Where's the nasty?

[The Natural]

Richard Seymour and Rodney Harrison.

and those guys were leaders

 

[tyke1doe]

Not even close. We became America's Team because we were always "next years champions." America loves the underdog. Losing against the Packers then was like losing to the Patriots of the last decade.

America loved our "toughness" and our "spirit" and once we won, they loved us even more. America's Team was born. We were 180 degrees from anything "soft" or "considerate" when we stepped on the field.

Bob Lily throwing his helmet like 40 yards after a loss.... yep, that was consummate good sportsmanship on display. Not even close. Remember Haley? Try pushing him around and he would go for the throat... literally as well as figuratively. Ah, those were days. Those were the type of players (and those were the type of attitudes they brought) who made us champions.

But how did throwing one's helmet after a game or going for the throat - whatever that means - make us a championship team?

Their play on the field made them a championship team.

The Cowboys simply aren't a very talented team - not across the board. That's why they lose close games.

 

[Hostile]

Richard Seymour and Rodney Harrison.

Rodney Harrison joined them in 2003.

 

[batman36]

IMO nasty does not mean dirty . Randy White , Cliff Harris and Erik Williams were nasty players . I wouldn't call them dirty . Hos , I am going to ask you in a respectfull way . Don't you think this team would benefit from having players with attitudes like I listed ? I think it would make a world of difference . These players were respected . This patting players on the butt while helping them off the ground irks me to no end .

This, sir, is correct! Dirty play should never be tolerated, but a bit of nastiness is okay, and I would submit, even a bit of motivation to ones' teammates. Dominant defense's generally play with a bit of nastiness, and not necessarilly dirty play. See 1985-'87 Bears,1970's Steelers, 1981-'87 Giants and the Baltimore Ravens for what seems to be an eternity.

 

[camelboy]

Who would be ok with a straight trade
Ware for Suggs

Suggs has some nasty...

 

[Cowboyz88]

Can people really not grasp the concept of the difference in demeanors and/or approach between Randy White (read: nasty or intense) and Demarcus Ware?

 

[yimyammer]

Which comes first, the nasty or the winning?

 

[tyke1doe]

Can people really not grasp the concept of the difference in demeanors and/or approach between Randy White (read: nasty or intense) and Demarcus Ware?

I think we can. The problem is how do you know that demeanor was the factor in the Cowboys winning with White and not winning with Ware?

That's very hard to quantify.

It's kind of like the quarterback debate. We point to Harrison and White and Haley and Lott because they won Super Bowls. Would we really be pointing to those guys if they weren't a part of Super Bowl winning teams?

Similarly, we downplay very good quarterbacks who don't win Super Bowls because Super Bowl wins seem to validate whether someone is great.

I agree with you to a degree. I think the Cowboys are soft mentally. But that's just my opinion. I don't know how to quantify that in any measureable way. And I doubt those who talk about us needing nasty players know how to qualify that either to the degree they can say that nastiness factor wins games.

 

[Cowboyz88]

I think we can. The problem is how do you know that demeanor was the factor in the Cowboys winning with White and not winning with Ware?

That's very hard to quantify.

It's kind of like the quarterback debate. We point to Harrison and White and Haley and Lott because they won Super Bowls. Would we really be pointing to those guys if they weren't a part of Super Bowl winning teams?

Similarly, we downplay very good quarterbacks who don't win Super Bowls because Super Bowl wins seem to validate whether someone is great.

I agree with you to a degree. I think the Cowboys are soft mentally. But that's just my opinion. I don't know how to quantify that in any measureable way. And I doubt those who talk about us needing nasty players know how to qualify that either to the degree they can say that nastiness factor wins games.

To me, I think it's evolutionary process.

Change the soft, go-thru-the-motions, defeatist mindset of this team by mixing in a bit of nasty, tough as nails, invincible, fight-til-the-end mindset and I think that more consistent winning follows.

If you could plug vintage Randy White or Bob Lilly into today's team and I'm certain that Jenkins phantom tackles, Newman moping (just as examples) and double-digit comeback losses quickly come to an end.

 

[risco]

who was the Patriots' nasty when they were winning 3 out of 4?

Rodney Harrison, Tedy Bruschi, Willie Mcginest- just to name a few.... Every SB team has a couple rough neck guys on the team.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

I think Lee has a mean streak in him.

 

[Hostile]

Can people really not grasp the concept of the difference in demeanors and/or approach between Randy White (read: nasty or intense) and Demarcus Ware?

Can people really not grasp that Ware is effective, even disruptive? Can people not grasp that Bob Lilly was not nasty but was impossible to stop? Can people not grasp that Merlin Olsen was the same? Can people not grasp that Reggie White was the same?

There are a litany of guys who have played the NFL at levels few can only dream about without being nasty or dirty. It isn't a requirement for success.

The example of Harrison was a poor one given how he has hurt his team by a suspension. Suh can potentially hurt his team if he doesn't dial back.

Why would we or should we want guys who play to the point that they draw flags and suspensions? That has not been adequately addressed even one time yet.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Can people really not grasp that Ware is effective, even disruptive? Can people not grasp that Bob Lilly was not nasty but was impossible to stop? Can people not grasp that Merlin Olsen was the same? Can people not grasp that Reggie White was the same?

There are a litany of guys who have played the NFL at levels few can only dream about without being nasty or dirty. It isn't a requirement for success.

The example of Harrison was a poor one given how he has hurt his team by a suspension. Suh can potentially hurt his team if he doesn't dial back.

Why would we or should we want guys who play to the point that they draw flags and suspensions? That has not been adequately addressed even one time yet.

As I said before, I love Ware and recognize what he brings to the team in terms of scheme...I just wish he had another level of grit, intensity or whatever word fits.

I don't want dirty, at all.

I'm just a bit too young to recall Lilly and Olsen, although I am greatly aware (thanks to my Cowboys-loving grandfather and father) of their greatness, but I definitely would say that Mr. White had that slight, extra level of tenacity that Ware doesn't and it's that intangible that I think the team desperately needs.

 

[Hostile]

As I said before, I love Ware and recognize what he brings to the team in terms of scheme...I just wish he had another level of grit, intensity or whatever word fits.

I don't want dirty, at all.

I'm just a bit too young to recall Lilly and Olsen, although I am greatly aware (thanks to my Cowboys-loving grandfather and father) of their greatness, but I definitely would say that Mr. White had that slight, extra level of tenacity that Ware doesn't and it's that intangible that I think the team desperately needs.

I don't think we need it in an era where referees enjoy throwing flags and the NFL enjoys fines and suspensions. I don't mind a little fire, but the example cited as the premise of the thread was a guy who is dirty and who likely just cost his team their division due to a suspension.

No thanks.

 

[RoboQB]

Who would be ok with a straight trade
Ware for Suggs

Suggs has some nasty...

As a Cowboys fan married to a Ravens fans, I see nearly all of the Ravens games... Don't get me wrong. I love DWare as a player but... T-Sizzle, as he likes to refer to himself, is a freakin' Monster... I swear he's not human.

I often joke that the Ravens lock him in a cage until 1 hour before gametime.

So, yes, I would take that trade any day and twice on Sunday.

 

[camelboy]

As a Cowboys fan married to a Ravens fans, I see nearly all of the Ravens games... Don't get me wrong. I love DWare as a player but... T-Sizzle, as he likes to refer to himself, is a freakin' Monster... I swear he's not human.

I often joke that the Ravens lock him in a cage until 1 hour before gametime.

So, yes, I would take that trade any day and twice on Sunday.

Me too. I love DWare but he is too nice to build a nasty scary defense around him.. People keep talking about Romo being starter for years now with no results and forget DWare falls in the same column if we want to be fair..

Just the fact the LEE is the defense play caller on field on his first year as starter and no Ware tells me Ware is a FOLLOWER ..

Give me T-Sizzle any time any day

 

[Trendnet]

Me too. I love DWare but he is too nice to build a nasty scary defense around him.. People keep talking about Romo being starter for years now with no results and forget DWare falls in the same column if we want to be fair..

Just the fact the LEE is the defense play caller on field on his first year as starter and no Ware tells me Ware is a FOLLOWER ..

Give me T-Sizzle any time any day

How many super bowl rings does "T-Sizzle" have again?

 

[birdwells1]

Can people really not grasp that Ware is effective, even disruptive? Can people not grasp that Bob Lilly was not nasty but was impossible to stop? Can people not grasp that Merlin Olsen was the same? Can people not grasp that Reggie White was the same?

There are a litany of guys who have played the NFL at levels few can only dream about without being nasty or dirty. It isn't a requirement for success.

The example of Harrison was a poor one given how he has hurt his team by a suspension. Suh can potentially hurt his team if he doesn't dial back.

Why would we or should we want guys who play to the point that they draw flags and suspensions? That has not been adequately addressed even one time yet.

Hos if you want a friendly, patting Vick on the back, help Jacobs up, no retaliation for dancing on the star defense then I guess we're just different.

You were probably were mad at Teague for the to/star incident because he drew a flag.

 

[Hostile]

Hos if you want a friendly, patting Vick on the back, help Jacobs up, no retaliation for dancing on the star defense then I guess we're just different.

You were probably were mad at Teague for the to/star incident because he drew a flag.

No I wasn't. I still revere Teague.

Every time I mention Jacobs on the star what do you guys say? "Stop him from scoring."

Well, which is it? Make up your mind.

I am telling you that I would not take Harrison because of penalties, fines, and SUSPENSIONS. The Steelers just lost a chance to take their division because he had to sit a game. Is that worth the hits he delivers to you?

It isn't to me. Especially to a scrub QB on a team drafting in the top 5.

 

[birdwells1]

No I wasn't. I still revere Teague.

Every time I mention Jacobs on the star what do you guys say? "Stop him from scoring."

Well, which is it? Make up your mind.

I am telling you that I would not take Harrison because of penalties, fines, and SUSPENSIONS. The Steelers just lost a chance to take their division because he had to sit a game. Is that worth the hits he delivers to you?

It isn't to me. Especially to a scrub QB on a team drafting in the top 5.

He is also the face of a defense that has won 2 and been in 3 and his play against the cardinals may have been the difference in the game.

You keep bringing up flags and suspension like that's the only he brings to the table.

I got a fact for you, before the no-gb championship game, saints defenders were told to hit Favre everything they could penalty or not. They figured if they could make him uncomfortable then it was worth a few 15 yarders and it worked. Sometime you need to send a message to rest of the league, that you're not a soft team