When Lamb Returns, is Flournoy WR 3?

[StarW]

Just curious what y'all think. I'm all for getting the best players for your system on the field.

At this point, I think it's pretty clear Flournoy is developing and has a much higher ceiling than Tolbert.

As much as it hurts, I think you have to give Flournoy the nod at WR3 on the depth chart. He has earned it.

Check this out, Flournoy had 6 targets that resulted in 3 catches for 30 yards on just 16 snaps. Tolbert had 1 reception from Prescott for 8 yards on 50 total offensive snaps (91% snap share). I think Tolberts snaps need to be divided between Flournoy and Turpin because they flat out-produce him on the field and look to be way more efficient.

 

[blueblood70]

NO

 

[blueblood70]

Check this out, Flournoy had 6 targets that resulted in 3 catches for 30 yards on just 16 snaps. Tolbert had 1 reception from Prescott for 8 yards on 50 total offensive snaps (91% snap share). I think Tolberts snaps need to be divided between Flournoy and Turpin because they flat out-produce him on the field and look to be way more efficient.

Fans feel a lot of ways but we don't get what we want we think James Houston should get 50% of the snaps that Sam Williams is getting they should cut his in half and give him the to Houston and he's not getting them we don't think he's a better player and yet we're not going to get our way the coaches feel what they feel for some strange reason and they know more than us and I'm going to trust there's a good reason for this...

I don't know what it is but they must need or want something and feel Tolbert needs to have those snaps.. I don't know what it is could be the blocking could be special teams I don't know what it is but i'm going to have to trust you must be a good reason.

 

[StarW]

Turpin looks like he breathes a sigh of relief every time he gets up from a tackle


I think you absolutely wanna use flournoy to fill in the gaps of the offense. Tough yardage

Yeah, but they both need to be above Tolbert on the depth chart. I mean just last week Tolbet was still WR2 hoggin 91% of the snap share.

But Flournoy stil had 3x his production on less than 1/3 the numberof offensive snaps JT got. It's crazy we're over here talking about it on the zone. W T F are these "coaches" talking about over there at the star? I guess they want to wait until the season's over to have this conversation. So, I guess they gotta wait 2 more weeks to shake it up?

 

[links18]

It'll be Mingo and you will be told to like it.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Check this out, Flournoy had 6 targets that resulted in 3 catches for 30 yards on just 16 snaps. Tolbert had 1 reception from Prescott for 8 yards on 50 total offensive snaps (91% snap share). I think Tolberts snaps need to be divided between Flournoy and Turpin because they flat out-produce him on the field and look to be way more efficient.

Very good post, and this is how we should be viewing things. Any NFL receiver is going to be able to make a few catches if we give them enough snaps. This was the red flag on Tolbert going back to last season. Yea he put up 49 catches for 600+ yards, but he also did it getting an excessively high number of snaps. He ran He ran 553 routes last season and only had 600 yards. Looking at those right around him in terms of routes ran Malik Nabers ran 556 and put up 1200. Jordan Addison had 552 and put up 900. Good receivers are going to average more than roughly a yard per route ran on average.

 

[StarW]

I don't know why people are so overly focused on that you're right there's only so many targets those guys are not gonna have the games they had now that the lineup is gonna be back full.

Who was too worried about like there's a whole post about Blue not doing this and that who cares our team looked like crap on defense and until that's fixed it probably doesn't matter but when you're talking about your starting rotation you're right that's where all the targets are going They're going to be picking up scraps but I bet Turpin is used more than anyone else because he's a Swiss Army knife he we miss his speed and also field position when he's returned being a returner.. So he will get even more snaps on offense because he's going to be more critical in the game...

Flo is more like Ced wilson right now he's going to have to wait his turn... Tammy gets in the game make some big plays and next year you might be consider our number two if you keep progressing like Miles Austin took three years to get where he was and we may lose George Pickens because he's not gonna want number two money we're gonna draft another wide receiver in the first three rounds But that will be his opportunity he needs to blow up in the preseason training camp and practices he needs to be more than just good he needs to be spectacular and get the coaches attention.... Yes he had one good Grant game but so did Ced Wilson I don't know how many good games he had.. But he never became a starter so everyone's overrating some of these players right now let's see what he does more we need to see more...

Not really. Wilson didn't do anything until year 4 where he peaked with 602 yards.

Year one he sat out injured. Year 2 he had 5 catches for a measly 46 yards. Year 3 he had 14 catches for 189 yards. Year 4 he peaked 45 catches for 602 yards. Fans tend to remeber that long 75 yards reception highlight, but that wasn't the norm.

Flournoy already has 13 reception for 179 yards in year 2 as WR5, bro. And he's produced in spite of his limited snap count.

Why do Cowboys fans alway try to hype up how good Cedric Wilson Jr. was? I mean liked him, but he's a journey man JAG. Compare him to Tolbert if you want, but Flournoy has showed more with less opportunity, and that's why fans talk about his potential.

Here's my Cedric Wilson Jr receipts.

 

[StarW]

Fans feel a lot of ways but we don't get what we want we think James Houston should get 50% of the snaps that Sam Williams is getting they should cut his in half and give him the to Houston and he's not getting them we don't think he's a better player and yet we're not going to get our way the coaches feel what they feel for some strange reason and they know more than us and I'm going to trust there's a good reason for this...

I don't know what it is but they must need or want something and feel Tolbert needs to have those snaps.. I don't know what it is could be the blocking could be special teams I don't know what it is but i'm going to have to trust you must be a good reason.

Nothing makes sense about it, but that's just the Cowboys. Flournoy is the better blocker and receiver. I mean dude put up 19 on bench and weighs over 200 lbs. It appears likehe likes to get physical in the run and screen game.

When you look at the data, you'll do nothing but scratch your head.

It's crazy that these coaches have all thes advanced stats + AI, and the decision makers still think it's a solid idea to leave Tolbert out on the field. Also, Flournoy plays on teams.

I don't mean to brag, but I just don't get it...

 

[jblaze2004]

Doubtful. Even playing better in the game Flournoy won’t jump over Tolbert even though he should. With Lamb out Tolbert still put up pedestrian numbers. Tolbert looks like a JAG out there. He makes a nice play every 3-4 games and that’s it.

 

[Pass2Run]

Not really. Wilson didn't do anything until year 4 where he peaked with 602 yards.

Year one he sat out injured. Year 2 he had 5 catches for a measly 46 yards. Year 3 he had 14 catches for 189 yards. Year 4 he peaked 45 catches for 602 yards. Fans tend to remeber that long 75 yards reception highlight, but that wasn't the norm.

Flournoy already has 13 reception for 179 yards in year 2 as WR5, bro. And he's produced in spite of his limited snap count.

Why do Cowboys fans alway try to hype up how good Cedric Wilson Jr. was? I mean liked him, but he's a journey man JAG. Compare him to Tolbert if you want, but Flournoy has showed more with less opportunity, and that's why fans talk about his potential.

Here's my Cedric Wilson Jr receipts.

This is true. Wilson also had a bunch of other good receivers around him, which made him better.

Flournoy also makes Lamb and Pickens better.

 

[blueblood70]

Nothing makes sense about it, but that's just the Cowboys. Flournoy is the better blocker and receiver. I mean dude put up 19 on bench and weighs over 200 lbs. It appears likehe likes to get physical in the run and screen game.

When you look at the data, you'll do nothing but scratch your head.

It's crazy that these coaches have all thes advanced stats + AI, and the decision makers still think it's a solid idea to leave Tolbert out on the field. Also, Flournoy plays on teams.

I don't mean to brag, but I just don't get it...

That's what I'm saying there must be something more in the background you're not seeing in practice things that they see may be something to do in the weight room I we don't know there must be a real reason because there is no other reason....

Times fans get falling in love with players like this and I remember Cedric Wilson and don't say they're different cedric Wilson looked like he was on his way to be a starter in this league had big games just like that stepped up in big moments he looks just like Flournoy but why is it when he left he never became a starter and kind of fizzled out?

you need to calm down on the what we see as fans and what they see, i'm not saying Tolbert is better than Flournoy but there's a reason that Flournoy has not elevated himself to taking more snaps away from him yet, yet , there's plenty of time he's under a rookie deal with us...

Here's a crazy scenario and you might end up finding out just like last year Tolbert was forced into a spot to be the number 2 wide receiver put up over 600 yards and seven touchdowns that's nothing to sneeze about when you're supposed to be lacking in talent.

right now, Flournpy has not been under that kind of pressure. We might be next year are you that confident that if we lose George Pickens that the Cowboys will go into the draft and draft another number two wide receiver that might need a little time to develop,

is Flournoy a clear number two?

Are you Ready to go all in because that might happen that scenario could happen next year at least for the first part of the year starting out....

 

[Pass2Run]

That's what I'm saying there must be something more in the background you're not seeing in practice things that they see may be something to do in the weight room I we don't know there must be a real reason because there is no other reason....

Times fans get falling in love with players like this and I remember Cedric Wilson and don't say they're different cedric Wilson looked like he was on his way to be a starter in this league had big games just like that stepped up in big moments he looks just like Flournoy but why is it when he left he never became a starter and kind of fizzled out?

you need to calm down on the what we see as fans and what they see, i'm not saying Tolbert is better than Flournoy but there's a reason that Flournoy has not elevated himself to taking more snaps away from him yet, yet , there's plenty of time he's under a rookie deal with us...

Here's a crazy scenario and you might end up finding out just like last year Tolbert was forced into a spot to be the number 2 wide receiver put up over 600 yards and seven touchdowns that's nothing to sneeze about when you're supposed to be lacking in talent.

right now, Flournpy has not been under that kind of pressure. We might be next year are you that confident that if we lose George Pickens that the Cowboys will go into the draft and draft another number two wide receiver that might need a little time to develop,

is Flournoy a clear number two?

Are you Ready to go all in because that might happen that scenario could happen next year at least for the first part of the year starting out....

No, that's not it. It's more like if Flournoy is not the number 3 that that means they are just being stubborn because of Tolbert's draft status.

The deal is, and any real football guy would tell you: when you have a guy as athletic and apparently quick to learn like Ryan Flournoy, over a middling to below middling guy like Tolbert, you go with that athleticism and coachability all day over an outfielder-turned-receiver.

Flournoy has proven he's ready for the role.

I like Tolbert. I just don't think he well-suited for what we're doing. And he's not dynamic enough after the catch. Runs routes well enough, but doesn't generate the separation I want in an offense.

You can get by with him at #3. But you can get by with another guy who likely has more upside.

You want to run the ball. But you want to be able to explode on a passing play at any given moment because that keeps them honest enough to run on them. It's a delicate balance. Flournoy is good in the run and pass game. That matters.

He also has like a 9.8 RAS. The knock on him coming out was that he came in small as a freshman, like Turpin small, and played at a D3 program.

That's one reason I've been so interested in the depth receivers. I think a few of those guys can play in the league with the right players, coach and scheme. It just depends on what the coach is trying to do and how the player develops.

Flournoy is the better option at 3 right now. Any real football guy would be able to see it too based on what he's out on film.

 

[Captain43Crash]

Fans feel a lot of ways but we don't get what we want we think James Houston should get 50% of the snaps that Sam Williams is getting they should cut his in half and give him the to Houston and he's not getting them we don't think he's a better player and yet we're not going to get our way the coaches feel what they feel for some strange reason and they know more than us and I'm going to trust there's a good reason for this...

I don't know what it is but they must need or want something and feel Tolbert needs to have those snaps.. I don't know what it is could be the blocking could be special teams I don't know what it is but i'm going to have to trust you must be a good reason.

You mentioned it could be the blocking in regards to Tolbert. Tolbert doesn’t block he stands in front of the defender for 1/10 of a second before he gets bullied straight down. Tolbert is as soft as a marshmallow!!!!

 

[cmoney23]

Just curious what y'all think. I'm all for getting the best players for your system on the field.

At this point, I think it's pretty clear Flournoy is developing and has a much higher ceiling than Tolbert.

As much as it hurts, I think you have to give Flournoy the nod at WR3 on the depth chart. He has earned it.

I could see them keeping Pickens at the X, Flournoy at the Y and, CeeDee at the Z. This will require more 11 personnel which we run 65% of the time.

 

[cowboyec]

i hope so.
he's earned it.

 

[Pass2Run]

I could see them keeping Pickens at the X, Flournoy at the Y and, CeeDee at the Z. This will require more 11 personnel which we run 65% of the time.

Right. Flournoy can also be an X, I believe. That's also why I like him more than Tolbert. You don't have to play Pickens, Lamb or Flournoy at any single position.

 

[StarW]

No, that's not it. It's more like if Flournoy is not the number 3 that that means they are just being stubborn because of Tolbert's draft status.

The deal is, and any real football guy would tell you: when you have a guy as athletic and apparently quick to learn like Ryan Flournoy, over a middling to below middling guy like Tolbert, you go with that athleticism and coachability all day over an outfielder-turned-receiver.

Flournoy has proven he's ready for the role.

I like Tolbert. I just don't think he well-suited for what we're doing. And he's not dynamic enough after the catch. Runs routes well enough, but doesn't generate the separation I want in an offense.

You can get by with him at #3. But you can get by with another guy who likely has more upside.

You want to run the ball. But you want to be able to explode on a passing play at any given moment because that keeps them honest enough to run on them. It's a delicate balance. Flournoy is good in the run and pass game. That matters.

He also has like a 9.8 RAS. The knock on him coming out was that he came in small as a freshman, like Turpin small, and played at a D3 program.

That's one reason I've been so interested in the depth receivers. I think a few of those guys can play in the league with the right players, coach and scheme. It just depends on what the coach is trying to do and how the player develops.

Flournoy is the better option at 3 right now. Any real football guy would be able to see it too based on what he's out on film.

Right? And bottom line is we all know Dak kick rear when boys are wide open. That's why I'm all about the the Turpin + Flournoy > Tolbert equation. It's going to be the normal look soon enough, because unlike Tolbert, they're normally open.

 

[StarW]

That's what I'm saying there must be something more in the background you're not seeing in practice things that they see may be something to do in the weight room I we don't know there must be a real reason because there is no other reason....

Times fans get falling in love with players like this and I remember Cedric Wilson and don't say they're different cedric Wilson looked like he was on his way to be a starter in this league had big games just like that stepped up in big moments he looks just like Flournoy but why is it when he left he never became a starter and kind of fizzled out?

you need to calm down on the what we see as fans and what they see, i'm not saying Tolbert is better than Flournoy but there's a reason that Flournoy has not elevated himself to taking more snaps away from him yet, yet , there's plenty of time he's under a rookie deal with us...

Here's a crazy scenario and you might end up finding out just like last year Tolbert was forced into a spot to be the number 2 wide receiver put up over 600 yards and seven touchdowns that's nothing to sneeze about when you're supposed to be lacking in talent.

right now, Flournpy has not been under that kind of pressure. We might be next year are you that confident that if we lose George Pickens that the Cowboys will go into the draft and draft another number two wide receiver that might need a little time to develop,

is Flournoy a clear number two?

Are you Ready to go all in because that might happen that scenario could happen next year at least for the first part of the year starting out....

Hey bro. Everyone else is talking WR3 here. You're off in left field talkin WR2. This ain't fantasy island.

Pickens has played hard and already earned WR2, and Lamb is WR1, and on top of that he's coming back this week. These are the constants. Now, you can can call them 1A and 1B in any rank you like for the sake of argument. We're all talking about how Flournoy / Turping needs to be WR3/4 in what ever order you want as long as Tolbert is your WR5.

1 Lamb/Pickens
2 Pickens/Lamb
3 Flournoy/Turpin
4 Turpin/Flournoy
5 Tolbert

Everyone's saying this is the common sense pecking order if we're looking at both on-field tape or the numerical data.

Also, the reason you can sneeze at Tolberts 600 yards is the exact same reason. His on-field tape matches the numerical data. You have to look at his overall number of snaps, overall targets, and overall receptions to targets to say if 600 is bad, good, or average. When it comes to efficiency it's def objectively below average for a WR2, which he was part of the year last year. And he def got a WR2 snap count statistically, which is the problem with just throwing the number 600 around.

When you take this kind of approach to your player evaluation, Flournoy is clearly levels above Tolbert in the ran and pass game. So I might sneeze a little bit if Tolbert's getting snaps over these superior WRs against Washington.

 

[Creeper]

I gave this question a little more thought and it occurred to me with this front office, anything is possible. I can just as easily see them cut Flournoy and try to sneak him onto the practice squad as I could see them retain him as WR3 or WR4.

Or they could trade him and leave Tolbert wasting space on the roster. That is my honest assessment of the Cowboys coaches and front office right now.

 

[blueblood70]

No, that's not it. It's more like if Flournoy is not the number 3 that that means they are just being stubborn because of Tolbert's draft status.

The deal is, and any real football guy would tell you: when you have a guy as athletic and apparently quick to learn like Ryan Flournoy, over a middling to below middling guy like Tolbert, you go with that athleticism and coachability all day over an outfielder-turned-receiver.

Flournoy has proven he's ready for the role.

I like Tolbert. I just don't think he well-suited for what we're doing. And he's not dynamic enough after the catch. Runs routes well enough, but doesn't generate the separation I want in an offense.

You can get by with him at #3. But you can get by with another guy who likely has more upside.

You want to run the ball. But you want to be able to explode on a passing play at any given moment because that keeps them honest enough to run on them. It's a delicate balance. Flournoy is good in the run and pass game. That matters.

He also has like a 9.8 RAS. The knock on him coming out was that he came in small as a freshman, like Turpin small, and played at a D3 program.

That's one reason I've been so interested in the depth receivers. I think a few of those guys can play in the league with the right players, coach and scheme. It just depends on what the coach is trying to do and how the player develops.

Flournoy is the better option at 3 right now. Any real football guy would be able to see it too based on what he's out on film.

We don't know that When are you gonna tell me that you somehow sat in on these meetings you're there at practice I mean you know everything you guys need to stop there has to be good reason and doesn't mean they're stubborn why would they use a lesser player it's not about money he's on a rookie contract it's not about draft status he wasn't really drafted that high. What exactly is it tell me you don't know so there has to be a reason

Get his chance but just like CED Wilson who everybody raved about and was sad left everybody wanted him to come back exactly what he knew in Miami what has he done since he left sometimes you just have to look at this and go maybe it was a system he was in and the fact that there was so much other good talent ahead of them that they were left being covered by one of the worst corners on the team and maybe in videos there's other reasons why Tolbert is in there I don't know....

Do me this favor why don't you go ask until then just stop complaining it's not going to change anything I think Turpin is going to end up getting more of those snaps now and I think he should he's one of those unique players with all that speed can run all those motions and stuff from the slot and the screens much better than Williams I prefer him to get more of the WR3 snaps so here we are but yes Flournoy is been impressive in the very very very small sample size..

He will get his shot I think next year.. I like him don't get me wrong but I've seen this story before with these backups and then they leave and never do anything anywhere else it tells me something I don't know what it is and it may not be the case here but be careful of overrating the guy that's being covered by CB4.. In last year literally Tolbert was the number two guy so he was being covered more by a better corner and still put up 600 yards and seven touchdowns...

i'm not saying that's why he's in there but some reason the coaches trust him..