrence, wasn't he considered in the top few free agents in the league? I'd expect that to net more than Cooper.

*If* you think the Cooper deal was good for us, shouldn't we get two 1sts plus out of trading Cooper and Lawrence?

I'd be happy with that with a dline heavy draft to build with.
We would get a closed thread!
Good night!!!!!!!
 
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