When Will Mo Officially Be A Bust?

[Vintage]

In thirteen minutes, approximately.

 

[honyock]

I find this to be a fascinating discussion about Maryland. Dallas was trying to move out of the first slot but could not. Maryland was a pick by default.

Looking at that draft, there wasn't much to trade down for. Dallas picked up Harper at 12 and Kelvin Pritchett at 20 in the first round. Looking at that draft, there was not a huge amount of talent there.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/1991

Actually (and I had to find an article to verify this because I wasn't sure), the Cowboys traded UP to get the #1 pick that year. They trade 1st and 2nd round picks, and Ron Francis and Eugene Lockhart to New England for the #1 overall pick. I remember thinking it was odd at the time, since there wasn't really consensus best player in the draft that year. But I think Jimmy came out and said that they wanted to control the draft (they also had two more first round picks in addition to NE's #1), so they wanted that top pick.

I think they ended up pre-negotiating a team-friendly contract with Maryland prior to the draft so they got him much cheaper than a #1 would normally cost.

That draft was Jimmy/Jerry/whoever at their wheeling dealing best. They were all over the place. Here's the article that recaps the trades and players they got:

http://www.knowyourdallascowboys.co...ld-by-wheeling-and-dealing-in-the-1991-draft/

Before the draft, the Cowboys had traded Landry holdovers Ron Francis and Eugene Lockhart, along with first- and second-round picks, to the Patriots for the first overall pick in the draft. There was some discussion of the Cowboys using the pick to take Notre Dame receiver Rocket Ismail, but Dallas settled for Miami defensive tackle Russell Maryland.

The Cowboys still had two first-r0und picks left, and the team grabbed the high-jumping receiver Alvin Harper from Tennessee.

With the #20 pick overall, the Cowboys selected defensive tackle Kelvin Pritchett, but the team traded him to Detroit for picks in the second, third, and fourth rounds. Dallas used the second-round pick to take linebacker Dixon Edwards.

A trade with San Diego allowed the Cowboys to pick up linebacker Godfrey Miles. A previous trade with New Orleans for QB Steve Walsh gave the team a third-round pick with which Dallas took tackle Erik Williams.

Another trade gave the Cowboys a seventh-round pick. The choice: DT Leon Lett. The Cowboys even managed, for goodness sake, to pick up the best deep-snapper in the league by trading a seventh-round pick to the Raiders for Dale Hellestrae.

Okay, so the Cowboys didn’t trade their twelfth-rounder. That was a good thing, given that the Cowboys found CB Larry Brown with the 320th overall selection.

 

[AsthmaField]

And they went to a Super Bowl and an NFC Championship since we last did. I think I would take that.

Next time try a more futile franchise. It might make your argument a little better

You would take Atlanta's history over the Cowboys? Have at it.

Just please stop whining about the Cowboys front office structure. We all can recite your argument by heart.

 

[Alexander]

There's a rush to judgement on sports boards regarding players and draft picks that completely fails to take into account the fact that players benefit from NFL coaching and experience to develop over time. It's irrational. Similarly, players can get worse when they get paid or when expectations rise over time. To pretend a player is a static quantity from the moment he's drafted, or in his first or second seasons, for that matter, doesn't make any sense.

So what are similar examples of top ten players that were labeled as "busts" that ended up doing well, and let's be clear, at his position. Please do not bore me with Jim Plunkett inspirational stories. CBs usually show they have it or they bust hard, quickly.

 

[Brooksey]

Another solid football comment by you. It's difficult to keep my positing up to the level of insight you have for this sport.

Or...

At what point do you no longer have a butt since you LMAO in every post?

Well it is a pretty funny thing for a Cowboys fan to say. The negative spin to the title makes you laugh. The title could read When Will Mo Break out? One of the possibilities in your piece could be he doesn't and he may bust.

It seems as though you went out of your way to post a negative title, it's too obvious, just a heads up.

 

[Section446]

Already is, has been.

 

[Alexander]

You would take Atlanta's history over the Cowboys? Have at it.

I will absolutely take their history over the reign Jones has had since Johnson left. Without hesitation.

If that means putting up with some lousy seasons where the organization ultimately recognizes failure, starts over and does not spin it as just a function of bad luck, yes.

Being 8-8 is purgatory. If you do not eventually9 break through, it is just much failure as three years of 5-11 if it means you do not acknowledge the problems and correct them.

Just please stop whining about the Cowboys front office structure. We all can recite your argument by heart.

Stop whining. We know you are right. I got it.

 

[CCBoy]

I find this to be a fascinating discussion about Maryland. Dallas was trying to move out of the first slot but could not. Maryland was a pick by default.

Looking at that draft, there wasn't much to trade down for. Dallas picked up Harper at 12 and Kelvin Pritchett at 20 in the first round. Looking at that draft, there was not a huge amount of talent there.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/1991

Dallas moved up to the first slot with Maryland, although he was #8 on their draft board. Part of that was because they knew he could be negotiated to agree to a contract that gave Dallas his immediate participation in preseason organizational activities and a lowered value for his contract. They agreed to principal and his word to accept, while on the phone when on the clock. Another defensive tackle was taken at pick #20. That is kind of a haphazard affair...as the team, during the next year's draft, attempted to move up to the #3 draft position to acquire another defensive lineman.

So their efficiently in drafting off the proceeds of the Herchel Walker trade was questionable despite who they hit upon. To have moved up for who Jimmy targeted, it would have taken pick #13 and probably Michael Irvin.

 

[AsthmaField]

Actually (and I had to find an article to verify this because I wasn't sure), the Cowboys traded UP to get the #1 pick that year. They trade 1st and 2nd round picks, and Ron Francis and Eugene Lockhart to New England for the #1 overall pick. I remmber thinking it was odd at the time, since there wasn't really consensus best player in the draft that year. But I think Jimmy came out and said that they wanted to control the draft (they also had two more first round picks in addition to NE's #1), so they wanted that top pick.

I think they ended up pre-negotiating a team-friendly contract with Maryland prior to the draft so they got him much cheaper than a #1 would normally cost.

That draft was Jimmy/Jerry/whoever at their wheeling dealing best. They were all over the place. Here's the article that recaps the trades and players they got:

http://www.knowyourdallascowboys.co...ld-by-wheeling-and-dealing-in-the-1991-draft/

Actually, Dallas was counting on Raghib Ismail not going to the Canadian Football League that year. Jimmy really didn't think he'd do it, but he did. At that point, Johnson had made the mistake of already trading for the #1 overall pick, when Ismail was the only true talent worthy of going #1 overall. Once Ismail was out of the picture, Jimmy was stuck with the first pick and in order to save face I remember him talking about controlling the draft, etc.

Maryland was a nice player, but in no way was he worth the first overall pick. There really wasn't anyone worth that choice one Ismail chose the CFL.

 

[AsthmaField]

I will absolutely take their history over the reign Jones has had since Johnson left. Without hesitation.

If that means putting up with some lousy seasons where the organization ultimately recognizes failure, starts over and does not spin it as just a function of bad luck, yes.

Being 8-8 is purgatory. If you do not eventually9 break through, it is just much failure as three years of 5-11 if it means you do not acknowledge the problems and correct them.



Stop whining. We know you are right. I got it.

Well, at least you finally got the formatting figured out.

 

[Alexander]

Well, at least you finally got the formatting figured out.

I am racking up the "insults because I got nothing" points tonight.

 

[Vintage]

I am racking up the "insults because I got nothing" points tonight.

He is speaking your language. Probably figured it would help.

 

[AsthmaField]

I am racking up the "insults because I got nothing" points tonight.

Yes you are, nice job.

But really, it wasn't fair to point out the formatting issue. That has absolutely nothing to do with football or our debate. I apologize.

 

[Vintage]

In thirteen minutes, approximately.

..... Aaaaaaaand....... Bust.

 

[CCBoy]

And they went to a Super Bowl and an NFC Championship since we last did. I think I would take that.

Next time try a more futile franchise. It might make your argument a little better

Yeppir, take a high priced player and before his third season pack his bags and continue an even faster method of churning a roster...and do it in the name of justice.

 

[BAZ]

So what seventh rounders would you have traded for Aikman? The risk is higher for the price paid, but to say quantity beats quality harkens back to the 2009 draft which destroys your argument.

Now you are just talkin' crazy, I didn't mention Aikman or a high pick like that at all, What I actually said was this team has more success when digging deeper in the draft. You can argue it leads to 8-8, but when they have drafted down its been been better than drafting up. Dez is the exception but that was a minimal move. so far Claiboure and Lawrence hasn't paid off. This team has had more players stick in the later rounds over the last few years. Apart from when they got Smith, who was a non mover. 2009 was a special teams draft that the whole league learned from. Nobodys defending that.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Now you are just talkin' crazy, I didn't mention Aikman or a high pick like that at all, What I actually said was this team has more success when digging deeper in the draft. You can argue it leads to 8-8, but when they have drafted down its been been better than drafting up. Dez is the exception but that was a minimal move. so far Claiboure and Lawrence hasn't paid off. This team has had more players stick in the later rounds over the last few years. Apart from when they got Smith, who was a non mover. 2009 was a special teams draft that the whole league learned from. Nobodys defending that.

I'd suggest you rediscover Jimmy's drafts and see he mostly drafted up.

 

[Idgit]

So what are similar examples of top ten players that were labeled as "busts" that ended up doing well, and let's be clear, at his position. Please do not bore me with Jim Plunkett inspirational stories. CBs usually show they have it or they bust hard, quickly.

I'm not sure why it matters that they are drafted in the top-10 since the point is only that some players need time to develop at their positions. I'm also not sure that your argument that CBs 'usually show they have it or they bust hard' is very scientific. But, since you ask, I'd go with maybe Quentin Jammer (5) or Carlos Rogers (9) in the top-10.

Nnamdi Asomugha is maybe the best example of a first round guy who played fairly sparingly early and still developed into a really good player.

 

[Brooksey]

False bravado is doing something you have never done before (play aggressively) and then loudly announcing success.

If you want to choose a better descriptive for what he has been doing in camp, go right ahead. But it is hard to sell it as genuine.

It is almost like Wade Phillips walking on the practice field and making players run gassers. You cannot just suddenly change what you normally do without coming off as fake.

False Bravado would suggest he's portraying himself as more confident than he really is as a defense mechanism.

If that were the case he wouldn't be making the plays for real. He wasn't just talking but walking the walk in practice and in the Raiders scrimmage.

That's not false bravado. That's the 2014 version of Mo Claiborne. That's exactly what we want to see.

He's pumped, give the guy a chance this year.

 

[AsthmaField]

He is speaking your language. Probably figured it would help.

Truthfully, I get tired of the same old argument and don't have the desire to go back and forth with him for an hour. It is useless to point out that only Alex and his minions could look at 3 seasons of 8-8 and 3 straight chances to win and go into the playoffs as a whole lot worse than going 3-13 and sucking outright.

I mean honestly, we're all just killing time on here, but that seems even more useless.

So I just give him an insult because I got nothing.