What the history of SB HCs can teach us about JG

Diehardblues

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Reality makes a great point while I’m not sure it influences Jerry’s motives or decision making process. HC this era do tend to be fired before the 5 year window without more success or winning a Super Bowl.

Here’s some great HC that had longer tenures without winning a SB.

Andy Reid
Marv Levy
Chuck Knox
Marty Schottenheimer
Dan Reeves
Don Coryell
Bud Grant
George Allen
Bum Phillips

Surely there are more but those off the top of my head. Wayyyyy too much emphasis on great coaching this era correlated with winning championships. Maybe as bad as QB’s.
 
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Diehardblues

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Actually, I think you missed the point of the stats. It shows that coaches who win SBs do it in the first five years of their tenure with that team. Of all the SB head coaches to win a SB, only some of the all time greats like Noll, Landry, and Madden ever won their first SB after the 5th year with that team.
It would be an interesting list to see how many made it to a Super Bowl after their 5th year but didn’t win it.
 

Diehardblues

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Oh I agree with that :D

I am on record saying I wish Garrett had been fired years ago. Even if the Cowboys win a Super Bowl under Garrett (which I do not think will happen unless every team in front of us suffers serious injuries), I would have no faith in him at all to win a second one.
Garrett should have never been named “ the future of the Dallas Cowboys” in the most unprecedented dysfunctional action taken by an owner or GM in modern NFL history which illustrates how ridiculous our situation is.

Our best chance is if the league would mandate all owners follow Jerry’s lead and be their teams GM. That would be our best chance to win another Super Bowl. Jerry probably knows more football than most owners just not all the GM, VP and HC’s across the league.

Otherwise were at a distinct disadvantage with the rest of the league. Only reason we’ve been as competitive this era is we had a HC for about 4 years of the last 20+ years who built just enough of a team to carry us this far and then lucked out on a QB to carry us the rest of the way.

Now, we’re seeing what we are without either. A hope and a prayer we have another QB.
 

Bobhaze

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Reality makes a great point while I’m not sure it influences Jerry’s motives or decision making process. HC this era do tend to be fired before the 5 year window without more success or winning a Super Bowl.

Here’s some great HC that had longer tenures without winning a SB.

Andy Reid
Marv Levy
Chuck Knox
Marty Schottenheimer
Dan Reeves
Don Coryell
Bud Grant
George Allen
Bum Phillips

Surely there are more but those off the top of my head. Wayyyyy too much emphasis on great coaching this era correlated with winning championships. Maybe as bad as QB’s.
Great list, great point.
Thing is though, all those guys except Schottenheimer, Coryell, and Bum Phillips at least won conference championships.
 

Diehardblues

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Great list, great point.
Thing is though, all those guys except Schottenheimer, Coryell, and Bum Phillips at least won conference championships.

I don’t recall Coryell going to Super Bowl? Did Marty with SD? All those years with Chiefs he didn’t. And Bum never did. They made it there but didn’t win it.

Edit: Sorry Bob, you meant them as the exception .

I listed those great names because your argument was about winning Super Bowls.
 

Verdict

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Actually, I think you missed the point of the stats. It shows that coaches who win SBs do it in the first five years of their tenure with that team. Of all the SB head coaches to win a SB, only some of the all time greats like Noll, Landry, and Madden ever won their first SB after the 5th year with that team.

Yeah. I got your premise. I just don't buy into the relevancy of your point.
 

Diehardblues

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To me the fairest evaluation of Garrett is not the rest of the league which is difficult for me to see another situation like ours so I hold Garrett up to the other Jerry puppets this era.

How would you compare Garrett to them?
 

Verdict

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Some of you get way too hung up on statistics. Statistics can imply whatever position you want for them to support.

Jerry has made some poor decisions as GM over the years, but he was also an integral part of the 90s Cowboyswho won 3 SBs.

He has taken a very different approach during the Garrett tenure and the team has really improved vastly as a result. We have a FANTASTIC young team that will get better with age.

We have a great talent acquisition guy and have really been drafting well overall. Jerry was a huge part of the reason for poor teams during a huge chunk of time. But he has made some great decisions in the past few years that are paying huge dividends.
 

Diehardblues

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Let’s assume Garrett never wins a SB. Does that necessarily make him a bad coach?

If Jerry has waded thru all the crap and criticism over the last 20+ years why do we think he’s going to cave in now?

Naw, he has someone he’s comfortable with and helps maintain Jerry’s ambitions while keeping the Cowboys from totally collapsing with just enough success to sell hope and has gotten close enough a couple times for Jerry to almost reach his goal.

Jerry thinks he’s hit it again with Dak and Zeke so we’ll go down this pipe dream road until it dries up. Garrett is just along for the ride. The buffer, puppet style. This is our destiny with Jerry for better or worse.
 

Diehardblues

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Some of you get way too hung up on statistics. Statistics can imply whatever position you want for them to support.

Jerry has made some poor decisions as GM over the years, but he was also an integral part of the 90s Cowboyswho won 3 SBs.

He has taken a very different approach during the Garrett tenure and the team has really improved vastly as a result. We have a FANTASTIC young team that will get better with age.

We have a great talent acquisition guy and have really been drafting well overall. Jerry was a huge part of the reason for poor teams during a huge chunk of time. But he has made some great decisions in the past few years that are paying huge dividends.
You’re hoping they’re going to pay huge dividends. And why results matter.
 

Diehardblues

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I never knew that 5 years is the modern window for NFL head coaches to win a SB. History seems pretty clear.
Just for the record this is only a listing of what last 15 years. I’m pretty certain this hasn’t always been the case.

Plus Belichick, Carroll, Kubiak and Coughlin didn’t win it with their 1st team in the league which kinda skews this a little anyway.

Ultimately this history gathered here isn’t needed to bash Garrett. He’s going to be under appreciated without more success.
 

ShortRound

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There's was this exact on the Ticket weeks ago. Craig from the musers lead the conversation, he looked at all of the other major sports though, not just football and well came to the same conclusion you did. 5 years is the magic number.

Garrett is going up against lots of odds.

The discussion happened because of an article posted by a source I can't link. But google it.
 
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Motown12

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Jerry has sat in his box and watched Garrett make mistake after mistake . I really have to believe at this point Jerry dosent expect Garrett to ever get to a SB . Garrett makes Jerry feel comfortable on a day to day basis . Garrett dosent intimidate Jerry or threaten his power . Garrett is easy for Jerry to work with and dose what he is told .

This is obviously very important to Jerry because he could easily research and get the best coach money could buy but that coach would have a dominant personality that Jerry would have to contend and compete with for top attention . As long as Garrett has not totally lost control of the team I think the job is his and if a change is made Garrett will get promoted and a new coach will come in .

Looks to me like Garrett is family and is here to stay . I know that paints a grim picture but I feel he would have been gone by now if it was not true

2011-2013: His first 3 years he had a hall pass as Jerry gives him time to learn on the job and rebuild the roster.
2014: Then boom 12-4 before getting Blandio'd in GB robbing Tony Romo of his greatest season and the Cowboys best December in forever.
2015: Romo gets hurt and JG is incapable of winning a game with a backup QB. I heard Stephen Jones highly critical of JG on the radio toward the end of that year. The team goes 4-12 but JG has a built in excuse, at least in Jerry's mind with no Tony Romo.
2016: The team catches lighning in the bottle with 2 rookies on offense before once again losing to GB in the playoffs.
2017: 9-7 but JG has the Zeke excuse.

I know all of this is common knowledge but I wanted to write it down just to show that it seems like every time JG is on the hot seat he rebounds with a good year by Jerry's standards. I say that only because winning seasons and losing in the divisional round used to be considered a failure for this franchise. Now? in 7 full seasons, JG has had 3 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances and one wildcard playoff win. This is deemed not only acceptable by Jerry Jones but he constantly praises his HC. It's sad how low the bar has been set for this once proud franchise. Only in Cincy has a coach been given this long with such little success.
 

foofighters

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Why?

Garrett is perfect for Jerry’s ego and pursuit of proving he’s a football guy.

Garrett wins just enough to prevent a collapse and recieves more criticism while not looking for the spotlight with a bigger ego who the media and fans would give more credit too.

Why would Jerry let go of that?
Jason takes the focus off the real problem: Jerry Freaking Jones. Jason isn't going anywhere .
 

Bobhaze

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2011-2013: His first 3 years he had a hall pass as Jerry gives him time to learn on the job and rebuild the roster.
2014: Then boom 12-4 before getting Blandio'd in GB robbing Tony Romo of his greatest season and the Cowboys best December in forever.
2015: Romo gets hurt and JG is incapable of winning a game with a backup QB. I heard Stephen Jones highly critical of JG on the radio toward the end of that year. The team goes 4-12 but JG has a built in excuse, at least in Jerry's mind with no Tony Romo.
2016: The team catches lighning in the bottle with 2 rookies on offense before once again losing to GB in the playoffs.
2017: 9-7 but JG has the Zeke excuse.

I know all of this is common knowledge but I wanted to write it down just to show that it seems like every time JG is on the hot seat he rebounds with a good year by Jerry's standards. I say that only because winning seasons and losing in the divisional round used to be considered a failure for this franchise. Now? in 7 full seasons, JG has had 3 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances and one wildcard playoff win. This is deemed not only acceptable by Jerry Jones but he constantly praises his HC. It's sad how low the bar has been set for this once proud franchise. Only in Cincy has a coach been given this long with such little success.
Well said. And Jerry is apparently ok with no playoff success. The Garrett era of 8 years and counting wouldn’t be tolerated anywhere else except Cincinnati.
 
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