What is the max amount you can pay a QB and still win a SB

[jazzcat22]

So some fans on here whine that the talent is over rated and not as good the FO says they are. I even said it myself at times, or at least ask the question are they really that good.
Dak has a lot more wins than losses. So did Dak carry the team to those wins then?

I mean you can't have it both ways, as the Dak detractors say he had surrounding talent that made those wins. Then they whine Jerry does not get good players in here.
So which is it?

I am not defending Dak as I am still on the fence, but much more for him than against him at this point compared going into last season. Then I was 50/50.
I still blame more on coaching than I do the players.

Just bringing up a point for further discussion time.

 

[Diehardblues]

Aaron Rodgers disagrees w/ you!!!!

And there's much evidence to the contrary. Take Brady out of the equation, due to having an all time great HC, and you don't get any success after being paid. Can't really think of any QB who has even made a super bowl since being paid.

Packers are always in the hunt as most consistent contender this era in NFC with what 5 championship appearances and about a dozen playoff appearances. Limiting the discussion to only SB winners is spinning a narrative to support an argument.

 

[Diehardblues]

Build that generational defense to carry a less than Elite QB. How many years within Cap can you keep it together? 3 maybe 4 years??

With an Elite QB you can remain a serious contender for 10-15 years.

How many generational defenses have we had this era compared to Elite QB’s. You tell me which is easier?

 

[CATCH17]

Build that generational defense to carry a less than Elite QB. How many years within Cap can you keep it together? 3 maybe 4 years??

With an Elite QB you can remain a serious contender for 10-15 years.

How many generational defenses have we had this era compared to Elite QB’s. You tell me which is easier?

Dallas will sign Dak.. We just have to look at the contract and then figure out from there when we have a shot at winning a championship again.

Our hope has to be that the CBA jumps considerably and Dallas doesn’t cave to his short term contract demands.

 

[G2]

Depends on the guaranteed price

 

[Diehardblues]

The Saints had three straight 7-9 seasons under the Brees / Peyton regime. But yet no one was screaming for their heads.
They weren't all that consistent. But more than Garrett.

Since Brees took over at QB they had 8 winning season, 5 losing season, and an 8-8 season.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor/

Made NFCC game 3 times, of course won a SB as well. Lost WC or Divisional round all the other times. 5 times for those that do not want to click the link, but want to comment anyway.

There’s always exceptions and examples we can spin to support a narrative but if we step back and take a broader view this era we’ll find that Elite QB’s are the best means to stay on top with a consistent contender in Cap era.

One exception with less than Elite QB is during Rookie contract which we missed IMO our best shot to win with Dak.

 

[Diehardblues]

Dallas will sign Dak.. We just have to look at the contract and then figure out from there when we have a shot at winning a championship again.

Our hope has to be that the CBA jumps considerably and Dallas doesn’t cave to his short term contract demands.

I agree. Dak isn’t going anywhere and it’s going to be tougher without an Elite QB.

Maybe we can built an Elite defense?

 

[jazzcat22]

There’s always exceptions and examples we can spin to support a narrative but if we step back and take a broader view this era we’ll find that Elite QB’s are the best means to stay on top with a consistent contender in Cap era.

Yes, agree. As you explained that in your other post.
An elite Defense or an elite any sub units will only stay together for 3 to 4 years, possibly 5, unless a team keeps drafting for that position while ignoring other positions.
Say a team that drafts OL every year and not S's or DT's. I won't name the team.

However, having elite QB for 12 years, you can cover a lot of warts.

 

[Bob-Lillys-War]

40M = 4 great DL players, for 10M a pop.

 

[conner01]

The biggest key to winning a SB is drafting well and adding a few impact free agents
As your STARS get toward the end of rookie deals you replace some in the draft and sign some
Even teams not winning a super bowl lose stars to FA and the chiefs will lose some but if you draft well you replace some of the talent you lost
No team can have all the talent they want

 

[Ranched]

The takeaway from the Eagles winning a SB with a journeyman qb like Foles should have been clear. You don’t need a great or even very good qb to win a Lombardi.

But that’s not how these NFL general managers and some fans think. They see the success Foles had playing behind the best OL in football in one of the league’s most dynamic schemes backed up by a deep, talented D and instead of saying, let’s build a roster like the Eagles, they think GET ME FOLES. Or, "Eagles should have kept Foles and let Wentz walk".

 

[jazzcat22]

40M = 4 great DL players, for 10M a pop.

Then the next year they will all want $20 million, as they become fake hot boys, so $80 million, double what Dak supposedly wants.

 

[CouchCoach]

The first thing any team must do is have a plan and part of that is how high they will go for a QB.

KC will pay Mahomes because it is easier to find 1 high quality QB than 11 high quality defenders. He will always give them the chance to stay ion any game. as long as they give him weapons.

SF will struggle to keep that D together once those players start coming up on that DL and a team built on the D concept is more prone to injury. 11 D players vs 1 QB. They decided to go with a Tier 2 QB, although he didn't even look that good in the playoffs, and build the D, not surprising considering the GM's history.

I cannot argue that a Tier 1 QB is superior to the others in every way what I can argue is that there are just so many to go around. Is Wilson a Tier 1? Jackson? Watson? Brady? Brees? Rodgers? The going rate on a Tier 1 is going to be in the 35-40M range, Mahomes will top that but he's on a Tier all by himself.

Some teams are going to be relegated to doing it with a Tier 2 they feel is good enough but when that QB wants Tier 1 money, they have to chew on that one a while and look at the rest of their roster and salaries.

What the Cowboys have realized is that another team might be able to pay a Tier 2 Tier 1 money but one already paying 5 players on that O top 6 money, that's Tier 1 at 5 positions and 1 on the D, is going to have to be dead on at the other positions with overachievers. Is that this team?

I would rather have Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, Rothliesberger or Wilson than Prescott or even take a shot with Burrow or Tua but that is not feasible. Especially when they've conveniently for the player, put all of their eggs in one basket. NO has a little leverage with Brees with Bridgewater and Hill at backup. The Cowboys don't have any leverage with Prescott.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Trevor Semien would be dirt ball cheap. Yall remember what he done to us a couple years back when he was in Denver?

Geno Smith would be cheap as hell. So would A.J. McCarron , Landry Jones, and Taylor Cornelius. Not to mention Case Keenum, Jameil Showers, Brock Osweiler and every QB in the draft.

Build up on the defensive side of the ball and bring in a bus driver at QB. Like Parcells always preferred to do. If that floats your boat.

 

[CouchCoach]

40M = 4 great DL players, for 10M a pop.

Not great, great will be close to 20M each. Think those SF DL will go for close to 10M?

That's the challenge. The great DL are getting into the 20's, the CB's are already there as well as the WR's are knocking on that door.

Every team has to decide what they're building. Do you think the Joneses actually have a plan? Have they ever had a plan? They're year to year and not good at their job and the record proves that.

 

[Diehardblues]

The takeaway from the Eagles winning a SB with a journeyman qb like Foles should have been clear. You don’t need a great or even very good qb to win a Lombardi.

But that’s not how these NFL general managers and some fans think. They see the success Foles had playing behind the best OL in football in one of the league’s most dynamic schemes backed up by a deep, talented D and instead of saying, let’s build a roster like the Eagles, they think GET ME FOLES. Or, "Eagles should have kept Foles and let Wentz walk".

But these are the exceptions not the rule and the Egirls haven’t looked like Serious contenders since.

 

[garyo1954]

I think it was Jerry, may be wrong, but whoever was explaining the cap and said to the effect you have to allocate a certain percentage to each position. In the case of the QB if that percentage is 25%, then you have to spread that 25% over two/three players. If you go over that 25% then you hinder your ability to bring in players you want, and be competitive in the draft (you're more than likely to trade away a pick knowing you're strapped to afford that "luxury").

Sort of like a household budget. One day you look at your bank account and see extra money (or maybe you've been saving for a purpose). At any rate you see you have the money to get those new tires, TV, fridge, whatever it is.

Then you get the mail and see the insurance has gone up, taxes have gone up, city utilities have gone up, the gas company is asking more and the dang phone is going to cost you more.

Poof! There goes the luxuries that had you dreaming. Now you have to figure out how to pay all these bills without spending all you have. And you realize well as long as I live here the city utilities and the taxes are what they are. Those I can't change.

So you end up looking for cheaper insurance, cheaper gas company, and cheaper phone service.

Then the next day your cable bill goes up.

And that's how the salary cap works.

 

[Diehardblues]

Not great, great will be close to 20M each. Think those SF DL will go for close to 10M?

That's the challenge. The great DL are getting into the 20's, the CB's are already there as well as the WR's are knocking on that door.

Every team has to decide what they're building. Do you think the Joneses actually have a plan? Have they ever had a plan? They're year to year and not good at their job and the record proves that.

Correct . Regardless our HC this era.

occasionally we have had a year we think we’re getting closer but without a plan and consistent drafts and sound personnel decisions very difficult to maintain.

 

[Chuck 54]

We have to pay DAK....that's just a clear fact because if we don't pay him, we're going to be playing with a journeyman QB and hoping to strike gold in the draft.

I really like what Cooper brings to the table when healthy, but we do not have to pay him...we don't even need to tag him. We could sign a veteran and draft a WR and pair those guys with Gallup and possibly Cobb and be just fine.

If we don't pay Jones, we are in an interesting situation because no one else on our defense is close to his level. We will have to sign a veteran or use our first round pick on a CB or strike gold in a later round.

 

[dckid]

Elite QB’s are the clearest path to remain a consistent contender over an era despite other weaknesses and shortcoming on the roster due to the Cap.

And the more times you can take it to the brink the more opportunity you have of breaking thru.

Limiting the results to only winning Super Bowls is creating a narrative to support an argument.

The teams with Elite QB’s are more often and consistently making deep runs in the playoffs to championship games and Super Bowls.

It’s whether the QB is elite. If you have an elite guy you will have to pay him. Yes you can have three cheap years but the hope is with an elite guy you are always in the mix. So the Dak issue is I don’t think he is elite. Paying him 35-40 million is stupid because he will never be Wilson, Rodgers, Watson, Mahomes, Brady, Brees, etc.
To me he will be in the middle tier always. Nothing wrong with that he can still be your franchise guy you can still make a SB. Look at the guys like Flacco, Eli, Gannon, Brad Johnson, Matt Ryan, Cam. Last two might be a bit better.