Where would you rank Dak?

[bsbellomy]

Slight tweek after taking a bigger look at Foles and Cam.

1.Brady
2. Mahomes
3. Rodgers
4. Wilson
5. Brees
6. Big Ben
7. Luck
8. Rivers
9. Ryan
10. Wentz
11. Mayfield
12. Watson
13. Cousins
14. Stafford
15. Dak
16. Cam
17. Foles.

Seems like consensus is 14-17. Middle of the pack Dak at your service!

 

[percyhoward]

This thread looks like a good place for these...

Passer Rating
target 10+ yards

Brees 121.7
Ryan 119.6
Mahomes 119.3

Carr 101.5
Goff 100.9
Prescott 100.7

Newton 83.9
Winston 82.9
Trubisky 82.2

That's every attempt thrown beyond 9 yards past the line of scrimmage in 2018.

If you're curious about the number of 10+yard attempts of the 9 QB listed, Dak ranked 5th, ahead of Newton, Trubisky, Brees, and Carr.

Dak got a good bump from Cooper's arrival in most statistical categories, and this one is no different. Looking at the above list as three separate tiers, the acquisition of Cooper moved Dak up about 3/4 of a tier. His passer rating on 10+yard throws was 91.6 before the trade, 105.6 after.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Lord, How many posts a day can this board discuss good Dak verses bad Dak ? Although it does prove to be very entertaining for non Cowboys fans.

Speak for yourself.
If you are indignant, tell Jerry.
But dont clutter here, too, with whiny protestations.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

Seems like consensus is 14-17. Middle of the pack Dak at your service!

Yep. He is (so far) a mid-tier QB with phenomenal intangibles.
He's around a top-15 QB that can potentially improve into that 10-12 range.
IMO, the top handful of QBs can carry their teams into playoff contention annually.
The rest (including Dak) need significantly more help to do so. Like Diehardblues mentioned a while back, what they actually do with their supporting cast says a lot about them, though.
So far Prescott has won his division two years out of three with his and likely would have made the playoffs each of his three years if not for Zeke's suspension.
It is a TEAM game, but I don't believe we make the playoffs at all without him.
Doesn't mean I won't critique his flaws, but I do have to recognize his strengths and skill, because he is pretty good.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I am LOL at all these lists that have Watson in the top 10.

Dude was straight up trash against the Colts in the playoffs, at home...….dude had right at 50 pass attempts and barely completed more than half and ended the game with a QB rating in the 60s. If Dak played like that in a playoff game, Cowboy fans would be waiting outside the stadium to pelt him with rotten eggs.

And some you guys got Watson in the top 10 in the entire league with Dak in the low 20s...…………...WOW...……………...

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Middle of the pack. Mediocre. Cowboys have good personnel. But, as so far as QB, they are a Jaguar with a Chevy engine.

 

[Captain-Crash]

A better question would be what quarterback wouldn't look good with the talent we have. Who would not have looked good on that 2016 team? go

 

[HungryLion]

This thread looks like a good place for these...

Passer Rating
target 10+ yards

Brees 121.7
Ryan 119.6
Mahomes 119.3

Carr 101.5
Goff 100.9
Prescott 100.7

Newton 83.9
Winston 82.9
Trubisky 82.2

That's every attempt thrown beyond 9 yards past the line of scrimmage in 2018.

If you're curious about the number of 10+yard attempts of the 9 QB listed, Dak ranked 5th, ahead of Newton, Trubisky, Brees, and Carr.

Dak got a good bump from Cooper's arrival in most statistical categories, and this one is no different. Looking at the above list as three separate tiers, the acquisition of Cooper moved Dak up about 3/4 of a tier. His passer rating on 10+yard throws was 91.6 before the trade, 105.6 after.

So basically, Dak is a top game 10 QB at throwing beyond 9 yards? Not just a check down king.

 

[percyhoward]

So basically, Dak is a top game 10 QB at throwing beyond 9 yards? Not just a check down king.

You're right that he's not a check down king, but that's not the full list -- just a sample showing three different tiers of QB.

Here's the full list.

 

[HungryLion]

You're right that he's not a check down king, but that's not the full list -- just a sample showing three different tiers of QB.

Here's the full list.

Oh ok. That makes sense.

 

[jnday]

HOF level studs who can win games near single-handedly.
1. Healthy Godgers
2. Mahomes
3. Brees
4. Wilson
5. Brady

Guys who elevate their surrounding talent, who can either take a bad situation and make it look good or take a great situation and tear it up.
6. Luck
7. Rivers
8. Big Ben
9. Watson
10. Newton
11. Mayfield

"Executers", who can make all the throws but generally play to the level of talent around them.
12. Wentz
13. Stafford
14. Ryan
15. Cousins

Propped up: dudes who start getting dicey on the regular throws. Very dependent on surrounding talent to support them, although they can look much better than they are in the right scheme or situation.
16. Dak
17. Mariota
18. Goff
19. Foles
20. Winston
21. Carr
22. Dalton
23. Trubisky

Scrubs: Will likely struggle no matter what their surrounding talent looks like, teams should be looking to replace them ASAP. One year stopgaps at best.
24. Fitzpatrick
25. Flacco
26. Keenum
27. Eli
28. Colt McCoy


Didn't get a fair shake, or haven't seen enough snaps to make a judgement
Garappolo
Darnold
Rosen
Allen
Lamar Jackson

This is as accurate as any ranking that I have seen.

 

[pansophy]

This thread looks like a good place for these...

Passer Rating
target 10+ yards

Brees 121.7
Ryan 119.6
Mahomes 119.3

Carr 101.5
Goff 100.9
Prescott 100.7

Newton 83.9
Winston 82.9
Trubisky 82.2

That's every attempt thrown beyond 9 yards past the line of scrimmage in 2018.

If you're curious about the number of 10+yard attempts of the 9 QB listed, Dak ranked 5th, ahead of Newton, Trubisky, Brees, and Carr.

Dak got a good bump from Cooper's arrival in most statistical categories, and this one is no different. Looking at the above list as three separate tiers, the acquisition of Cooper moved Dak up about 3/4 of a tier. His passer rating on 10+yard throws was 91.6 before the trade, 105.6 after.

How many of those passes are on 1st and 2nd down when defenses are keying on stopping the leagues leading rusher? Dak is in the bottom third of the league on 3rd and long success when everyone knows we have to pass.

 

[Sarge]

15ish.

 

[WillieBeamen]

I am LOL at all these lists that have Watson in the top 10.

Dude was straight up trash against the Colts in the playoffs, at home...….dude had right at 50 pass attempts and barely completed more than half and ended the game with a QB rating in the 60s. If Dak played like that in a playoff game, Cowboy fans would be waiting outside the stadium to pelt him with rotten eggs.

And some you guys got Watson in the top 10 in the entire league with Dak in the low 20s...…………...WOW...……………...

Watson is significantly better than Dak


Lets not act like Dakota didnt look absolutely pathetic against that same team a few weeks prior.



We all scored as many points as him that day

 

[percyhoward]

How many of those passes are on 1st and 2nd down when defenses are keying on stopping the leagues leading rusher?

No idea, because PFF doesn't have that info. PFR does, but with different parameters (15+yards).

That's not a comprehensive list, by the way. The full list is here.

 

[pansophy]

No idea, because PFF doesn't have that info. PFR does, but with different parameters (15+yards).

That's not a comprehensive list, by the way. The full list is here.

Okay, so by your list he is ranked 14th. I don't have playoff data and it isn't clear to me what plays they are filtering out. On all plays having passes greater than 9 yards, I have him at 15th with a passer rating of 95.7. I actually have him at 14th on 3rd down as well with a passer rating of 92.1, so not really a drop off passer rating wise.

After Cooper joins the team his passer rating jumps to 2nd in the league at 117.3 on passes greater than 9 yards on 3rd down, though we still ranked 23rd on 3rd down conversion on 3rd and 8+ yards even with Cooper.

We'll see. I keep hoping we started to see him turn the corner at the end of last year. Even in the playoff loss his QBR was 80+ -- hard to be upset about that especially after giving up 250+ yards on the ground. I just worry about the rush to pay him, but hopefully we look back and say it was a bargain.

I'm okay with Dak. We could do a lot worse, and have in the past. Just get annoyed by all the Dak is elite threads because it isn't an elite passer, at least not yet.

P.S. all the data is available from 2009 on so if you know R at all you could be looking at this data yourself.

https://www.rdocumentation.org/packages/nflscrapR/versions/1.4.0

 

[percyhoward]

Okay, so by your list he is ranked 14th. I don't have playoff data and it isn't clear to me what plays they are filtering out. On all plays having passes greater than 9 yards, I have him at 15th with a passer rating of 95.7. I actually have him at 14th on 3rd down as well with a passer rating of 92.1, so not really a drop off passer rating wise.

After Cooper joins the team his passer rating jumps to 2nd in the league at 117.3 on passes greater than 9 yards on 3rd down, though we still ranked 23rd on 3rd down conversion on 3rd and 8+ yards even with Cooper.

We'll see. I keep hoping we started to see him turn the corner at the end of last year. Even in the playoff loss his QBR was 80+ -- hard to be upset about that especially after giving up 250+ yards on the ground. I just worry about the rush to pay him, but hopefully we look back and say it was a bargain.

I'm okay with Dak. We could do a lot worse, and have in the past. Just get annoyed by all the Dak is elite threads because it isn't an elite passer, at least not yet.

P.S. all the data is available from 2009 on so if you know R at all you could be looking at this data yourself.

https://www.rdocumentation.org/packages/nflscrapR/versions/1.4.0

Much appreciated. Maybe I'll get into it someday, but I'm basically an old dog.

 

[csirl]

Somewhere between 30 & 40. Would be a solid no. 2 on most teams.

 

[aaev84]

Probly are. If the chiefs sustain injuries and suspensions next year and more is left on his shoulders we will see. Same with watson. I guess we was injured or something and only played about 7 games last year. It will be interesting to see if they have the second year slump or continue to play at a high level.

We have a pretty descent look at Dak. I wouldn’t mind either way if they want to sign him now or wait. I think he will be better this year. Having a healthier O-Line and another year with the starting WR will help. I don’t think he has hit his ceiling yet. Just not sure how much further up he will go.

Who did the Chiefs have besides Kelce that was considered elite prior to last year?

 

[glimmerman]

Who did the Chiefs have besides Kelce that was considered elite prior to last year?

He had watkins and hill.. hunt had a pretty good year. And a pretty good defense.