What does all of the restructing of contracts mean for 2014, 2015, 2016 Caps?

[JohnnyHopkins]

The numbers actually don't back you up on that. 2009 is the only year that they bombed on picks of late and that had a lot to do with the RoyW trade and a weak overall draft that was hard on all teams.

"Of late" somewhat circumvents my original post. I agree that the drafting looks like it might be trending upward as long as the 2012 bears fruit (the verdict is very much still out), but this group has been mediocre at best the last three years because of poor drafting from the years I have mentioned. They had to get Carr, Livings, Berny and Vickers last offseason because there were no in house candidates. People are currently wishing Dallas could sign O-linemen, DTs and Safeties because there are no in house candidates. If that 16% turned into 50% (which it looks like 2010 and 2011 are turning into), then this situation would be a lot better.

I think we all as fans hope that the teams 2012 and 2013 picks hit so that they can replenish the older core like Ratliff and Hatcher with younger ones, but that wasn't really my point.

 

[The Quest for Six]

Jerruh is counting on a decent increase in 2015 and a big increase in 2016 and the years following.

If THAT happens we are OK.

If it does NOT we are screwed.

I believe it was Todd Archer that reported a few times that the cap isn't expected to go up much, if at all and there's no doubt that Dallas is going to have a lot of cap probems and dead money in 2015,16,17

 

[Muhast]

(edit)Rodgers is at 9.75 (this years salary and cap hit) which is a steal in today's qb market and he is due a new contract soon. That will be as big, probably bigger than Flacco's.

Matt Ryan's is 12 while Romo's is close to 17. (cap hit)Both also need new deals)

Ryan will get right around what Flacco got. I won't be shocked if he gets the exact same deal.

Rodgers will get even more, he is a far better QB than both of them. He'll get 130+ imo.

 

[speedkilz88]

I believe it was Todd Archer that reported a few times that the cap isn't expected to go up much, if at all and there's no doubt that Dallas is going to have a lot of cap probems and dead money in 2015,16,17

It will go up in 2015 because of the tv revenue. All you have to do is look at all these new big contracts and see where teams are taking the big cap hits.

 

[Hoofbite]

(edit)Rodgers is at 9.75 (this years salary and cap hit) which is a steal in today's qb market and he is due a new contract soon. That will be as big, probably bigger than Flacco's.

Matt Ryan's is 12 while Romo's is close to 17. (cap hit)Both also need new deals)

I was referring to total amount.


Their numbers are what they are because the team didn't stupidly restructure each and every year.

This is a prime example of why constantly restructuring is horrible.

If it weren't for the fact that Dallas made Romo's cap hits like 4M, 4M, 12M, 6MM and 8M his cap hit right now would be significantly less.

For all intents and purposes, Matt Ryan got the exact same contract.

It's not like these teams paid less, they just didn't work the contracts to an extent that it created a huge cap hit like Dallas did.

 

[speedkilz88]

I was referring to total amount.


Their numbers are what they are because the team didn't stupidly restructure each and every year.

This is a prime example of why constantly restructuring is horrible.

If it weren't for the fact that Dallas made Romo's cap hits like 4M, 4M, 12M, 6MM and 8M his cap hit right now would be significantly less.

For all intents and purposes, Matt Ryan got the exact same contract.

It's not like these teams paid less, they just didn't work the contracts to an extent that it created a huge cap hit like Dallas did.

I guarantee you they will have to stucture it that way in their new contracts. At the amounts the players will want they will have no choice but to.

 

[Hoofbite]

I guarantee you they will have to stucture it that way in their new contracts. At the amounts the players will want they will have no choice but to.

Maybe. Who knows. One thing is for sure, they haven't had some grand advantage of not having a high priced QB, they've just handled their high priced QB much better.

 

[speedkilz88]

Maybe. Who knows. One thing is for sure, they haven't had some grand advantage of not having a high priced QB, they've just handled their high priced QB much better.

I do.

Some of that was still luck in getting those guys signed before they broke through as superstars and also before the cap took bigger jumps.

 

[Hoofbite]

I do.

Some of that was still luck in getting those guys signed before they broke through as superstars and also before the cap took bigger jumps.

They signed at like the same time. Maybe a year apart. And those players developing isn't some advantage for them.

Dallas just handled it poorly.

 

[speedkilz88]

They signed at like the same time. Maybe a year apart. And those players developing isn't some advantage for them.

Dallas just handled it poorly.

Romo signed his contract in 2008
He had thrown 2000 passes in previous seasons
veteran team with other big contracts

Aaron Rodgers signed his contract in 2008
was a bench player up until that season because of Favre
He threw only 28 passes in 2007. Close to 60 pass in previous seasons.
so they got him for a much cheaper deal and they also took a 13 million cap hit in the 1st season which is atypical

Matt Ryan was a rookie high pick-2008.
They had a young roster and could take slightly bigger hits in early years.

 

[Picksix]

You are right, there are lots of non-playoff caliber teams in the same situation. As far as playoff caliber teams in the NFC:

• 49ers were roughly $14m under the cap at the start of free agency.
• Packers are roughly $18m under the cap.
• Seahawks are $13m under the cap AFTER signing Harvin
• Atlanta has $9m of cap room

Those team (except GB) all have a very good QB playing on his initial contract. SF and Seattle have several key players on their first contract as well. Once they come due, those teams will be in the same situation.

 

[Hoofbite]

Romo signed his contract in 2008
He had thrown 2000 passes in previous seasons
veteran team with other big contracts

Aaron Rodgers signed his contract in 2008
was a bench player up until that season because of Favre
He threw only 28 passes in 2007. Close to 60 pass in previous seasons.
so they got him for a much cheaper deal and they also took a 13 million cap hit in the 1st season which is atypical

Matt Ryan was a rookie high pick-2008.
They had a young roster and could take slightly bigger hits in early years.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to get at.

I don't think Rodgers and Ryan having not proven themselves does their teams any favors or that it's even relevant for that matter.

The contracts are all basically the same. The Packers taking a bigger hit in year one may be atypical but it's not really meaningful because even with an average hit they're still at a lower cap number than Romo for this year.

Matt Ryan's first two years were relatively cheap and then his cap number sort of leveled off.

The point I was making is that other teams have high priced contracts for their QBs on the books and they are making it work without having to pray for a new contract in order to operate.

What any given player costs isn't all that important so long as you manage the cap efficiently. Dallas has not, that's why Romo has a 16M cap hit this year while guys with the same contract amounts are at least 4M lower.

What those teams basically did was accept that good QBs cost a lot and instead of trying to get cute with the cap year after year they just took a cap hit close to what the average would be. As a result, they don't have some ridiculous jump in cap number. The numbers are basically what they have been for the last couple years.

Dallas did not which is why Romo has reworked his contract for like 3 straight years now.

 

[Future]

Rodgers contract is like 4M less than Romo's.

Ryan's is the same as Romo's. He was drafted at a time when the first couple picks were paid more than anyone else.

In that regard, these two teams are in the same position as Dallas.

Yea but I think they had higher bonuses or whatever, which has lowered their cap hit significantly now.

 

[Hoofbite]

Yea but I think they had higher bonuses or whatever, which has lowered their cap hit significantly now.

Don't think either did.

Not that I'm sure it would make a difference over the length of the contract. Bonus money, base salary, it's all counting towards the cap. Less bonus or more, that difference has to be made up somewhere if we end at the same point in terms of overall dollars.

 

[speedkilz88]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to get at.

I don't think Rodgers and Ryan having not proven themselves does their teams any favors or that it's even relevant for that matter.

The contracts are all basically the same. The Packers taking a bigger hit in year one may be atypical but it's not really meaningful because even with an average hit they're still at a lower cap number than Romo for this year.

Matt Ryan's first two years were relatively cheap and then his cap number sort of leveled off.

The point I was making is that other teams have high priced contracts for their QBs on the books and they are making it work without having to pray for a new contract in order to operate.

What any given player costs isn't all that important so long as you manage the cap efficiently. Dallas has not, that's why Romo has a 16M cap hit this year while guys with the same contract amounts are at least 4M lower.

What those teams basically did was accept that good QBs cost a lot and instead of trying to get cute with the cap year after year they just took a cap hit close to what the average would be. As a result, they don't have some ridiculous jump in cap number. The numbers are basically what they have been for the last couple years.

Dallas did not which is why Romo has reworked his contract for like 3 straight years now.

This must be over your head then. As I keep pointing out Rodgers didn't have the numbers at the time he signed so he signed a below market contract and they still took a 13 million cap hit in the first year which both factor in why they have a low hit now. That right there is luck, fortune and not typical for a team to get off that cheap on a franchise qb.

Ryan on the other hand was still on his first contract and was on a very young team with cheap contracts. So although his contract was identical to Romo's they could take slightly more cap hits due to the small contracts on their team. When he reaches a second contract like Romo is ending now and his veteran teammates have larger contracts then they to will be tighter with the cap.

It's just silly that you try to compare a 2nd contract of Romo to a 1st contract to Ryan.

 

[Hoofbite]

This must be over your head then. As I keep pointing out Rodgers didn't have the numbers at the time he signed so he signed a below market contract and they still took a 13 million cap hit in the first year which both factor in why they have a low hit now. That right there is luck, fortune and not typical for a team to get off that cheap on a franchise qb.

Ryan on the other hand was still on his first contract and was on a very young team with cheap contracts. So although his contract was identical to Romo's they could take slightly more cap hits due to the small contracts on their team. When he reaches a second contract like Romo is ending now and his veteran teammates have larger contracts then they to will be tighter with the cap.

It's just silly that you try to compare a 2nd contract of Romo to a 1st contract to Ryan.

Over my head?

My point wasn't to compare whether or not a player was underpaid or overpaid. Just that they are paid the same.

I was pointing out that the assumption that other teams will be in a similar cap position as soon as they have to sign their QBs is completely baseless because plenty of other teams already pay their QBs just as much.

How that has happened is irrelevant. It doesn't matter who is on what contract.

They are paid just as much as Romo and their teams are not in the same boat. That's the entire point. This idea that Dallas is only in the position it is in with Romo because he's a good QB and other teams will soon be in that position is just flat out wrong.

Feel free to keep winning whatever argument you're working on. I really don't care one way or the other about anything you've posted. The numbers are very close, if not the same, and their teams are not in the same position.

That is all.

 

[perrykemp]

. As I keep pointing out Rodgers didn't have the numbers at the time he signed so he signed a below market contract and they still took a 13 million cap hit in the first year which both factor in why they have a low hit now. That right there is luck, fortune and not typical for a team to get off that cheap on a franchise qb.

I wouldn't call it luck. In fact, at the time, the Packers took a BIG chance and OVERPAID a Rodgers who had less than 8 career starts to his name.

They made an educated guess that the guy they drafted was going to be become the quarterback they thought he could be and locked him up in a 6 year contract at, what looking back, was a absolute bargain.

Where I differ with you is I believe luck had very little to do with Ted Thompson's strategy with Aaron Rodgers.

Look at some of the other contracts the Packer have handed out for their own players -- example Jordy Nelson, and you will see the Packers making calculated bets on young talent early on in their careers and locking them up relatively early.

 

[Nightman]

I need some help from the cap gurus. I understand that we're pretty maxed out for 2013 and we'll not be major players in free agency. I've accepted the fact that Stephen Jones was lying thru his teeth to us a few weeks ago.

My question is how does the restructuring of several of our top players contracts affect our salary caps down the line? Did we essentially push more money into the future to get under the cap this year and therefore hurt our flexibility in the future? If so, when and how would recommend ending this perpetual cycle of bad money management?

It's only bad money management if you want to make big splashes in FA. The Boys obviously decided this wasn't the year for big personnel changes. A lot of the problems last year were due to injuries and coaching. They got Carr last year and decided to re-up Spencer. Doug Free's contract was set up to be restructured, but his play has changed that thought. And Romo's cap number can be reduced as well.

Ultimately the Cowboys play close to cap every year because they have the cash to pay signing bonuses and roster bonuses. The cap WILL go up and these restructures are also spread out over 2-4 years. When guys like Lee, Bryant and Smith are resigned their initial cap hits will be very small at first, giving the team time to shed bad contracts. The cap penalty hurt pretty bad considering the cap was 129m and is only 123m this year, but both of those will change after this year.

 

[speedkilz88]

I wouldn't call it luck. In fact, at the time, the Packers took a BIG chance and OVERPAID a Rodgers who had less than 8 career starts to his name.

They made an educated guess that the guy they drafted was going to be become the quarterback they thought he could be and locked him up in a 6 year contract at, what looking back, was a absolute bargain.

Where I differ with you is I believe luck had very little to do with Ted Thompson's strategy with Aaron Rodgers.

Look at some of the other contracts the Packer have handed out for their own players -- example Jordy Nelson, and you will see the Packers making calculated bets on young talent early on in their careers and locking them up relatively early.

And if Rodgers played like Matt Cassell? They gambled (educated or not) and won. I remember Jerry could have signed Romo sooner and he didn't and there were plenty of fans that wanted them to wait. (I wasn't one of them) But I'm not going to cry about like others about it.

 

[burmafrd]

It will go up in 2015 because of the tv revenue. All you have to do is look at all these new big contracts and see where teams are taking the big cap hits.

But how much? Andrew Brandt was right about the new CBA when he said the first couple of years would be flat and then it would rise slightly and MIGHT rise a fair amount in 2015 and the most likely time for a big raise was 2016.

BUT a lot of money is now going to retirement ( 1 Billion just for pre 1993 retirees) AND a lot is going to health benefits that will ONLY RISE from here on in.

So 8-10 million a year in advances in the Cap is NOT going to happen.