What's the Difference between a "Key" Player Loss and a "Regular" Player Loss?

Phoenix-Talon

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IMO...Absolutely Nothing!

Underlying Topic: Is Torrin Tucker considered a "Key" loss or a "regular" loss to the Cowboys' OL?

This Thread has nothing to do with whether or not the OL replacement are an upgrade or whether or not the OL will be effective this year. That said, ...what makes a player be considered "KEY" ...or what's the difference between a "Key player" and a "regular" player?

Note of Caution: Consider the following carefully, and read it all before you make your decision.

Apparently, many fans (not exclusively here), believe that a player must have large stat numbers, or be able to perform with a certain effectiveness within a specified number of years experience on any given NFL team (let's say the first 5-years) before they can even be thought of as a "key" player.

For the purpose of this discussion, let's use any NFL position as an example ...let's use an Offensive Lineman.

Scenario: OL veterans with 13 years probably would be considered "key" players over regUlar OL players with 3 years ...wouldn't you agree?

Discussion: The more seniority a player obtains usually denotes increased value to the team (not always; but More often than not). The long-time veteran has the opportunity of knowing the play-book, knowing what the coaches expect, know his teammates and most importantly knowing the individual OL players and how they think.

OL players don't have the benefit of accruing significant yards, number of interception, number of fumble recoveries, etc. There is a matter of placing a pivitol block for the RB, protecting the QB, allowing sufficient time for a play to develop, block-defend-block-protect. That means that the purest barometer to measure the effectiveness of any given OL, are their collective qualities aforementioned above. As such the strength of the OL is measure by the weakest OL player.

Any loss (due to injury, bad season, trades, cuts, etc) has an impact on the OL machine. You can replace the player/parts of a machine and make it run better, or worse, but it will not run exactly the same. That's why every player, 1st string, 2nd team, backup, or rotation depth player on the OL should be considered a "Key" player.

Usually, not always, when a player/part of the OL/machine is replaced, it can cause a strain on the other operational players/parts of the machine - at least until the part is accepted or is seated into the machine. In summary, the book below offered me guidance in seekIng an answer to the topic question. The answer is samantics! IMO ...you don't have to be an NFL play-maker to be a "key" player.

Vintage ...this thread is dedicated to you ...
sports.gif


This book is a compilation of various samantics, definitions as they apply to sport-related terms ...(e.g., "key" NFL players versus "regular" NFL players).
 

Vintage

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As soon as I saw this, I knew what it was.

There is a huge difference. A key loss for us would have been, say, a loss of Roy Williams. Or Terence Newman. Or Demarcus Ware.

Someone of high value.

A player loss is just that; someone who isn't back on the roster. Tucker is that. It has nothing to do with money. Tucker could have offered to play for free, and he'd have still been packing his bags. This loss will have no impact on the team. None. So...its not a "key" loss.

This thread is nothing more than you trying to save face. I believe this is either the 3rd or 4th different time you have attempted to do so.

I wouldn't poke holes in every one of your arguements if you would just admit you were wrong, and move on...

This is getting comical PT. You keep embarassing yourself on these boards in front of everyone. And the sad part is, I am not really even trying to. Its taking almost no effort for me.

Cut your losses. Let this thread die into obscurity.

Or turn this into a 10-pager, of which, I will once again attack your arguements. (as long as it remains quiet here at work...no promises)

Your choice.

Vote for obscurity. It really is in your best interest.
 

SkinsandTerps

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Vintage said:
There is a huge difference. A key loss for us would have been, say, a loss of Roy Williams. Or Terence Newman. Or Demarcus Ware.

Someone of high value.

Not Bledsoe, Glenn, Owens, OR (dare I say it)...Adams ?

If I am off-base in this response I apologize. I cant read a PT post at this time. No offense PT. Its the beverages.
 

the kid 05

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come on vintage...PT just trying to reach 3000 posts :cool:
 

Funxva

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SkinsandTerps said:
Not Bledsoe, Glenn, Owens, OR (dare I say it)...Adams ?

If I am off-base in this response I apologize. I cant read a PT post at this time. No offense PT. Its the beverages.

You are drunk at 0815? I understand.. Being a skins fan... ;)
 

Vintage

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SkinsandTerps said:
Not Bledsoe, Glenn, Owens, OR (dare I say it)...Adams ?

If I am off-base in this response I apologize. I cant read a PT post at this time. No offense PT. Its the beverages.

Those would also be key losses.

I wasn't actually going to list the entire roster and break it down into key losses or player losses. I just gave a couple of quick examples.

Those, that you suggested, would have been key losses.

Torrin Tucker is not a key loss. Losing Torrin Tucker will have no impact on our team negatively.

Thus, not a key loss.
 

Vintage

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the kid 05 said:
come on vintage...PT just trying to reach 3000 posts :cool:

LOL.

The sad part is, if he keeps this thread going, there is a chance for him to reach 3000 and me to reach 1000.
 

Funxva

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SkinsandTerps said:
haha. Not drunk but certainly tipsy.

I will sleep it off by 1.

Ohh to not have to work. (6 AM - 3 PM shift)
 

SkinsandTerps

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Vintage said:
Those would also be key losses.

I wasn't actually going to list the entire roster and break it down into key losses or player losses. I just gave a couple of quick examples.

Those, that you suggested, would have been key losses.

Torrin Tucker is not a key loss. Losing Torrin Tucker will have no impact on our team negatively.

Thus, not a key loss.

Like I said I didnt read his post thoroughly. I was simply responding to you.

But I think any of those key offensive losses might be more detrimental than any of the defensive losses that you listed.

Depth at those positions are what can make or break this team. Currently the depth is questionable or unproven.

I fully expect the Cowboys to be on an offensive rampage during the draft and FA over the next 2 years.
 

Phoenix-Talon

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Vintage said:
As soon as I saw this, I knew what it was.

I knew I couldn't get anything by you Vintage.:rolleyes:

There is a huge difference. A key loss for us would have been, say, a loss of Roy Williams. Or Terence Newman. Or Demarcus Ware. Someone of high value.

I disagree with you there Vintage. I believe there's a huge difference between "Key" player and "play-makers." Any player loss effects a team. Now granted, some losses have more impact long term than immediate ...but a loss will affect some players as "Key" and Others as "regular. Let's take the DL coach ...Torrin Tucker's loss is not as much of a "Key" loss to the DL as it was for the OL coach.

This thread is nothing more than you trying to save face. I believe this is either the 3rd or 4th different time you have attempted to do so. I wouldn't poke holes in every one of your arguements if you would just admit you were wrong, and move on...This is getting comical PT. You keep embarassing yourself on these boards in front of everyone. And the sad part is, I am not really even trying to. Its taking almost no effort for me.

Stop fooling yourself Vinatge. I'm no more making a fool of your persistency than you are. BTW, this is besides the point, just address the topic.

Or turn this into a 10-pager, of which, I will once again attack your arguements. (as long as it remains quiet here at work...no promises)
Your choice.

No it was a chice you made by asking me the same laim question about in un-related posts. Now deal with it. You have made a very weak defense BTW!
 

the kid 05

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Funxva said:
You are drunk at 0815? I understand.. Being a skins fan... ;)
he's trying to drown away his sorrows i pitty this guy him being a skins fan and all :p:
 

lspain1

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Phoenix-Talon said:
IMO...Absolutely Nothing!

Underlying Topic: Is Torrin Tucker considered "Key" loss to the Cowboys

This Thread has nothing to do with whether or not the OL replacement are an upgrade or whether or not the OL will be effective this year. That said, ...what makes a player be considered "KEY" ...or what's the difference between a "Key player" and a "regular" player?

Some discussion here. In all cases (and I do mean all), the question on 'key' vs 'regular' comes down to talent and depth at the position. I have an Eagles example for you from last season in the first game vs Atlanta. Your MLB Trotter gets himself thrown out for the game by indulging in some pre-game festivities. Was that a 'key' loss? Trotter is clearly a leader on the defense. I think your answer would be a clear yes.

Last years loss of Adams to use your Tucker example is another clear yes because Tucker, for the games he played, was the worst LT (and maybe OT) in all of football. Adams was 'key' because his talent was so superior to his backup.

Let's take your argument to our current free safety Keith "Bull's Eye" Davis. He is considered a solid player, excellent on special teams, and probably better suited to a SS position rather than FS where we play him. We have a veteran backup who exhibited alcohol probems last season with the Texans and a newly drafted player who probably will not be ready to take over this season. Our depth at this position is not sufficient to cover the loss should Davis manage to get himself fatally shot over the next few days driving down the LBJ freeway on his way to church. I put Davis, even though he is not an elite talent, as a 'key' player.

One last player to mention...Greg Ellis. Here is a solid player who has been a team leader and one of the only significant pass rush contributors on a Cowboys defense who have exhibited, on the whole, an anemic pass rush. Parcells wants Ellis to morph a bit and become a pass rushing specialist as part of a nickel defense for the Cowboys. This means he needs to learn some new skills and modify his style to play upright occasionally. Ellis is unhappy about this new role primarily because he believes it results in him playing fewer downs and will hurt his earning power. While Ellis' contributions in the past have been significant (although arguably not up to his draft position) the Cowboys change in defensive alignment and depth on the front seven might limit the damage were Ellis to be hurt or so angry as to not play well. In short, Ellis may no longer be a 'key' player.

In summary, in today's NFL talent and depth are at a premium. Only in cases where a team has someone waiting in the wings, will the loss of a starter not be a 'key' loss. It is wehy injuries matter so much in ther NFL today. Your argument holds up well in my opinion PT.
 

SkinsandTerps

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Funxva said:
Ohh to not have to work. (6 AM - 3 PM shift)

Seems like you are hard at work right now... :rolleyes:

:laugh1:

When I wake up, the wife has some great football food planned. (I needed a fix)

Damn, I hate the offseason.
 

the kid 05

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Phoenix-Talon said:
One teams loss is indeed another team's gain.
PT i highly doubt any one will gain with Torrin i could block better then he and i weight in at 200 lbs at 5'11 :p:
 

Phoenix-Talon

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the kid 05 said:
come on vintage...PT just trying to reach 3000 posts :cool:

Wow ...the BIG 3,000th Post! I never realized that ...thanks tk05. I'm also working on my 3rd year here at the Zone!:)
 

the kid 05

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17 more to go PT :) getting nervious(sP)? lol
 
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