When your defense is historically bad, why punt?

[Common Sense]

Check out this Grantland video about a high school football program in Arkansas that only kicks onside kicks and goes for it every fourth down:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1849595-high-school-coach-who-never-punts-explains-his-strategy

 

[bark]

Have u watched us on 3rd down? I can't imagine we'd be better on 4 th

 

[Venger]

Have u watched us on 3rd down? I can't imagine we'd be better on 4 th

/thread

 

[mitchell2254]

That and in the video he said they can only punt about 30 yards. Big difference in 30 and 50 yards of field position. Now if our punter was as bad as our D..

 

[17yearsandcounting]

This is kind of like what Chip Kelly did at Oregon.

 

[Hoofbite]

The only saving grace for the defense is the fact that they've been very good at generating turnovers.

Shorter fields means less plays ran by the opponent. Less plays ran by opposing offenses likely means fewer chances to take the ball away. If the other team is going to score no matter where they start on the field, probably better off to have them start further back just to give the defense as many chances as possible to get one of those life savers they've been coming up with.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

The only saving grace for the defense is the fact that they've been very good at generating turnovers.

Shorter fields means less plays ran by the opponent. Less plays ran by opposing offenses likely means fewer chances to take the ball away. If the other team is going to score no matter where they start on the field, probably better off to have them start further back just to give the defense as many chances as possible to get one of those life savers they've been coming up with.

This.

In fact, it's the only reason the Cowboys are .500. If the Cowboys are going to make the playoffs this year, the team that comes out of the bye must be different than the team that went into it.

 

[dragon_mikal]

Because it's..................common sense?

Hehehehe...

 

[T-RO]

We threw a shutout on the Saint's punter last Sunday. We forced zero punts and zero turnovers. So it's an absolute scientific fact that we would have been 100 times better off never punting and onside-kicking every time. In that game.

At some level of defensive efficacy the strategy stops making sense. But my conviction is that you let the math tell you where that is.

Coaches, players, gms are more about tradition and CYA. They are even more afraid of being embarrassed or criticized than they are of losing.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

We threw a shutout on the Saint's punter last Sunday. We forced zero punts and zero turnovers. So it's an absolute scientific fact that we would have been 100 times better off never punting and onside-kicking every time. In that game.

At some level of defensive efficacy the strategy stops making sense. But my conviction is that you let the math tell you where that is.

Coaches, players, gms are more about tradition and CYA. They are even more afraid of being embarrassed or criticized than they are of losing.

The Cowboys forced a punt on the Saints first drive.

It would be helpful if you qualified "better off." Not punting is no guarantee the point spread would be any smaller.

 

[links18]

Could we just use the phrase "historibad" to describe our defense from now on?

 

[Hoofbite]

The Cowboys forced a punt on the Saints first drive.

It would be helpful if you qualified "better off." Not punting is no guarantee the point spread would be any smaller.

Didn't you read where he said it was a "scientific fact". That means they've done science on this stuff and that his statement holds true under all conditions, and therefore cannot be refuted.

 

[Clove]

Check out this Grantland video about a high school football program in Arkansas that only kicks onside kicks and goes for it every fourth down:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1849595-high-school-coach-who-never-punts-explains-his-strategy

Our defense does stink, but don't knowingly allow teams to pile up points super easy. That's just saying you quit, and if you're going to do that, just fire the coordinator.

 

[Nightman]

Check out this Grantland video about a high school football program in Arkansas that only kicks onside kicks and goes for it every fourth down:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1849595-high-school-coach-who-never-punts-explains-his-strategy

You have to commit to this 100% or it doesn't work. You can't pick and choose when to use it. It also works for him because his teams average like 6yd per play on offense and his punters generally stink. It is an interesting take on football, emphasizing keeping the ball over field position. I agree with the idea of going for any 4th downs in the opponents territory over punting. The percentage rates for scoring go way up opposed to the minimal defensive gains of field position.

 

[cowboys1981]

The only saving grace for the defense is the fact that they've been very good at generating turnovers.

Shorter fields means less plays ran by the opponent. Less plays ran by opposing offenses likely means fewer chances to take the ball away. If the other team is going to score no matter where they start on the field, probably better off to have them start further back just to give the defense as many chances as possible to get one of those life savers they've been coming up with.

I love the TO's, but we need to get some points off of it. We need to reward our defense. Despite of what has happened I love how we're going for that strip on every tackle attempt and I love seeing Dlinemen 15 yards down the field making tackles.

 

[Hoofbite]

The only thing you are going to do by never punting and always onside kicking is arrive at your inevitable conclusion faster.

If you can't stop the other team no matter what, you'll be blown out by halftime instead of blown out in the 3rd quarter. You aren't going to convert them all and probably wouldn't even convert a good number of them. Any team that could convert a good percentage of 4th down attempts is likely a team that wouldn't have to in the first place.

Recovery rates for onside kicks are so low that you'd basically be handing over points every time you scored.

Stuff like this should be left at the lower levels. There's a reason why NFL teams don't run those plays where the QB takes a weird snap and starts asking the sideline for a new ball before sprinting to the endzone as the defense stands there as confused as they would be if someone were speaking Mandarin to them.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

The only thing you are going to do by never punting and always onside kicking is arrive at your inevitable conclusion faster.

If you can't stop the other team no matter what, you'll be blown out by halftime instead of blown out in the 3rd quarter. You aren't going to convert them all and probably wouldn't even convert a good number of them. Any team that could convert a good percentage of 4th down attempts is likely a team that wouldn't have to in the first place.

Recovery rates for onside kicks are so low that you'd basically be handing over points every time you scored.

Stuff like this should be left at the lower levels. There's a reason why NFL teams don't run those plays where the QB takes a weird snap and starts asking the sideline for a new ball before sprinting to the endzone as the defense stands there as confused as they would be if someone were speaking Mandarin to them.

This is what we call a priori reasoning.

It's not quite empirical evidence, but it can be just as valuable.

 

[xwalker]

Check out this Grantland vide

Lateo about a high school football program in Arkansas that only kicks onside kicks and goes for it every fourth down:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1849595-high-school-coach-who-never-punts-explains-his-strategy

Good question.

Later in that game they should have gone for it on 4th down if it was less than about 5 yards. If you start with a 3rd and 5 and fail, then going for it on 4th obviously doubles your chance of converting.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Not that it happens a lot, but you know it's got to be demoralizing when they string together a few onside kicks on you...

 

[JoeyBoy718]

You have to commit to this 100% or it doesn't work. You can't pick and choose when to use it. It also works for him because his teams average like 6yd per play on offense and his punters generally stink. It is an interesting take on football, emphasizing keeping the ball over field position. I agree with the idea of going for any 4th downs in the opponents territory over punting. The percentage rates for scoring go way up opposed to the minimal defensive gains of field position.

I don't really agree with this. If you have a good punter, going for it when you're on the opponent's side of the field is stupid. We lost the Kansas City game because they punted every team they were slightly out of field goal range and their punter put us near our goal line almost every single time. As good as KC's defense is, their punter won that game for them.