What Is Jerry Thinking?

[kmd24]

At any rate, I think some people are missing the forest for the trees a bit here. Yes, the deal isn't cap prohibitive, and neither are the deals for Sensabaugh and Scandrick. The argument isn't about whether or we're overpaying for these guys, the argument is about the logic in keeping the core of what's - at best - an average defence together and at worst, and complete gongshow.

I think what you're missing is that it is really hard to find guys that can play the position. Just look at the draft. There aren't that many 6'4", 315 lb guys that can play for squat.

Just because you don't think a guy is productive enough, that doesn't mean his replacement is waiting in the wings.

If you want to talk about recent foolish contract extensions, Jay Ratliff is where I would start. Ratliff is an excellent player, but he's 30, plays in a very physically demanding position, and is probably going to start dropping off while he's on a 5yr/$40 million contract with $18 million guaranteed. FWIW, I love Ratliff as a player, I think he outplayed his old contract, and there aren't many players I would rather see enjoy the financial rewards for all his hard work. But it's still a much worse decision than extending Spears for $19 million.

 

[Romo2Bryant4Six]

Were you this disappointed with Jordan farmar? Or did you realize that he was never going to be a starting point guard in the NBA? Either way he contributed when he was called upon.

spears deal is not egregious for his play

 

[CCBoy]

If it makes you feel better, the Patriots are basically copying what Jimmy Johnson did in the early 90's. So I'm basically advocating that we copy New England copying us.

Good imput...myself, I don't have problems in a game of comparisons. I just ride out my team and root for what are it's strengths. And right now, the strength of this Cowboy team is equal to the strengths of others in the field. Only it has to grow in the on field products from that.

A person such as Spears, just might water those roots. He's at least seen as functional in the role desired by the Cowboys.

Oh, and Jimmy didn't have the cap and had unlimited rounds to draft. Things changed from there. But in a here today, and gone tomorrow, built for parody...one has to view transition objectively, but not to where growth is stunted.

 

[SWG9]

I think what you're missing is that it is really hard to find guys that can play the position. Just look at the draft. There aren't that many 6'4", 315 lb guys that can play for squat.

Just because you don't think a guy is productive enough, that doesn't mean his replacement is waiting in the wings.

If you want to talk about recent foolish contract extensions, Jay Ratliff is where I would start. Ratliff is an excellent player, but he's 30, plays in a very physically demanding position, and is probably going to start dropping off while he's on a 5yr/$40 million contract with $18 million guaranteed. FWIW, I love Ratliff as a player, I think he outplayed his old contract, and there aren't many players I would rather see enjoy the financial rewards for all his hard work. But it's still a much worse decision than extending Spears for $19 million.

True enough, that's why you do your best to plan for these situations in advance.

Let's look at two examples in recent history, one positive, one negative, IMO:

We knew Flozell Adams and Marc Colombo were at the end of the line, so we drafted Doug Free with the hope that he would eventually replace one of them. We looked ahead, realized there was a potential problem, and got the replacement on the roster as soon as we could. We coached him up, let him develop, and he stepped in for Flo without missing a beat.

Game, set, match. That's how we should try to do it everytime.

Now let's look at the potential situation coming up with Anthony Spencer. We know the guy really hasn't been a difference maker at a crucial spot, we know his contract is coming up, and we know people tend to overpay for guys like this in FA. We also know that Victor Butler isn't the answer. We haven't really planned for this, we haven't drafted a replacement, and we really have no choice but to pay Spencer in FA or go into 2012 with a gaping hole opposite Ware.

Ideally, we should have had Spencer's replacement on the roster two years ago, but we neglected it, and now we're going to have to pay for it.

It's the mentality that I hate more than anything else, the same mentality that says we can draft for special teams because all the starters are safe.

I get that you can't have superstars at every single position and you need solid depth guys, it just drives me crazy that we resign and reward every single depth guy.

 

[SWG9]

Good imput...myself, I don't have problems in a game of comparisons. I just ride out my team and root for what are it's strengths. And right now, the strength of this Cowboy team is equal to the strengths of others in the field. Only it has to grow in the on field products from that.

A person such as Spears, just might water those roots. He's at least seen as functional in the role desired by the Cowboys.

I hear you brother, hopefully we're both back on here at midnight celebrating.

 

[CCBoy]

I hear you brother, hopefully we're both back on here at midnight celebrating.

Thanks for sharing here...but at midnight, I'll just be getting off work trying to move mail in support of our country. Even if 'the heads that be' want to terminate our job here, we're working our collective butts off to do our job and provide a good service for you.

I'll celebrate with you shortly after....:starspin

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

If it makes you feel better, the Patriots are basically copying what Jimmy Johnson did in the early 90's. So I'm basically advocating that we copy New England copying us.

I'm sorry you lost me there. What did Jimmy do in the 90's that New England is copying?

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

True, but I have noticed that they're 12-3 and have won 3 SB's in the last 10 years while fielding a competitive team almost every year.

Look at this way; Chris Canty was the last decent player Dallas let walk in FA. Do you ever miss him or kick yourself for letting him go?

no SBs in 7 years

 

[kmd24]

Let's look at two examples in recent history, one positive, one negative, IMO:

We knew Flozell Adams and Marc Colombo were at the end of the line, so we drafted Doug Free with the hope that he would eventually replace one of them. We looked ahead, realized there was a potential problem, and got the replacement on the roster as soon as we could. We coached him up, let him develop, and he stepped in for Flo without missing a beat.

Revisionist history. We actually drafted a bunch of guys (James Marten, Pat McQuistan, EJ Whitley, and Rob Petitti, even Sam Young after Free). Free was just the one that panned out. Marten was the only "first day" pick of the bunch. Free was a fourth rounder.

Game, set, match. That's how we should try to do it everytime.

If by that you mean pick a bunch of guys and hope one pans out, I agree. That's pretty much how everyone does it.

Now let's look at the potential situation coming up with Anthony Spencer. We know the guy really hasn't been a difference maker at a crucial spot, we know his contract is coming up, and we know people tend to overpay for guys like this in FA. We also know that Victor Butler isn't the answer. We haven't really planned for this, we haven't drafted a replacement, and we really have no choice but to pay Spencer in FA or go into 2012 with a gaping hole opposite Ware.

Ideally, we should have had Spencer's replacement on the roster two years ago, but we neglected it, and now we're going to have to pay for it.

Well, Spencer hasn't been on the team very long (drafted in 2007), so it's not like there have been all that many drafts in which we could do that. Nevertheless, we did draft Erik Walden in 2008 and then Victor Butler and Brandon Williams in 2009 to fill that role. We also signed Alex Albright as a free agent. If we don't sign Spencer, Butler will likely fill in and we'll draft another edge player in 2012.

It's the mentality that I hate more than anything else, the same mentality that says we can draft for special teams because all the starters are safe.

I get that you can't have superstars at every single position and you need solid depth guys, it just drives me crazy that we resign and reward every single depth guy.

It's not the mentality that we have. We would love to be able to replace middling players with young talent. We just keep missing on picks. In particular, every DB that we've drafted since Scandrick and Jenkins are no longer on the team (Hamlin, Wall, Mickens, Thomas, AOA, Deangelo Smith) and that has really hurt us in the secondary.

However, at some point you've got to see a guy for what he's worth. Spears is a pretty good player worth keeping at a price that allows him to be easily replaced down the road.

 

[Cowboyz88]

12 teams use a 3-4. 24 DE's. And you believe naming 3 guys (and really, only Campbell and Smith should be listed) disproves the "3-4 DEs don't get stats" crowd?

Methinks you should actually learn about the D before complaining about what parts are/are not acceptable.

Campbell = Second Round Pick, Smith = First Round Pick, Dorsey = First Round Pick (He IS listed because he IS getting these stats as a 3-4 DE THIS year).

J.J. Watt (First Rounder, almost 3.5 more tackles per game and seven more sacks than Spears) and Tyson Jackson (First Round, 50 tackles). I could keep going, but hopefully, you get the point.

Spears = First Round Pick. One of these things is not like the other, but oh yeah, DEs don't get stats...lol. Whatever.

Methinks you should learn what good value is in a draft.

Seriously, when did Cowboys fans get so brainwashed to accept what is clearly subpar/disappointing play from first round picks?

If Spears were a 5th round pick, I wouldn't care because he's such a non-factor and would be on-par with his draft position, but as it is, he's a first round pick who CAN'T START on his own team.

Geez, Lissemore (7th round, btw) has 10 more tackles and one more sack than Spears, and he hasn't had near the playing time Spears has had, although he's obviously beginning to play a lot more.

Why can't people see that Spears, while not as bad, is nearly as disappointing as Barbie was at his position? Because Jerry extended him? Because he's Ware's buddy?

 

[CCBoy]

Campbell = Second Round Pick, Smith = First Round Pick, Dorsey = First Round Pick (He IS listed because he IS getting these stats as a 3-4 DE THIS year).

J.J. Watt (First Rounder, almost 3.5 more tackles per game and seven more sacks than Spears) and Tyson Jackson (First Round, 50 tackles). I could keep going, but hopefully, you get the point.

Spears = First Round Pick. One of these things is not like the other, but oh yeah, DEs don't get stats...lol. Whatever.

Methinks you should learn what good value is in a draft.

Seriously, when did Cowboys fans get so brainwashed to accept what is clearly subpar/disappointing play from first round picks?

If Spears were a 5th round pick, I wouldn't care because he's such a non-factor and would be on-par with his draft position, but as it is, he's a first round pick who CAN'T START on his own team.

Geez, Lissemore (7th round, btw) has 10 more tackles and one more sack than Spears, and he hasn't had near the playing time Spears has had, although he's obviously beginning to play a lot more.

Why can't people see that Spears, while not as bad, is nearly as disappointing as Barbie was at his position? Because Jerry extended him? Because he's Ware's buddy?

Shoot, there you go. The Dallas coaching team should quit watching and evaluating game films here and now. They can now await your weekly stats sheet instead.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Shoot, there you go. The Dallas coaching team should quit watching and evaluating game films here and now. They can now await your weekly stats sheet instead.

Yup, they should be getting him ready for the Ring of Honor, or at least start him based on his great play...oh, wait.

 

[Eskimo]

The Patriots model showed us how important a great QB is. The Patriots have made just as many blunders with personnel as the Cowboys have over the years. But, Brady is *that* good and while I think Belichick's best days as a defensive mind are over, he is still good at creating a defensive that is tough in the red zone and that forces turnovers.

However, without Brady Belichick is probably out of a job by 2004.

I think the Patriots model has shown us that stockpiling draft picks can be used to your great advantage in various ways, but you have to use them. And that meshing skill sets with players may be just as important as actually finding talented players.








YR

The other big difference is the Patriots invest in the OL/TEs and vet WRs while the Cowboys invest in WRs and RBs. The trenches approach wins games. The Pats have themselves two great offensive weapons in Welker and Gronk that they use to great effectiveness behind that OL.

 

[CCBoy]

Yup, they should be getting him ready for the Ring of Honor, or at least start him based on his great play...oh, wait.

Who stated that? You? But do you have the pie graphs for the team meetings and film reviews?

 

[CCBoy]

The other big difference is the Patriots invest in the OL/TEs and vet WRs while the Cowboys invest in WRs and RBs. The trenches approach wins games. The Pats have themselves two great offensive weapons in Welker and Gronk that they use to great effectiveness behind that OL.

The Cowboys presently have Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, and Laurent Robinson with a talented bottom bunch. I think they did well there.

The Cowboys have not invested in safety since Roy Williams went South. They still haven't...but at offensive line, they went price heavy for veterans at the position, and due to value change and cap necessity, have started to draft at the position...now, what is your complaint? Safety?

I'd say that DeMarco Murray and Felix Jones looking pretty potent at this point....but many were doubting about Murray at season's start as well.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Who stated that? You? But do you have the pie graphs for the team meetings and film reviews?

Since you can't keep up, I'll give you the Cliff's Notes version.

IMO, Spears is a massive spare and disappointing first round pick.

His supporters love to espouse that I can't base his play on stats, saying that 3-4 DEs clearly don't get stats (I clearly grasp the concept that 3-4 DL occupy blockers so LBs can clean up), but I don't think they need to be nearly invisible either. I'm told to provide "proof" that he's as bad as I say.

SO, I post a number of examples of 3-4 DEs who DO get stats, and then you want to dismiss them. You guys can't have it both ways.

I also pointed out that the 3-4 DE leaders in said stats are 1st or 2nd round picks, just like Spears, yet he can't come close to them.

I also pointed out that he doesn't even start on his own team, yet you conveniently gloss right over that, as expected.

So, he doesn't start, can't compare to his peers, doesn't make tackles (even as a touted "run stopper"), doesn't sack the quarterback and isn't an effective leader.

Yeah, I can see why you're so up in arms.

 

[yimyammer]

They've not won a SB for six straight years. Yes, they are competitive, but missing on the draft has hurt them, especially on defense.

You're original point was about the success of the NE model, which has been a failure lately.

:laugh2: I'd take kind of "failure" in a heart beat

 

[Eskimo]

The Cowboys presently have Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, and Laurent Robinson with a talented bottom bunch. I think they did well there.

The Cowboys have not invested in safety since Roy Williams went South. They still haven't...but at offensive line, they went price heavy for veterans at the position, and due to value change and cap necessity, have started to draft at the position...now, what is your complaint? Safety?

I'd say that DeMarco Murray and Felix Jones looking pretty potent at this point....but many were doubting about Murray at season's start as well.

No, CC, you missed my point.

YR was taking an indirect shot at Romo by saying Brady generates wins even though he doesn't play with a great defense anymore. I was pointing out that Romo's situation has not been equivalent since he has played behind a poor OL since the end of the 2008 season.

Now the problem with our OL has been multiple picks in the past decade that did not pan out very well: Al Johnson (2nd), Stephen Peterman (3rd), USC OT (2nd), James Marten (3rd), Robert Brewster (3rd). That is ineptitude right there. Then we got caught with all these old OL that started to rapidly deteriorate in 2008 and we were caught under the weight of bad contracts that made it hard to rebuild the OL. We need to invest now to strengthen the interior as it is a large weakness right now that other teams really exploit.

Our drafting from 2007-9 was pretty poor and that is why the team is weak right now. Those players are supposed to be at their peak and we haven't gotten much of a return out of them. We started drafting better again in 2010 and 11 but it will take a bit of time to feel the full impact of those drafts.

In the meantime, we have to fill in gaps and I think the FO did a pretty good job in the last offseason with plugging up some holes. However, the interior OL and secondary are still major weaknesses.

Safety is a big weakness as is CB. I don't think we can rebuild in one offseason. Sensy and Jenkins are good players. Perhaps Oscan's play will improve with better coaching. Elam is okay as a stopgap and safety choice in this draft are weak although CB is supposed to be deep. I don't mind drafting either position but we have to go for value and not need. If the CB is the better player we should not draft safety for need.

 

[CCBoy]

Since you can't keep up, I'll give you the Cliff's Notes version.

IMO, Spears is a massive spare and disappointing first round pick.

His supporters love to espouse that I can't base his play on stats, saying that 3-4 DEs clearly don't get stats (I clearly grasp the concept that 3-4 DL occupy blockers so LBs can clean up), but I don't think they need to be nearly invisible either. I'm told to provide "proof" that he's as bad as I say.

SO, I post a number of examples of 3-4 DEs who DO get stats, and then you want to dismiss them. You guys can't have it both ways.

I also pointed out that the 3-4 DE leaders in said stats are 1st or 2nd round picks, just like Spears, yet he can't come close to them.

I also pointed out that he doesn't even start on his own team, yet you conveniently gloss right over that, as expected.

So, he doesn't start, can't compare to his peers, doesn't make tackles (even as a touted "run stopper"), doesn't sack the quarterback and isn't an effective leader.

Yeah, I can see why you're so up in arms.

Yep, you are a top shelf ring tapper with poor listening skills. Humor bounces right off that golden topped dome of yours.

The only arms up are yours praising yourself.

I'll slow the mind blurs down for you, and show you what Cliff Notes are about:

1. Marcus Spears was just resigned.

2. That means, through current evaluations of his play and that of others at position, Spears projects strongly in a Cowboy job description for their type of defense....not the Broncos, not the Cardinals, and not even the Patriots. COWBOYS!

3. That also, when interpreted, projects a role evaluation involving Coleman's role into the future. Unless you are into tea leaf readings, or some type of cosmic stat sheet, that means that Spears is being projected to fill a future role, at least for a rotational purpose at the defensive end position. He is very solid at that role.

4. You throw up a seasonal sack total and imply that your stat sheet total proves that Spears isn't functional for what the Cowboys are projecting for Spears. You have no direct connective element to give validity to filling the current need on Dallas. First, you assume spouting a sack total equates to Dallas getting their hands on that same sack total, that came even in a different set of evaluative conditions.

That fails by the assumption that Dallas is now able to acquire (1) the player with that total and (2) that they would continue to produce at that level while complying within the scheme that Rob Ryan brings to the table.

5. You ignore, in insulting Spears for not starting, that Coach Ryan probably has given him the lead role, due to his long history of playing within it as well as his familiarity to responding to the types of calls from Ryan, that Spears is just now starting to pick up. Coleman and Elam were BOTH acquired for what they brought to the now Dallas scheme, not through skillset, but functional knowledge of applications. It takes more time to pick up on this scheme transition, and the lockout didn't help at all.

Now run along, and act as you are the lead dancer in the NutCracker Ballet. And leave with the thought that Spears is nothing more than a crap load.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Yep, you are a top shelf ring tapper with poor listening skills. Humor bounces right off that golden topped dome of yours.

The only arms up are yours praising yourself.

I'll slow the mind blurs down for you, and show you what Cliff Notes are about:

1. Marcus Spears was just resigned.

Look, I have been mocked before for my criticism of RW31, Bradie and Newman, so anything you try to say to unnerve me will be ineffective.

Because you built most of your rebuttal off of #1, I'll remind you that he was allowed by the COWBOYS! (who value him so much...lol) to test the free agency market, and received...wait for it....

ZERO offers.

So, he came back to the team, tail between the legs, to a team who just lost Bowen (an UDFA who was MUCH better than Spears, btw) and needed a body for the season, and was re-signed.

His production, this year, has been as unimpressive as the rest of his career, but you keep on fighting the good fight.